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Post by treguiers on Nov 26, 2011 12:41:04 GMT -5
Would love to know what the general opinion is on the new Musican game changer.......should we all hang up our soldering Irons?
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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 26, 2011 12:59:30 GMT -5
Holy frack!
It's pretty cool, though it seems to only rewire the pickup connections themselves. There's a distinct lack of broadbucker tones, for example. I suppose it could be expanded to include pots, caps, etc.
I think we're safe, though. At least until this system is as cheap as a handful of switches. Then I'm gonna buy several!
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Post by cynical1 on Nov 26, 2011 14:13:20 GMT -5
I can see this being useful in the design phase. Especially with trying out different pickups from different manufacturers or model lines.
It could also be handy for a builder when doing a survey of his customer to zero in on what tones they find most useful for their style when designing a custom guitar.
This demo highlights one of the more common mistakes most people make when employing a computer as part of their solution. They use a laptop. This loses them major credibility points with me.
Having been in IT for 20+ years I can tell you that the only thing a laptop is good for is running non-critical apps in a portable setting...they're very handy for reading your e-mail in the commode... Relying upon them in a critical application or situation is inviting disaster. It is not a question of IF it will fail catastrophically, but a question of WHEN. Ask SG.
There are other things that raise my eyebrows:
Power: 3 AA Batteries for ~100 hours of live play
USB powered when in use (Note: USB does not recharge batteries)
Battery life is typical, but relying on a USB cable to stay in place in this guitar is living in a fools paradise. You reach for a cigarette and that cable is coming out.
I also have to wonder if the saved presets remain when changing the batteries. Probably just burns to an EEPROM, but I'm still curious.
Neck Finish:
Gunstock oil and hand-rubbed special wax blend
Don't get me started with an oil finish on a guitar neck...
And it seems to come with a 25-1/2" Strat scale only with a 12" radius...interesting combination.
It does seem to offer a piezo option through a separate jack. The details on this system on their website are mostly marketing federgarb with little technical or functional data provided. Guess we know who they're trying to market this thing to.
I can see where this would be useful in a studio setting. But it seems to me to be begging for something to go wrong in a live setting.
All in all it's a cool little toy. However, the price seems a bit steep for a guitar with Dimarzio pickups in it... The guitar coming in a twin humbucker or humbucker-single-humbucker coil configuration with a hardtail bridge model for $3,250 and a tremolo bridge model for $3,350. The twin humbucker bass model will retail for $3,250. These are retail prices, but it's still going to cost more then a few coins at the slash and burn websellers.
I strikes me as one more take on digitizing an analog device. Will it catch on? Not until the Chinese pirate the design and sell it for $200.00.
I think I'll save my $3K and use it to buy a lot of pots, switches and wire.
I think we're safe.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by JohnH on Nov 26, 2011 15:48:52 GMT -5
It would be pretty easy to follow through further in a couple of ways:
Seemless integration with an amp/FX program such as Amplitube, so with one selection, you could call up a single coil neck pup with a tube screamer into a Fender Twin etc
Programable presets on the guitar - so the PC interface is only needed for setting up. Im sure Ive seen that from them on another vid
Its all very clever, but I think it is a hard sell because most players are not interested or understanding of all those options. Also, particularly in a high priced guitar, the instruments that people wish to own are the classic designs, not the new technology. Its different in that respect to many other fields of product design. Compare for example,
A reissue of a 1958 Les Paul - lots of people want this and current models are essentially unchanged. They keep selling while new hi tech versions do not take off
A reconstruction of a 1960's sports car. Specialist interest, a very small part of total market however
A TV or a computer with a design older than 5 years - cant even be given away
Interesting though, back to guitars, modelling technology has taken off, but not inside the guitar. You can still play an instrument with a simple classic design through a pod. There's something about the guitar itself which most players are very conservative about.
John
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Post by treguiers on Nov 26, 2011 20:30:34 GMT -5
interesting guitar. but give me your hss strat design anyday john. are the pup an intregal part of the design. could you throw in a couple of kinsmans or duncans etc into the guitar and still get it to function or are you stuck with musicman pup.
I had to replace the feul filters in my car recently. I was going to attempt to do it myself until i discovered that to get the new filters to work, a code had to be entered into the cars computer...and surprise surprise there are only specific garages who have the machine to enter the code........i hope guitars aren't going the same way.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 26, 2011 20:54:34 GMT -5
interesting guitar. but give me your hss strat design anyday john. are the pup an intregal part of the design. could you throw in a couple of kinsmans or duncans etc into the guitar and still get it to function or are you stuck with musicman pup. Well Id agree!.. I'd think that just about any pickups could be used for any pf these designs, so long as connections to each coil are available, and the right process is gone through to work out polarities and phase etc when combining diffeernt makes. |
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Post by geo on Nov 27, 2011 11:53:34 GMT -5
Makes me wonder if you could find an arduino-programmable device to take care of a ton of switching configurations and just digitalize the whole process a lot cheaper...
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Post by newey on Nov 27, 2011 12:10:55 GMT -5
We've had speculation about digital switching in the past, using logic controllers, but no one here has come up with a concrete plan to actually implement such a thing. If your switching is so complex that digital control is needed, then you need a simpler guitar!  |
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Post by sumgai on Nov 28, 2011 0:55:32 GMT -5
We've had speculation about digital switching in the past, using logic controllers, but no one here has come up with a concrete plan to actually implement such a thing.Not quite true. ChrisK, Channelman and I have all hit the drawing board (well, OK, the CAD screen) with designs. But as usual in the guitar player world, they're gonna be a wee bit more complicated to operate, they're gonna be a tad bit more expensive to implement, and most of all, they're gonna have that dreaded cachet of "....ooooh, digital. That's so not my sound!!) Ordinarily I'd agree with you here. However, if it takes more than two switch operations to accomplish a desired 'change of tone' (and it can get worse, one need only recollect the 6 (or more!) switches of a Brian May setup....), compared to a simple push of a button on a digital setup (which is only controlling the routing of wires from analog pickups), which way would you rather go? Keeping in mind the added necessity/nuisance of having a battery on board at all time..... Chris's design was really nothing more than a mash-up of the three standard Strat combos, and the two combos not normally seen, it didn't allow for any 'enhancements'. At least not without a lot of monkeying around. Mine's more complicated, but allows for all manner of serial as well as parallel connection, plus phasing options. The only thing I never considered back then was so-called 'half-phasing' a combo. I'd need to revisit the logic portion of the design to see if I could make that happen. But the opposing side is, Chris's was easier to comprehend, had fewer parts (which were almost universally common), and could be built/repaired by the average Nut. Mine takes second place on all three accounts.  All things considered, I think it's gonna be at least another whole generation of players (think 30 years or more) before guitars finally shed 1950's style controls. Allow me to prognisticate further: It won't be Gibson at the forefront of that revolution, either. Sorry, Orville. sumgai |
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Post by jcgss77 on Nov 28, 2011 16:48:03 GMT -5
All things considered, I think it's gonna be at least another whole generation of players (think 30 years or more) before guitars finally shed 1950's style controls. Allow me to prognisticate further: It won't be Gibson at the forefront of that revolution, either. Sorry, Orville. sumgai This is pretty much what I was thinking. This may sound weird, but I find the lack of hum and buzz of analog equipment missing in digital effects. It sounds good, but just doesn't sound 'right'. Anyone else feel that way? |
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Post by 4real on Nov 28, 2011 17:48:13 GMT -5
This is pretty much what I was thinking. This may sound weird, but I find the lack of hum and buzz of analog equipment missing in digital effects. It sounds good, but just doesn't sound 'right'. Anyone else feel that way? Not necessarily, generally Digital effects come loaded with presets that have a heap of compression and noise reduction on them, take that off and they are as noisy as anything else generally. A lot of these strategies are there to make things sound 'better' but in doing so the sound can get squashed and less dynamic and the detail sucked out through excessive noise reduction. Cut that back or even remove it and you will get a lot of that "analog sound' out of the things. In general though, they don't seem to do distortions too well, though a lot of amp modelling is very good and the above tweaks as well as EQ'ing and all that to match your guitar and wishes is the key to getting a good to even great sound out of them. They are getting better all the time too, but they know what sells and that people generally do not go deeper into the menus to work the power to their advantage... I love the sound of a noise free guitar myself, that is not a guitar that is artificially 'reduced' by electronic silencing and the like...but there is nothing quite so good as a guitar that can go from silence to a roar without a heap of buzz and hum IMHO. As a musician, I want the sounds coming out of the guitar to be the ones that I create and not hampered by extraneous noises or the vagaries of how close one is to the light or computer or...you get the idea. Anyway, set about some time to work those digital effects, take out the dynamic reducers and program in some sounds that suit your guitar and playing style and amp and you might review your thoughts on digital effects. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 12, 2011 21:22:17 GMT -5
Holy frack! It's pretty cool, though it seems to only rewire the pickup connections themselves. There's a distinct lack of broadbucker tones, for example. I suppose it could be expanded to include pots, caps, etc. I think we're safe, though. At least until this system is as cheap as a handful of switches. Then I'm gonna buy several! I don't imagine it would have been difficult to include those capabilities when they designed it, but adding them on after the fact is probably off the table. I really doubt the price will ever drop to a point where the average joe could afford one. It's all about numbers. Make a handful of a new product and the costs are asstronomical. Make ten thousand and the cost becomes reasonable. Make a million and it becomes dirt cheap. I did a little reverse-engineering exercise. This topic has probably run its course, but if anyone is still interested... First, a screenshot from one of their videos:   Based on that, I made this drawing:   |
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Post by roadtonever on Mar 9, 2013 5:32:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2013 13:19:59 GMT -5
i have one of these to control my alarm system via the motion recognition system, i.e. connect the two systems together. It is a simple 8-way USB relay board, which implements RS232 standard and is easily controllable/drivable from a shell-enabled (Unix) computer, used to further drive NO/NC circuits. Hmmm, if all pups signals were individually driven out of the guitar, one could use such a device to implement all various combinations in bus-like architecture, transferring the problem from the tedious traditional-retro-vintage analog way, to the new digital way. So each connection should have three attributes: the 4 wires, the option for in series or parallel connection, and the phase. So the trick here is drive all outputs out of the guitar, but that would require a special cable (6-way for a HSH configuration), and a device to convert the 5-channels into a usable (by the amps) mono/stereo signal. |
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Post by Teleblooz on Mar 10, 2013 23:35:41 GMT -5
Neck Finish:
Gunstock oil and hand-rubbed special wax blendDon't get me started with an oil finish on a guitar neck... OK, I gotta ask - what's your objection to oil finishes on guitar necks? I just did one that way and it seems to work great. |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 11, 2013 11:29:04 GMT -5
Neck Finish:
Gunstock oil and hand-rubbed special wax blendDon't get me started with an oil finish on a guitar neck... OK, I gotta ask - what's your objection to oil finishes on guitar necks? I just did one that way and it seems to work great. OK, let me rip this thread sufficiently off topic enough to wake gumbo up...I'll try to be brief. Let me preface that acrylic craft hobby paints can be used to paint a car. They will look fine...until it rains...at which point they will fail and cease to offer protection to the bare metal surface underneath. My objection to oil on a neck runs along the same lines. [mantra]
Any finish applied to bare wood is there to protect the wood from dirt, oils, moisture and any\other contaminants.
[/mantra]Oils will work on a guitar neck. While they last they will perform the job as detailed on the can. Unlike hard finishes they will fail sooner...based on the amount of playing and your proclivity to perspire...coupled with your body chemistry...they will fail exponentially sooner. If you are willing to regularly examine and reapply said oil finish they will last indefinitely. 99 44/100 of people who apply an oil finish to a neck do not do this. As moisture gains access to the wood in your neck bad things can happen...specifically warping and twisting. So, why do people use oils on guitar necks? It's easier. No offense, but just about anyone can apply an oil finish and not screw it up. There's no prep, no sanding, no polishing and within a day of so it's ready to go...and it looks good...especially on bookcases... To me this is a false economy in that the additional equipment, 15-30 days of cure time on a hard finish prior to the tedious work of sanding and polishing will yield a finish capable of lasting 20-30 years. Oils will normally last 1/4 to 1/8 that time without reapplication. Guess that wasn't as brief as intended... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by Teleblooz on Mar 11, 2013 14:56:19 GMT -5
OK, I gotta ask - what's your objection to oil finishes on guitar necks? I just did one that way and it seems to work great. OK, let me rip this thread sufficiently off topic enough to wake gumbo up...I'll try to be brief. Let me preface that acrylic craft hobby paints can be used to paint a car. They will look fine...until it rains...at which point they will fail and cease to offer protection to the bare metal surface underneath. My objection to oil on a neck runs along the same lines. [mantra]
Any finish applied to bare wood is there to protect the wood from dirt, oils, moisture and any\other contaminants.
[/mantra]Oils will work on a guitar neck. While they last they will perform the job as detailed on the can. Unlike hard finishes they will fail sooner...based on the amount of playing and your proclivity to perspire...coupled with your body chemistry...they will fail exponentially sooner. If you are willing to regularly examine and reapply said oil finish they will last indefinitely. 99 44/100 of people who apply an oil finish to a neck do not do this. As moisture gains access to the wood in your neck bad things can happen...specifically warping and twisting. So, why do people use oils on guitar necks? It's easier. No offense, but just about anyone can apply an oil finish and not screw it up. There's no prep, no sanding, no polishing and within a day of so it's ready to go...and it looks good...especially on bookcases... To me this is a false economy in that the additional equipment, 15-30 days of cure time on a hard finish prior to the tedious work of sanding and polishing will yield a finish capable of lasting 20-30 years. Oils will normally last 1/4 to 1/8 that time without reapplication. Guess that wasn't as brief as intended... Happy Trails Cynical One Good info to know - I'll keep that in mind, thanks. |
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Post by gumbo on Mar 12, 2013 5:35:39 GMT -5
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz!  ...someone say OIL?  ??  .........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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