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Post by newey on May 21, 2023 6:37:33 GMT -5
I've attached a screen that has a wire going from the vol pot lug to the ring connector - is this incorrect? I tried to make a black line around it... The diagram is certainly hard to read at that point, but yes, it's incorrect. Only the thin black line (i.e., wire) from the cap connects to the ring lug. The thicker black wire from the V pot lug goes under the cap to the grounding point . Grounding the trem to the cavity shielding is fine, provide that the shielding eventually connects to the jack negative. If you were doing a star ground, the negative jack wire would go to the star ground point. If you are not star grounding, then connecting it to the V pot 3rd lug is fine, provided that lug is also, in turn, grounded. Components that might shock you (which would include touching the trem/bridge) should be grounded through the cap. So these things, including the shielding, connect before the cap, and the other end of the cap connects to the jack negative. Your guitar signal ground does not connect through the cap, only the shielding grounds do so. |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 21, 2023 11:20:06 GMT -5
I had some time this AM to look at the picture. I added some arrows and tried to blowup the picture a bit. Wire labeled as #1 should be attached between the safety cap and the ring that goes under the vol /tone pot (it goes to the neg output jack). Wire labeled as #2 (goes to the trem claw) should attach to the ring with all the other ground wires. Doing it this way has all the pickup/pot/trem claw grounds attaching to a ring before the safety cap, and the only wire on the other side of the safety cap (between the safety cap and the ring that attaches to the vol/tone pot is the wire to the neg output jack. Please let me know if this is correct?
Since I'm a bedroom guitar player and my vintage fender amp has a 3 prong cord, it sounds like I may not need the 'safety cap". If I remove it, basically the grounds attach to the vol/tone pot with a wire in between to the neg output jack?
thanks for all the assistance.
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Post by newey on May 21, 2023 21:47:14 GMT -5
Wire labeled as #2 (goes to the trem claw) should attach to the ring with all the other ground wires. Doing it this way has all the pickup/pot/trem claw grounds attaching to a ring before the safety cap, and the only wire on the other side of the safety cap (between the safety cap and the ring that attaches to the vol/tone pot is the wire to the neg output jack. Please let me know if this is correct?
Nope, sorry. The wire from the trem claw (which you have labeled as #2) attaches to the cap. Also attached to the cap is the ring connector that sits under the pot shaft to ground the pickguard shielding. The other end of the cap is attached to the grounding point, so that the trem claw and shielding are both grounded through the capacitor. Wire #1 runs from the grounding point to the Vol pot CW lug and from there to the jack -. This is just a different way of running that ground, instead of running a separate wire to the grounding point, the two are just daisy-chained together. I've made wire #1 blue so you can see it better:  |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 21, 2023 22:08:24 GMT -5
oh ok, thanks. so the diagram is correct as originally posted?
In reference to the wire from the trem claw to the cap - does it matter where it makes contact with the cap - what I mean is, in the diagram it attaches on the other side of the other gnd wires - does it have to attach there? For some reason I thought that the output jack gnd needed to come after the cap and prior to the pot attachment.
If I was to eliminate the safety cap, the wiring would be the same minus the cap, that is a ring connector with the pickup/pot gnds, and then a wire with another ring connector to the bottom of the pot?
sorry for all the questions - appreciate the help...
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Post by newey on May 22, 2023 4:55:35 GMT -5
Yes, if you eliminate the cap it is the same minus the cap
Yes, it needs to attach there if the cap is being used- we want the cap to be between the ground and the trem and shielding. As I said, this is an alternate way of doing the cap. It does leave the Vol pot wiring "outside" of the cap, but that's OK, you wouldn't be able to touch that wiring so as to get shocked, since it will be sealed away under the pickguard. The pot shell (which could be touched by the player, if metal knobs are being used) is grounded through the cap, via contact with the shielding.
Again, unless you're playing through a vintage tube amp or playing somewhere where you can't be sure of the AC circuitry, the cap isn't truly needed.
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 22, 2023 11:54:07 GMT -5
If I remove the cap, do all of the gnd wires attach of the ring and then to the pot gnd? Or should all the gnd wires attach to the ring, and then the trem gnd after, and then to the pot gnd?
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Post by newey on May 22, 2023 18:51:48 GMT -5
If you're eliminating the cap, just wire the trem ground to the same place as all the other grounds, a ring if that's what you're using. And it's fine to go from that point to the V pot and to the output as shown on the diagram.
You're overthinking this. Ultimately, all of the grounds are going to be collected together and connected to the jack sleeve. Once the cap is out of the equation, the order in which they get to the ground is irrelevant so long as they all get there.
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 23, 2023 14:27:14 GMT -5
ok, I was just thinking 😀...I've attached the wiring I just used. Look ok?
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Post by unreg on May 23, 2023 15:33:49 GMT -5
bluesman13, reread this post: Ultimately, all of the grounds are going to be collected together and connected to the jack sleeve. Once the cap is out of the equation, the order in which they get to the ground is irrelevant so long as they all get there. 
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Post by newey on May 23, 2023 16:03:54 GMT -5
bluesman13- Your diagram looks fine, although I don't see the ring connector under the pot shaft to ground the shielding and pot shells. (I didn't know whether you intended that as being included with/connected to the trem ground or not.) But that needs to go to the grounding point as well. Note that the ring connector is not necessary if you are going to screw the washer with the grounds into the cavity shielding. If you are going to leave the grounding point "free-floating", then you will need to have the ring connector mounted under the pot shaft, as shown on the diagram from ssstonelover. Aso, if the grounding point- ring/washer/whatever - is free-floating, put some electrical tape over it before you button up things, so that it doesn't touch a hot connection somewhere once you stuff everything under the pickguard and screw the guard down.
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 23, 2023 16:34:41 GMT -5
bluesman13- Your diagram looks fine, although I don't see the ring connector under the pot shaft to ground the shielding and pot shells. (I didn't know whether you intended that as being included with/connected to the trem ground or not.) But that needs to go to the grounding point as well. In my diagram, the wire from the trem ground goes to the ring connecter along with all of the grounds, then a single wire connects to another ring connector which is attached under the vol pot (which is in contact with the copper shielding tape which is on the back of the pickguard.
I previously had the trem gnd going to a screw in the shielded body cavity but removed that and attached the trem ground directly to the ring connector with the other grounds as in the pic.
Sound ok? thanks for the assistance.
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Post by newey on May 23, 2023 18:14:39 GMT -5
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 23, 2023 23:53:50 GMT -5
👍 thanks!
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 25, 2023 15:43:30 GMT -5
I apologize if I am beating a dead horse. I was just looking at the original drawing - the part that is confusing me is that the trem claw gnd wire is attached after the safety cap and before the ring attaches to the vol pot. If the output jack neg is the part that gnds everything, wouldn't that wire be attached between the safety cap and the ring connector to the vol pot?
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Post by newey on May 25, 2023 22:10:35 GMT -5
If the output jack neg is the part that gnds everything, wouldn't that wire be attached between the safety cap and the ring connector to the vol pot? The cap needs to be between the output jack neg on one end, and both the ring connector and the trem ground at the other. |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on May 27, 2023 14:35:09 GMT -5
ok, thanks for the clarification.
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Post by ssstonelover on May 31, 2023 2:31:43 GMT -5
If the output jack neg is the part that gnds everything, wouldn't that wire be attached between the safety cap and the ring connector to the vol pot? The cap needs to be between the output jack neg on one end, and both the ring connector and the trem ground at the other. Newey, Is this what you mean?  |
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Post by newey on May 31, 2023 5:42:42 GMT -5
ssstonelover- No, that's not what I meant. Your original diagram was fine. The cap has one end connected to both the string/trem ground and the cavity shielding, the other end is connected to the star grounding point (and from there to the jack negative). Rather than continue to explain this verbally, ChrisK's thread on The "Blocking" Capacitor has useful diagrams of the concept. However, note that on the second diagram, using the cap, the blue wire from the cap is shown as just touching the V pot shell, it really should be better shown as attaching to point "B" on the back of the pot shell. The basic idea here is that, if a component cannot possibly be touched by the player, there is no shock hazard and that component does not need to be isolated by the cap. The pickups themselves, for example, on a Strat would be unlikely to be touched while playing, and are typically covered by a plastic cover, so unless one was touching the pole pieces (unlikely), there would be no danger. For a HB-equipped guitar, with metal covers, the cap should be connected to the cover shield wires to isolate those as well. Note that Chris also showed the (typically plastic) Strat pickguard as an "operator-touchable component". He did so because, first, metal pickguards for Strats exist although perhaps not common, and second, the pickguard screws are touchable and are connected through the shielding, so could potentially be a source of shock hazard. ChrisK was a bit militant on this topic. Certainly, if one is using a wireless setup (an "RF cable", as Chris used to call it), there is no hazard, and with modern amps/circuits the risk is minimal anyway. If one is gigging, his advice to use an outlet tester and a GCFI is still a good practice just to be on the safe side. But he and I were/are both old enough to remember Keith Relf, this is not just a theoretical hazard. For those not familiar with Keith or his tragic death, well, there's Google.
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Post by ssstonelover on May 31, 2023 10:53:30 GMT -5
ssstonelover- No, that's not what I meant. Your original diagram was fine. The cap has one end connected to both the string/trem ground and the cavity shielding, the other end is connected to the star grounding point (and from there to the jack negative). Rather than continue to explain this verbally, ChrisK's thread on The "Blocking" Capacitor has useful diagrams of the concept. However, note that on the second diagram, using the cap, the blue wire from the cap is shown as just touching the V pot shell, it really should be better shown as attaching to point "B" on the back of the pot shell. When words get in the way, yes, it happens. Overall language is a necessary tool but not always exact. Since a visual is what we need I've come up with 2 drawings to better match your underlying thoughts. -One is a partial redraw of the ChrisK "Blocking" post -The other is a rework of the "Homage" post Both should do the trick, let me know... I used the 'blue' and 'red' theme for both drawings (as depicted by ChrisK) so it is clear what is screened by (or free from) the blocking capacitor  |
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