HSH Guitar Kit w/ 3 pots + switch + Ebay pups

[stevewf]

Apr 3, 2024 18:06:03 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

 One question, when you say cavity shield do you mean to solder to the star (paperclip) ground unreg was talking about? (I will have copper shielding tape in my wiring enclosure as well as under my pups)

What I meant by shielding is that copper tape. It' got to be connected to the ground at some point, or it'll be ineffective. It should be one of the "points" of the star. Same for the bridge (which is physically connected to the strings, which also help with noise cancelation when grounded). Some people line the cavity with conductive paint instead of copper, but it's the same idea (and it, of course, also has to be grounded).

Edit: What I meant by the "pickup cable shielding" is the bare wires that are next to the 4 colored wires, and yes, each of those shields should be a "star" point.

The paperclip (or washer, or back of a pot) serves as the center of the star. As the center, it'll have a handful of ground wires connected to it. Paperclips and washers are used in order to avoid damaging the pot, which can happen if the pot gets cooked by too much soldering heat when connecting those many wires.

As unreg mentioned, the star center can be physically attached to the shielding in order to accomplish the ground/shielding connection. In unreg's example, the paperclip is shaped carefully before any soldering is done, so that it may be easily screwed to the inside wall of the lined cavity. I'd also suggest carefully choosing a screw-down spot and drill the hole in the cavity wall before soldering; choose a spot that won't get in the way of the guts when the pickguard goes in later. Planning that spot enables you to plan the star point wire lengths and layout. After planning, the "star point" wires (one of which is the "main" ground wire) get attached to the paperclip before it's finally screwed to the cavity.

As an alternative, I've also seen the center of the star created by putting ring terminals on each star wire and joining them together by a single screw in the side of the lined cavity.

[newey]

Apr 4, 2024 10:16:30 GMT -5 stevewf said:

As an alternative, I've also seen the center of the star created by putting ring terminals on each star wire and joining them together by a single screw in the side of the lined cavity.

I have done this as well for a star ground. However, word to the wise. Don't rely on just crimping the connectors onto the wires, put a drop of solder on there to be sure. Also, use small-sized ring connectors, they need to be of the correct gauge wire you are using (usually 22 or 24 gauge). And ring terminals work better than spade terminals- I've tried those, too, and the spades keep slipping off the screw as you're trying to screw the whole thing down.

Depending on your cavity, you may also need a right-angle screwdriver to screw into the side of the cavity. I would not screw into the bottom of the cavity, there's not much wood there and you might poke through it.

[unreg]

Apr 4, 2024 10:16:30 GMT -5 stevewf said:

As unreg mentioned, the star center can be physically attached to the shielding in order to accomplish the ground/shielding connection. In unreg's example, the paperclip is shaped carefully before any soldering is done, so that it may be easily screwed to the inside wall of the lined cavity. I'd also suggest carefully choosing a screw-down spot and drill the hole in the cavity wall before soldering; choose a spot that won't get in the way of the guts when the pickguard goes in later. Planning that spot enables you to plan the star point wire lengths and layout. After planning, the "star point" wires (one of which is the "main" ground wire) get attached to the paperclip before it's finally screwed to the cavity.

And just a bit more:

1.) Make sure to choose a conductive paperclip. 🖇️ I was happy to learn that plastic isN’T appropriate/useable for the star ground task.

2.) When jack’s ground is directly connected to the paperclip, in my example, that provides an almost direct connection to ground for anything touching that paperclip; thus, covering it with electrical tape is wise. Since my electronics cavity has been painted with a (self-made) conductive paint, you may be thinking why isn’t covering my entire cavity with electrical tape necessary? That’s because while my paint is directly connected to my paperclip; if something were to touch my electrical cavity wall, then that wouldn’t be almost directly connected to my jack’s ground (it would have to travel through my paint, then through my paperclip, then finally reaching jack’s ground); the scenic route to ground is less deadly, or less important.

[newey]

unreg-

You don't want any electrical connection to make contact with your shielding, whether paint, foil, copper tape, whatev. At any point.

That doesn't mean you need to tape over the entire shielding, just the parts that are potentially close to a connection or solder lugs. Rotate your pots when installing so the lugs face inward rather than towards the cavity wall. If any switches are right close to the shielding, then I'll add a strip of tape over it just to be on the safe side. But it's never been necessary to do much of it. Most connections should be far enough away that no contatct would ever happen unless a connection broke and a wire went a-wandering loose- in which case you'd be going back in to resolder anyway.

On my 4caster, I was concerned due to 4 DPDTs which came dangerously close to the cavity shielding. They weren't touching, but my concern was that, over time, the cheap single-ply pickguard might warp slightly (The weight of 4 single-coil pickups worried me a bit). So, in that particular case I taped over the cavity wall opposite those switches. But ordinarily, there is really no prospect of there being contact made, assuming the build techniques/procedures were proper from the start.

[stevewf]

Apr 4, 2024 17:37:57 GMT -5 newey said:

unreg-

You don't want any electrical connection to make contact with your shielding, whether paint, foil, copper tape, whatev. At any point.

That doesn't mean you need to tape over the entire shielding, just the parts that are potentially close to a connection or solder lugs. Rotate your pots when installing so the lugs face inward rather than towards the cavity wall. If any switches are right close to the shielding, then I'll add a strip of tape over it just to be on the safe side. But it's never been necessary to do much of it. Most connections should be far enough away that no contatct would ever happen unless a connection broke and a wire went a-wandering loose- in which case you'd be going back in to resolder anyway.

On my 4caster, I was concerned due to 4 DPDTs which came dangerously close to the cavity shielding. They weren't touching, but my concern was that, over time, the cheap single-ply pickguard might warp slightly (The weight of 4 single-coil pickups worried me a bit). So, in that particular case I taped over the cavity wall opposite those switches. But ordinarily, there is really no prospect of there being contact made, assuming the build techniques/procedures were proper from the start.

I'd say there should be one electrical connection purposefully making contact with the shielding: the ground, making the shielding a point in the star.

I second newey's ideas about positioning components within the cavity, and about insulating the cavity shielding where contact with components is more likely.

I'd add that allowing only small lengths of bare wire (like less than 1/4") can reduce short-outs. I once left my Humbucker's shield wire long enough to reach the star center, which is schematically sound, but with the cavity closed, the bare wire intermittently touched signal wires causing shorts. Now I take the time to heat-shrink some of the long bare wires (like capacitor leads) and replace others by splicing in insulated wires, as suggested in the above wiring diagram (for the Humbucker cable shields).

[newey]

I'd say there should be one electrical connection purposefully making contact with the shielding: the ground, making the shielding a point in the star.

Yes. And often the bridge/string ground as well, I often just attach that to the cavity shielding where it comes through the hole rather than string a wire to the star ground point.

I should have clarified that we don't want any part of the signal chain to touch the shielding.

[stevewf]

Apr 5, 2024 7:00:46 GMT -5 newey said:

And often the bridge/string ground as well, I often just attach that to the cavity shielding where it comes through the hole rather than string a wire to the star ground point.

So one of the star points is extended; "chained", which seems ok to me. I've read that others have used nested stars, where star points go on to become mini-star-centers themselves. Also seems ok to me.

Actually, I think the value of star-shaped grounding lies mostly in its neatness; it's easier to check that everything that's meant to be grounded is indeed grounded... and everything that's not, isn't.

[tommyd2]

newey, unreg or stevewf: can one of you guys just confirm a concern of mine. I already fixed it as a problem before even posting on the forum but now realize I neglected to inform you guys. So for my superswitch, it can only fit in the cavity one way bc of size of cavity and location of pots, which is the reversed way as it would appear to be in stevewf's diagram. However, upon observing the superswitch, nothing would appear to be different as when you switch the poles, you also flip the switch entirely so first pos. would become 5th. NOT SURE tho so would like confirmation that I can start wiring with no problems and no poles would be reversed and the diagram is still correct.
In this pic, the current arrangement of everything (not incl output jack bc not arrived yet) in the cavity is shown and (I didn't even know before) the super switch is rotated 180 degrees to account for the space in the cavity. I'm pretty sure nothing needs changed but not entirely. 
-Postimage upload not working (prob my wifi) but hopefully you know what I mean

[stevewf]

Apr 6, 2024 19:28:01 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

newey, unreg or stevewf: can one of you guys just confirm a concern of mine. I already fixed it as a problem before even posting on the forum but now realize I neglected to inform you guys. So for my superswitch, it can only fit in the cavity one way bc of size of cavity and location of pots, which is the reversed way as it would appear to be in stevewf's diagram. However, upon observing the superswitch, nothing would appear to be different as when you switch the poles, you also flip the switch entirely so first pos. would become 5th. NOT SURE tho so would like confirmation that I can start wiring with no problems and no poles would be reversed and the diagram is still correct.
In this pic, the current arrangement of everything (not incl output jack bc not arrived yet) in the cavity is shown and (I didn't even know before) the super switch is rotated 180 degrees to account for the space in the cavity. I'm pretty sure nothing needs changed but not entirely. 
-Postimage upload not working (prob my wifi) but hopefully you know what I mean

If you solder everything as it appears in the diagram, and then physically turn the 5-way switch 180deg with the wires attached, it'll work, but the lever will be backwards; you'll flip it toward the bridge end of the guitar but you'll get neck pickup, and vice-versa. Same thing if you turn the switch prior to soldering, but the wires "follow" the lugs as they rotate.

If you flip rotate the 5-way before soldering the wires, perhaps renaming the sections (a-d) and then solder the wires to the renamed sections, it'll work and the lever will be forwards.

And yes, postimgs seems to be having problems for me too, otherwise I'd post a pic of what I mean.
[Edit: the image hosting site is working again. Here's an adjusted drawing, with the 5-way rotated. We can see that it's almost unchanged.]

SPOILER: Click to show

[tommyd2]

Cool, thanks stevewf, from observing my superswitch I'd thought it'd work flipped around, realized my mistake after soldering only a few wires so had ability to unsolder and will restart. I hope to finish sometime this week as Im waiting on the treble bleed and a new output jack. Also, I didn't tell you guys, but figured it'd be simple enough to do myself: I got a kill switch as well that I was going to install (already have space for it/ hole drilled) but I can install myself. 
Will keep you posted, Thanks