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Post by gckelloch on May 29, 2024 16:47:12 GMT -5
It looks like, from the kits I can find, Deluxe mini hbs use one magnet making contact with the slug and poles. Firebird minis use two alnico magnets in place of slugs. What would the difference be? How is the Firebird magnet oriented? Could I use a Deluxe mini build but with two slugs, no poles, and a magnet below?
The poles are the bar magnets in a Firebird PUP. I covered the differences in my reply #13. You can use two Steel bars (slugs) in a mini-HB. I covered potential problems in my reply #23.
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Post by gckelloch on May 29, 2024 17:25:38 GMT -5
Here's a link to the patent, with claims and details of the design. patents.google.com/patent/US3902394A/en It's a short read, informative. All the coils and components are described as interchangeable, the pole pieces are described in the patent as, "iron" and the magnet is ceramic. It seems to be an exercise in minimizing cost and easing manufacturing. I don't think there's any magic there. The regular Firebird pickup has the typical vertically oriented bobbins with blades. They tend to be bright and crisp, kind of strat like, low-output, while being humbucking. OK, so the "sidewinder" firebird pickup (the subject of that patent) uses iron core coils, and therefore does not have a high Q bright sound, maybe with the intention that this pickup would be used with much larger amounts of distortion that the neck pickup. AFAIK, the standard FB PUPs had Brass covers, which you know rolls off the high-end-- reducing the Q. Bill's sidewinder design had plastic covers, so the effect of the iron cores would result in roughly the same tone as an equivalent inductance FB PUP with a brass cover. I guess the plastic covers were cost-saving. Bill also preferred the sound of single-aperture pickups (but was not a big fan of harmonic distortion). That might be why he made it a sidewinder and/or that one AlNiCo bar and two Steel bars were cheaper than two AlNiCo bars, a Steel bottom plate, and more coil wire to achieve the same inductance. Here's his patent for the stacked SmCo-powered design he created for Fender. He had already produced his similar L-280 stacks in the mid-90s. patents.google.com/patent/US20060156911A1/enHere's the GuitarFreak 6 freq response curve of a 4.32H DiMarzio PAF Pro pickup with 500k pots and a 200pF cable into a 1M input. It's a pretty standard PAF HB with Steel screws and slugs. At 9.6k DCR, it must have thinner than 42AWG wire. The nearly flat response with the dip in the harsher 3kHz range at the bridge pos is why I recommend ~4H with 500k pots and a ~200pF cable into a typical 1M input. A ~2.5H AlNiCo core PUP with 250k pots would have a peak in the same range, but 2~3dB stronger and without any dip. Again, I'd wind the neck Steel core Mini-HB to ~3.6H for better clarity. A 1~1.5nF cap on the tone knob would give them a tunable 1.5~2.5kHz peak when it is turned down below halfway-- great for Doom Metal and many styles. drive.google.com/file/d/1znEFAZzm4NbgkOpt8waj5rpwOrtLNU8u/view?usp=sharing
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nuke
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 44
Likes: 5
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Post by nuke on May 30, 2024 1:25:54 GMT -5
I don't know for certain what they original Firebird pickup covers were made of. I think they would have used the same materials as in the PAF's. There are some occasional photos on the interwebs that appear to be brass inside, but that might just be a lighting artifact, as there are plenty of others that show silvery metal.
The FB pickups were pretty bright, people seemed to like the neck better than the bridge pickups. I think the sidewinder was probably supposed to address that, as they appear to be only used in mid-70's Firebirds at the bridge position, with a regular Firebird pickup in the neck. Which makes sense, kind of like putting a humbucker in the bridge of a "super strat".
here's a thread with photos of mini-humbuckers of several types, Firebird pickups of a few types, and even a Seymour Duncan "S" stamp covered Firebird with yet another variation of construction.
If you want to go build something interesting, I think a sidewinder Firebird with a ceramic magnet might be a fun project with a unique tone.
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Post by gckelloch on May 30, 2024 1:41:03 GMT -5
I don't know for certain what they original Firebird pickup covers were made of. I think they would have used the same materials as in the PAF's. There are some occasional photos on the interwebs that appear to be brass inside, but that might just be a lighting artifact, as there are plenty of others that show silvery metal. The FB pickups were pretty bright, people seemed to like the neck better than the bridge pickups. I think the sidewinder was probably supposed to address that, as they appear to be only used in mid-70's Firebirds at the bridge position, with a regular Firebird pickup in the neck. Which makes sense, kind of like putting a humbucker in the bridge of a "super strat". here's a thread with photos of mini-humbuckers of several types, Firebird pickups of a few types, and even a Seymour Duncan "S" stamp covered Firebird with yet another variation of construction. If you want to go build something interesting, I think a sidewinder Firebird with a ceramic magnet might be a fun project with a unique tone. It does make sense to have a darker PUP in the bridge. A C8 or even C5 bar magnet directly under the strings in a sidewinder would pull strongly on the strings at typical distances and cause modulations. Even AlNiCo V is too strong, but some players like the crisp attack character. If going the Mini-HB route with Steel blades in each coil, and you want ~4H and ~3.6H, I'd try: Bridge neck (winds for each bobbin) 42AWG: 4700 4400 or 43AWG: 4800 4500 Those wind counts are based on a PAF with 10k winds of 42AWG PE at 8k and ~4.5H, which I can't confirm is average or not. My estimates might be a bit low because a Steel blade in each coil might yield slightly higher total inductance than if one of the coils has screws. You could try winding one PUP as a reference, and measure the inductance with an appropriate LCR meter. As you've wound pickups b4, you know the results depend very much on how dense and/or tight the coil is wound, as well as the thickness of the insulation. I just wouldn't use PE wire because it can crack around the bobbin edges and lose high-end, etc. Diagonal layering and/or excess tension will of course result in higher DCR. If you use a felt wire tensioner, you might wind at less than optimum tension to reduce inductance. I'm not sure if this is a possibility, but it occurred to me that if the coil is wound without layering, but with more wire on the top or bottom of the bobbins, there should be a bit less or more difference in the attack to sustain level, respectively.
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