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Post by JohnH on Oct 26, 2013 20:06:59 GMT -5
I just updated the first post, to add a option of series to single blending in the bridge position 1.
This gives quicker transitions from series to single, and provides both single coils separately if wanted, adding a 16th basic sound.
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fireex0
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Post by fireex0 on Nov 22, 2013 4:34:43 GMT -5
Im just a bit confused by the lack of key anywhere xD But this was so interesting I had to make an account to clarify. Im buying new pups/tuners/bridge, everything really to mod a strat and I think this is the wiring I am gonna go with. Is the mid Rw/rp? Does it matter if it is? Would there be any differences if it isn't?
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Post by newey on Nov 22, 2013 5:36:04 GMT -5
fireex0-
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
Yes, it is RWRP and yes, it matters, so as to optimize hum-cancelling. Note the colors of the coils on John's diagram, they are either tinted red or blue to indicate relative polarity.
Not sure what you mean there, fireex0. John has a table of the various switch positions on the right-hand side of the first diagram in the thread. Is that what you mean by a "key"?
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fireex0
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Post by fireex0 on Nov 22, 2013 7:34:33 GMT -5
I mean theirs nothing that specifically says the polarity was relative to the pickups, More just me being reluctant and second guessing myself than a complaint or anything. Haha. Thanks! I am buying pickups while I'm in the US over the holidays and I have been toiling over whether I should get rw/rp or not. But I'm pretty set on this mod so I'm decided. I will post my results when I actually get around to it.
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Post by newey on Nov 22, 2013 19:43:56 GMT -5
John used colors to indicate the polarity of each coil relative to the coil next to it. He specifically didn't include any statement of absolute polarity(i.e, "N coil" or "S coil")since that varies from one pickup manufacturer to the next.
If you buy a "matched set" of pickups from a single manufacturer (and use them in their designated positions), then the colors should work themselves out just fine as per the diagram. If you're mixing pups from different sources, then all bets are off, and you need to check coil polarities to be sure.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 1, 2013 23:32:00 GMT -5
Hi, Ive been away the last few weeks, but newey has it covered. For this design to work correctly, its the relative polarities that count. You need a humbucker, a normal single and an RWRP single. THis would be as expected on any guitar with HSS, so should not be a problem to find as a set. it is not intended for noiseless singles though, as explained in the main post above.
but good luck. Once you get such a set, the first job is to work out which coils of the Hb are the same magnetic polarity as each single, but seeing if they repel face to face. then you will know how to place them.
cheers
John
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francois
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Post by francois on Apr 24, 2015 9:34:44 GMT -5
First and foremost I must acknowledge and thank John for his help and time spent on my case. Here are the initial technical specs: Fender Stratocaster HSS (Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates humbucker + 2 Texas Specials single coils) wired as an American Standard Version. John originally worked on different specs for his SSM² project (ie Di Marzio or Fender humbucker). Because different manufacturers use different colour wires, I couldn't figure out which one was the North finish or the South finish. Not only John sent me an essential document with all the wire colours used by the mainstream pick-up manufacturers, he was also kind enough to send me a new schematic to match Seymour Duncan's wiring. After wiring everything according to my personalised schematic, I was eager to try my 10 new sounds. Unfortunately 6 positions were not working. Again John rescued me and gave me really precise advice to troubleshoot the short circuit. I have been testing these 10 new sounds for more than a month now. At first it's a bit overwhelming it's like having two new strats to A/B with your original strat. I ended up making a table to summarise all the different positions. The result is astonishing; the humbucker can be split and used as a single coil, some sounds are thicker than the stock ones (bordering on Tele's territory?) some are thinner great for chicken scratching… On top of all that most position can be blended with the contiguous position by turning what was the middle tone pot. I haven't finished yet exploring the endless possibilities of my new guitar but if you are wondering whether or not you should this mod, well… Stop thinking get the components and do it. You will not regret it!
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Post by JohnH on Apr 24, 2015 16:04:06 GMT -5
Hi francois, thankyou for posting and for your comments. Although you have been a member here for a while, let me be the first to welcome you publicly to GN2!
btw - You are not alone!, I know of two others who have also built this design. One, from the Marshall forum changed to the Revision B design, which puts blender control of single to series on the humbucker. Recently, ledvedder on Strat-talk has also built this, using a DiMarzio super distortion for the humbucker. Here is a link to his thread:
Strat talk thread
He also made some dirty and clean sound clips stepping through all the settings, on his Yamaha THR10:
Sound demo from Strat talk
A common theme in getting these designs to work correctly has been to figure out specifically the phase and polarity details of the actual set of pickups to be used. It doesn't take all that long to do it once the methods are figured out, but it can be a bit of a journey to get there!
cheers John
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edu
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Post by edu on Nov 26, 2017 13:41:28 GMT -5
Hey John, Thanks for the circuit! I put the Rev B in my Strat, but I have a couple of questions: 1) I would like the default strat settings when the blender is on 10. For that I would need to connect the cable from the switch to the other end of the blender pot. Would it work fine? The pot is 'no-load', so I don't know if switching the blending order would mess up the sound. 2) What would be the effect of using a regular pot for the blender? (no no-load) 3) The way my humbucker is, Bn is the one closer to the Mid pickup, and Bs is the one close to the bridge. Do I need to modify anything? My pickups are: Neck: Seymour Duncan SSL-2Mid: Seymour Duncan SSL-2 RWRP (this one is reverse wired, so I get noise cancellation when it's with the Neck) Bridge: Seymour Duncan SJBJ-1B
Thanks!
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Post by JohnH on Nov 26, 2017 14:26:27 GMT -5
Hi edu, welcome to GN2 and thanks for your interest in this scheme. Have you built it now?
being a SD pickup, you would need to translate wire colours from the Fender that I have (which seemed very similar to Dimarzio). also, if your bridge-side Hb coil is the one with same magnetism as the Middle, then swap th ewiring for the hb coils. Any combo of two pickup should be hum cancelling.
You can wire the blender the other way, and actually you don't really need a no-load, But if it is an audio pot, then the taper will not be good. It is a smooth blend with a normal audio taper as shown. If you reverse that, then it will be almost an instant change, not smooth. I'm very happy with how I have mine, 10 is louder than 1 which works for me. But for what you want, ideally a reverse audio (Type C) 250 k pot, wired with the other outer lug would give standard settings at 10 instead of 1. another good option would be to get a full size standard linear 100k pot and open it up to make it no-load, at the other end of the travel. No expensive and no risk to try it - it works.
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edu
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Post by edu on Nov 26, 2017 18:25:01 GMT -5
Hey, thanks for replying so quickly. I used this guide to translate the colors from your circuit to my seymour duncan. The circuit said Fender/DiMarzio, and I thought it was the same. It seems Fender has the North and South switched when compared to the DiMarzio, that would explain why my North is connected as the South in the circuit. I'll fix that. As per the pot, too bad I cannot just switch it, but I'll look into getting a type C or just leave it as it is. (I'm planing to add a piezo pick-up in the future, so I may put a push pull there instead anyways). You suggested a Linear as well, that confuses me a little bit. Why was it a log pot to begin with? I would think linear would be better for something like a crossover. I understand the log, linear and anti-log curves, but not really how they affect the behavior of the blender, do you have any link with info you can share for me to read? Thanks again!
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edu
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Post by edu on Nov 27, 2017 16:56:44 GMT -5
Changing the humbucker cables worked, but not sure if the polarities are fine, will double check once I get a compass from somewhere. If anyone is interested, I modified the previously posted guide of the RevA configuration to show RevB. I'm thinking about printing it to have around until I get used to the sounds.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 27, 2017 17:13:24 GMT -5
Im glad its basicly working.
The blend pot works by bypassing one coil when in series mode. The effect of this arrangement is that most of the tonal change happens between 0 resistance (fully bypassed, so only the other coil is active), up to about 20 to 30k. Then the rest of the change happens from there up to max pot resistance 250k. So using a log pot as shown, spreads this tonal range smoothly across the pot turn.
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edu
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Post by edu on Nov 28, 2017 10:58:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification John!
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edu
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Post by edu on Dec 1, 2017 16:35:23 GMT -5
New question, cause I don't know if I put the cables right. With the S2 up and the blender at minimum. I have Pos 4: N+Bs Pos 5: N
Pos 5 sounds louder than 4, shouldn't it be the other way around? Did I messed up?
Thanks!
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Post by JohnH on Dec 1, 2017 20:36:31 GMT -5
That Bs coil is the one nearest to bridge in your case isn't it? if so, it is the brightest coil but with the least volume and in a parallel combo, the volumes of the two coils get averaged rather than adding up. So neck alone could be louder.
But, just check the phase. Its correct if: Bs and neck are opposite magnetism, and also they produce a combo with less hum than neck alone. You can also check phase directly with a meter, see 'screwdriver pull off test' in the reference section.
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edu
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Post by edu on Dec 6, 2017 18:05:43 GMT -5
That Bs coil is the one nearest to bridge in your case isn't it? Hi, I followed the colors in the diagram. In the circuit, Bs is the blue one at the bottom. In the design bellow it, the blue one is the closer to the Middle, not the Bridge, so I assumed that was Bs. Were the colors or the labels in the circuit reversed? Should Bs be the one closer to the Bridge?
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Post by JohnH on Dec 7, 2017 2:36:14 GMT -5
The key question for your build is, which humbucker coil has the same magnetic polarity as the middle? In mine it is the coil nearest the middle, that I shaded blue.
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edu
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Post by edu on Dec 8, 2017 22:30:49 GMT -5
Ok, polarities seem fine (I used an actual compass to check), but there may be an issue with Phase.
Polarities are: Neck: North Middle: South Bs (The one close to the Middle): South Bn (The one close to the Bridge): North
I did the screwdriver test as suggested and here are the results: N+M) Are in phase Bs+Bn) Are in phase, but have different polarities (shouldn't be out of phase for hum cancelling?)
N+Bs) Are OUT of phase, but have different polarities M+Bn) Are OUT of Phase, but have different polarities
As far as I know, both polarity and phase must be different for it to be noise cancelling, so I'm not sure what's failing here. Maybe I just find the sounds weird?
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Post by JohnH on Dec 8, 2017 23:58:22 GMT -5
Hum cancelling is from two pickups of opposite polarity, in phase, or two of same polarity, out of phase.
Seems like a fix will be, for each bridge coil, to swap start with finish,
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edu
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Post by edu on Dec 9, 2017 10:57:27 GMT -5
Thanks man, that did the trick.
To recap: 1st issue, I had Bs and Bn switched. 2nd issue, each one was in the wrong phase.
So, for Seymour Duncan: White cable replaces Green in your design. Black replaces White Red stays Red Green replaces Black
That goes against the comparisions I see of humbuckers online, but it's the way it seems to work (maybe my humbucker came messed up with the cabling from factory? Who knows.)
Again, thanks!
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Post by JohnH on Dec 9, 2017 13:57:28 GMT -5
Great, I'm glad you worked it through. My diagrams were all based on my guitar which has stock Fender pickups. Ive heard of polarity issues before when SD is subbed into a Fender and maybe the singles are different polarity as well. Your correlation will be a useful reference.
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crillev1
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Post by crillev1 on Apr 4, 2021 2:55:44 GMT -5
Happy Easter John and all other members! JohnHI'm wondering if it is possible to add a "Cocked wah" function to SSM2 rev B? We have two or three pots available to put push-push switches on! I know about and have built the SP HSS, but I was wondering if we could avoid the (cost of!) Super-switch in the SP HSS diagram? Cheers / Chris
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Post by JohnH on Apr 4, 2021 3:58:19 GMT -5
Sure, if you have a tone circuit in mind that you'd like switched in, you can add that across the volume pot with a push-pull.
With the SP schemes, they are inherently in need of a 4-pole 5-way, so a super-switch is the thing.
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crillev1
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Post by crillev1 on Apr 4, 2021 5:59:19 GMT -5
JohnHHmmm, I can't upload image and I can't upload file! Wassup?
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Post by newey on Apr 4, 2021 6:21:05 GMT -5
Hmmm, I can't upload image and I can't upload file Crillev1- How are you trying to upload the image? Attachments are disabled on the forum, so you can't simply attach a diagram to a post. You have to host the image elsewhere. There are 2 options. When you hit "reply", the reply window has 2 buttons- "upload file" is in the upper right corner, this requires you to first set up a Cloudinary account but is the preferred way. The second way uses the "Postimage upload" button in the upper left corner of the reply window. This second method does not require a registration.
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crillev1
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Post by crillev1 on Apr 4, 2021 6:25:22 GMT -5
So, JohnH something like this then? (thanks newey) hope this works!
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Post by JohnH on Apr 4, 2021 8:00:27 GMT -5
That's the right sort of thing, subject to whatever is the best component recipe go make that wah sound that you want, which I'm not sure of. If you know what works, all good Jf not, maybe try a few arrangements across the guitar cord hot to ground, using some temporary aligator-clip lash-up.
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crillev1
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Post by crillev1 on Apr 6, 2021 11:01:16 GMT -5
JohnH, The Humbucker polarity in the diagram for the SSM2 rev. B seems wrong to me, or ......? edu wrote earlier: Ok, polarities seem fine (I used an actual compass to check), but there may be an issue with Phase. Polarities are: Neck: North Middle: South Bs (The one close to the Middle): South Bn (The one close to the Bridge): North ------------------------------------------------- Isn't this wrong? Bn is usually the closest to the Middle and Bs is closest to the Bridge. Or am I missing something here? The SSM2 Rev C. seems to have the polarity for the humbucker correct.
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Post by JohnH on Apr 6, 2021 17:31:14 GMT -5
hi Crillev-1
I don't see any issues with the diagrams. It's ok to place a humbucker either way around physically and this doesn't affect phase or wiring.
In a design like this, it does affect whether when used as a single coil, the coil nearer to bridge or to neck is used.
Designs A and B are based on how the pickups in my own guitar were installed by Fender. I like A best and its the one I play every day. It keeps a full humbucker sound available in position 1, no matter how the blend is set. The bridge single tone that it offers is the coil furthest from bridge, which has to be the same magnetic polarity as M in this design. This bridge coil sounds the best. Rev B changes things by extending tbe blender to position 1, giving the other bridge coil.
Rev C, which I didn't post myself, was a specific variation for Francois, to suit his SD pickuos and how he wanted to place them.
They all work though and none of them get into phase issues, provided relative polarities are checked.
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