Good options for a HSH Ibanez?

[beckerologly]

Hi all, Im replacing the bridge and neck pickup in my Ibanez RG350DX (HSH) with a Seymour Duncan JB and a Dimarzio Evolution neck.
Could anyone help me out with ideas for how to wire the thing? the 5-way at the moment works as follows :

Bridge HB
Middle SC with 1 bridge coil
Middle SC
Middle SC with 1 Neck coil
Neck HB
www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2004&w=RG350DX

I read an article that told me how to wire a HB with a on-on-on switch or something like that to give series/parallel/coil split, and thats perfect, but im wondering how that works in with the 5-way, as i dont even know how the 5-way currently splits coils.

Id like to be able to have:

Neck HB in series
Middle SC with Neck split (in series im guessing, thats how it normally is?)
MIddle with Bridge Split
Bridge HB in series/parallel
Neck and Bridge HB in series (or maybe split or something i dunno what works)

Any suggestions on what to change or how to wire?
oh and obvioulsy I will be adding a switch or two and maybe changing to a superswitch?? i dunno.

thanks mick.

[JohnH]

Hi Beckerology, welcome to GN2. Your sort of question is meat and drink to this forum, so Im sure some ideas will be forthcoming.

The thing with HSH is that there are so many options that you could have, that its hard to settle on just a small number. A Superswitch will make it easier to achieve a mix of series and parallel options.

Using on-on-on mini toggles will give you series/single/parallel on the Hb's.

Are you sure you dont want any single coil sounds? - My two favorite sounds are neck single and bridge Hb.

John

[beckerologly]

Hi, thanks for the welcome. Yes I would like single coil options and stuff, im just not sure what is actually possible to do. Everyone here would probably know better than me what sounds good, so yeah. Is there some way that that really snarly telecaster sound is acheived?

[UnklMickey]

hi Mick,

you've already been talking with one of the great ones here at GN2, so you're in good hands there.

i think i'll float an idea past you two, and see if it helps.

start with John's idea for 'mode' switches for the 2 HBs (series/split/parallel).

then have the 5-way superswitch select the following combinations (in no particular order):

Bridge only
Neck only
Bridge and Middle
Bridge and Neck
you will have to make your own choice for this last one, but i think either Middle only or Middle and Neck.

the final thing would be to have a DPDT switch that puts any 2 pickups that are selected by the either in series with each other, or in parallel.

if you plan the wiring properly, that last switch will have no effect on any 'only' selection made by the 5-way.

that should give you plenty of choices.


just my $0.02,

unk

[beckerologly]

Wow, thats quite a few options there! Im not sure about the middle or middle/neck, they both have thier advantages. When I currently split with middle pickup I use the bridge, but i dont really use the middle on its own either.

[JohnH]

Here's an idea, which may be a good start because it is simple.

If you have those 0n-0n-0n switches, one for each HB, then a quite versatile but simple to work out option would be to take the output from those switches, and connect them to a 5-way switch as in a standard Strat, giving N, NM, M, MB, B. The mixed options at 2 and 4 should give quite a variety, in combination with the on-on-on switches, and you have full access to everything that each pup can do on its own. This will cover all your existing combinations, and give you single-coil and parallel B and M.

A big advantage is that you could work out the diagram by splicing standard wirings for Strats and the on-on-on's.

The single coil cut/middle combos can also be at least close to hum cancelling, if the right Hb coil is cut.

What that wont do, without further work, is out-of-phase sounds, or series connection of pups. However, with humbuckers and single coil cuts, the need for these is moot, although i like them. They could be the subject of further rewiring later, using push-pull pots. Also, B/N combos are not provided by Strat wiring - another thing that could be added, with a 'bridge on' switch

If I had such a setup, then my normal use would be bridge Hb and neck set to single coil. These are at the ends of the five way range, so a quick side-swipe of the 5-way would make the changes.

Thats my thought - its also worth 2 cents.

John

[beckerologly]

Both are very attractive options to me. The problem with the former is that I will have to go out and find a superswitch that will fit in my Ibanez' existing hole (is that going to be hard?). The problem with the latter si that I have no idea how normal fender switches split coils in position 2 and 4. Either way I have no idea how to do this exept that I know how to wire each Hb to get series/parallel/split.

[beckerologly]

Also I am hesistant to give up the idea of a bridge/neck option

[UnklMickey]

there will only be 2 issues with using a superswitch, the clearance behind it (probably not an issue because the Ibanez switch is larger, i think), and the spacing of the mounting (screw)holes - i don't know it they are the same.

if this is your first wiring job, John's 'because it's simple' approach might be a good choice. (the wiring on a superswitch is a bit more complicated).

if you don't mind the bridge being in position 3, and the middle being where the bridge is supposed to be, you can still get bridge and neck, as well as bridge and middle on the stock switch, with no additional switches. you will give up neck and middle, but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

• NECK
  
• NECK + BRIDGE
  
• BRIDGE
  
• BRIDGE + MIDDLE
  
• MIDDLE
  

if the 2 on-on-on switches are the plan for the pickup 'mode' switches, you won't need to do the HB splits at the 5-way, so the wiring there will be VERY simple.



unk

[beckerologly]

Thats perfect, because I think the superswitch would have been the hardest part with the spacing and all that. Yes this is my first (guitar) wiring job and that would simplify things alot. I think thats what i'll go with.
Just out of interest, how does that DPDT switch work that can wire any 2 pickups selected in series or parallel? is that only doable with a superswitch?

[beckerologly]

ok, ill draw up a wiring diagram, or schematic, dont know what youd call my one. Its going to be based off the Ibanez's original
www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2004&w=RG350DX.
Could someone please fix it if it's screwed up somewhere (or everywhere) and put the grounds in the right place ect. that would be awesome.

[beckerologly]

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/rottendodo/attempt1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

I know its very wrong, i want to get rid of the coil split thing at the 5-way, but im not sure how it works in the first place. If anybody could explain the series thing to me (if thats possible) or fix up my diagram that would be great!

[beckerologly]

actually, it would have been better to work off the JEM diagram, I see screwups already
www.jemsite.com/tech/img/t_wd_777.gif

[UnklMickey]

hi Mick,

first of all, get rid of all the wiring on the right-hand side of the switch.

that was use for 'automatic' coil splitting in the original circuit.

since you are using DPDTs for series/split/parallel, the stuff on the right side will only cause problems.

second, i doubt the color codes are right on your diagram.

diMarzio and SD use different color codes, so i'll determine what needs to change there.

i'll get back to you later today, unless someone else works with you on this.

the drawing below should work, and maintain hum-canceling, if the middle pickup has a South magnetic polarity.

if you want a 'system' series/parallel switch, you will need to use a superswitch, instead of the stock 5-way.

you might want to keep it simple the first time through, and leave the system parallel for a later upgrade.


unk

[beckerologly]

Thank you both SO much for this help. I would have no clue how to do this without you! Yes I realised that Dimarzio have different colour codes to Seymour, but (is it wolf's?) site on www.1728.com can give me those comparisons. Determining which coil to cut 'north split south split' was a COMPLETE guess. Im guesing I want the SD to split a different coil than the Dimarzio and also different to the middle. Also i reallise now that the extra switch would be insanely complicated for my (lack of) skill level.
I have 2 last questions: how would I know if ive screwed up the north/south thing (and how would I amend that)
Why did you change the switching there, I copied that directly off www.1728.com/humbuck5.gif

thanks again for your help!

[beckerologly]

oh, and while im at it, does anyone feel like commenting on my choice of neck pickup? Im still not sure on it, so I went for the Vai sig pickup. One thing apart from the obvious that im looking for in the neck is sometihng that WONT make that horrible video-game noise when sweeping or fast playing a la many shred guitarists and michael angio batio.

[UnklMickey]

you are thinking correctly on which coils to use when you split.

since you have 2 SC pairs, the middle polarity determines the way you want to split the bridge, to maintain hum-canceling. (opposite polarity from the middle)

and the way the bridge splits, in turn determines the way you want to split the neck. (opposite polarity from the neck)

it's a better than average chance that the middle has a South magnetic polarity, but even if this is wrong, it's not a catastrophe.

if you change from middle only, to bridge (split) and middle, you should notice less hum. if the hum stays the same, or increases slightly, we guessed wrong on the polarity. no big deal, we'll just 'stack' the coils differently.

i wouldn't call the addition of another DPDT and change to a superswitch insanely difficult, but you definitely should take things a step at a time. it will be easier to find any errors you might make. John was very wise in suggesting the simpler approach, for an early project.


there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of the wiring you will find at Wolf's site.

there are actually 4 different ways to wire a series/parallel switch, but i like the one i used, because it's "universal".

the switches are upside-down from your drawing, but this link explains what i mean:

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1145315219&page=1#1157994747


you'll have to get pickup advice from someone else. i mostly use vintage voiced HBs and play either clean or with a bit of 'blues distortion'. no shredder here. heck, i don't even know what the definition of shredding IS unless you're talking sk8boards....

[beckerologly]

hehe, well im not really much of a shredder, thats why I want to desperately avoid those sorts of sounds when i DO play fast. Blues distortion rules!!
Oh and thats a genius idea on that thread you gave me (starting it that is), it should have been at the top so I saw it earlier!
well that pretty much wraps it up I think, until I actually wire the thing, then I may have some problems... in that case ill need to know how to stack the coil diferently, as you said, however that works.
Thanks for the help...

[humbuckr]

hi - I'm the new guy here.

I've been on Project guitar's forum and got some good advice on this basic topic. According to "unklemickey" GN2 is the 'real deal'.

my thread over there projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=26335
asks a lot of the same questions as this one although the details here are great.

I'm building my first project guitar and have vectored in on split-5 wiring and using push pulls to do coil splitting. My hope is to get more "detail" and dynamic range in the tone of the instrument rather than the midrange bias of humbuckers.

I have push pull pots for 1 volume, 1 tone.

OK, my question finally how does the diag on this thread support the use of push pulls for coil splitting?

Thanks. I promise to post pics as the guitar comes along. Its chambered, carve top and bottom, (mahogony, fiddleback maple, warmoth 25.5" compound radius neck)

Don't ask me why I don't spend half the money and buy a guitar off the shelf!

[UnklMickey]

hi Humbucker,

welcome to GuitarNuts2.

take a look in the Schematics section, and see if anything there looks close to what you want.

i don't think anyone has post an HSH, but we might adapt an HH or SSH to suit your needs.

the switches in the drawing are (3 position) mini-toggles (on-on-on), configured for series/split/parallel. so if you wired push-pulls like that, you would only get series/parallel.

at any rate, you should probably open a new thread. there should be much discussion regarding the direction you want to take your particular scheme.

there are many decisions you need to make regarding configuration (HSH or perhaps HHH?), local treatment of HBs (series, parallel, split. mini-toggle? rotary? push-pull?) pickup combinations parallel only? series option? out-of-phase? and of course, how complex or simple you want the switches to be.

if don't really find HBs to be 'middy', but then i use covered, mildly wound HBs. i imagine hotter winds would have an entirely different character.


cheers,

unk

[beckerologly]

Hi, im just about to rewire the guitar, but I stumbled apon the Quiting the Beast mod. Now, i think i should do it. However, I get very confused in the later steps moving all the ground wires and especially removing the 'ground loop wires' between the pots.
From my limited understanding, I thought that all you had to do was sheild the cavities with foil, and ground the sheild to the tremelo claw. Now what is with all this extra stuff? I cant comprehend it properly (my excuse is that my guitar is not a Fender). How much of this do I have to do? If i understood it id do it gladly, its just I dont want to screw thigns up by making modifications only applicable to Fenders.
Cheers

[UnklMickey]

beckerologly said:

..How much of this do I have to do? ...

realistically, none of it.

the biggest benefit is the shielding itself.

having the signal ground separated from the shield ground and then coupling the shield (and string) ground through a capacitor does provide protection against an extremely rare possibility of DC shock, but i don't do that on my own guitars.

although others here will disagree, i think the simplest approach is to ground everything to the case of the volume pot.

[beckerologly]

Ok, so I just have to:
sheild the cavity and pickguard and make sure they contact eachother with the foil
connect the wire that goes from the volume pot to the trem claw so that it contacts teh alfoil somewhere along the way.. (or is it better to connect the foil to the volume pot with an extra wire?)
and im allowed to have the pots contacting the foil? or the stwitches? I am aware that the output jack shouldnt touch it, but yeah.
Thanks heaps unk, Il post some pics and mp3s when Im done (btw i went for the Breed neck).

[UnklMickey]

if you are careful not to tear the foil on the back of the pickguard when you mount the pots, the bushings of the pots will make good contact to the foil (check with an meter to be certain).

if you have the cavity foil come up and under the edge of the pickguard (but not so far that it extends past the edge), then when the pickguard is attached, it will make good contact with the cavity shielding.

so, you don't necessarily need any extra wires to connect the shielding.

this is all %uming a$$uming you aren't trying to do the shock prevention cap scheme.

[darkcyde]

here is one that I found that Steve Aloha did called the FrankenStrat
Hope this helps

[darkcyde]

good to see I was watching the date on that post :-)