"4 Caster" Wiring

[ChrisK]

OK, I can't take it anymore.

All of your tone circuits are on drugs.

What is that, a vone pot or a tolume pot? ;D ;D

[newey]

All of your tone circuits are on drugs

Apparently, you see a problem, which is why I posted it, since I was unsure. While mockery is probably appropriate, a hint would be better!

I wasn't sure if the tone control could be daisy-chained to the volume in that way, but I couldn't think of a reason why not.

[sumgai]

newey,

Pay no attention to the little engineer behind the curtain - his meds have been tampered with!

;D

I saw it too, and wondered how long it would take for you to catch on......... you have noted, I'm sure, that I'm not too quick to contribute any drawings here, eh? The point is, the tone control's wiper is going to the volume pot, but the signal is coming into the tone pot on the "hot" terminal, as if it were a volume control. Oy vay! Simply move that "incoming" wire to the wiper, and all will be well. Trace it out, and if need be, compare your results closely with other circuits here, and you'll see why.

HTH




sumgai

[ChrisK]

I apologize, It wasn't actually directed to you.

I should have said "youns"* since it was left unattended by all reviewers to date.

You (yourself) actually only have one tone circuit in your design.


Of course, the next time that I allow something to persevere.....


* all y'all (all)

[wolf]

Heck, I just do the redrawing - I don't pay attention to the wires.

(Actually, if it were a mistake in a toggle switch wiring I darned well would have found it).

[ChrisK]

.....a vone pot or a tolume pot?

Hmmm, The FREE Neck On Switch

[newey]

Some pages ago in this thread, Ash said:

I'm thinkng the wire coming from SW3 to Mas. T should connect to the middle lug of that there pot. You could jumper the two lugs which don't have the cap, which accomplishes the same thing.

So it wasn't "left unattended by all reviewers" after all.

I had seen his comment, and meant to make the change, but got all wrapped up in that there nifty blend pot thingy . . .

[ChrisK]

I know. It's raining and my wife keeps texting me from Williamsburg VA about the nasty weather. I needed some diversion.

Apparently it's raining many places (or most have nothing to do on a cloud-day afternoon).


I do the tone pot that way too. It's more convenient for mounting the cap.
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=3153

[newey]

Apparently it's raining many places (or most have nothing to do on a cloud-day afternoon)

Truth. I did manage to plant an azalea, in the pouring rain, in between jabbering away at this post.

EDIT And +1 to Ash for being "Johnny-on-the-spot-the-error"

[wolf]

Harumph. Plus 1 for spotting an error but redraw an entire diagram??
No not that I'm complaining or anything.

[newey]

No, Wolf, you're right, I gotta spread the love . . .

+1

[wolf]

Shucks, thanks newey - not that I was shamelessly griping in a blatant attempt to gain a Karma Point™ or anything like that.
Well maybe a little.

____________________________________________

Well, now that I got the Karma Point™ I figured I'd go back and work on that schematic to make it a little neater.

[newey]

So, I'm reaching back to update this post. Got the refinishing done, mounted the bridge and neck, installed the heads. Still have to "pick up some pick ups" and cut 2 more pup holes in the guard. And . . . wiring.

And I ordered the switches from Mouser, since their DPDT On-On-Ons were cheaper (@$6.67) than the Gibby-style SPDTs from any number of suppliers. I ordered a extra one just in case one was, shall we say, "Gefooey". They came in yesterday, my first experience with Mouser was totally seamless.

But, assuming the switches are all ok, I have 4 of them. And, last time I checked, this was GNutz2! ;D

So, using Wolf's excellent diagram as a starting point, I figure the 2 vol. pots can come off the 2nd pole of SW1 and SW2, respectively, since both will now be DPDTs. That I think I can redraw w/o a problem, I'll get that redrawn soon.

The blend control, I think, gets replaced w/ SW3, as per my original plan, giving 1+3/1+2+3+4/2+4. This gets all the parallel combos as per the original plan.

Which leaves me with the 2nd pole on SW3 open, and, did I mention I have a 4th DPDT?

I'm thinking it could be wired so as to give me additionally 1+3*2+4/1+2+3+4/??

I don't know if the 3rd position could be made to be 1+3 OOP w/ 2+4. I'm thinking I may be short a pole to do that though, or at least to be able to do series OOP between the 2 pairs of pups.

Gentlemen??

[ashcatlt]

I'm a little confused about what you're looking for here. What are you doing with the volume controls? There's only one in the diagram above. Are we back to seperate volume for each set? Don't think you need a second pole for that.

I think you might use the second pole on SW1 and SW2 for the signal return side of the pickups connected thereto. You'll need to remove the permanent connection to ground anyway if you're shooting for any series/parallel or OoP. Now you can use the output of these switches just like the 2 wires coming from a pickup.

Should be able to use one of your switches for series/parallel, another to select phase for one of the groups, and a third to short across the unused group so that the function of what you're calling SW3 above remains functional in both series and parallel mode.

Wait, did I run out of switches?

[newey]

Ash-

Yeah, back to the 2 vols, you're right I wasn't very clear on that. And I don't need the extra poles for that, I was just going to use them anyway for that.

Since these are ON-ON-ON style switches, if I use one for series/parallel, I'd have an unused switch position (although not an unused pole)

What I visualize here is SW1 and SW2 govern pickups 1 and 3, 2 and 4 respectively, as per the original plan. The two pairs come together at SW3, also as per the original plan. The extra switch (potentially SW4) would be used to give series/parallel and whatever as between the 2 pairs only. Thus, for example, 1 and 3 would always be parallel with each other, but could be placed in series with 2and/or 4.

essentially, the question is what to do with SW3 (one unused pole left) and SW4 (open question).

[newey]

An update:

With much help from Wolf and ChrisK, I think I'm in the home stretch on a wiring diagram for this project. After much thought, I've scrapped the DPDT switches for 4 SPDT on-ons with a blender for mixing the 2 pairs of pups.


This gives 24 combinations of the 4 pickups. It omits the between-pair series options, the only series is intra-pair of pups.

This ought to provide a nice selection of sounds, and the 4 mini-switches will easily fit roughly where the 5-way woud normally go. With 4 pups, one would think the 4 switches were just on-off switches for each pickup, but they do so much more in this configuration.




LEGEND: "U" = Switch Up, "D" = Switch Down
"MA" = Mid A, "MB" = Mid B
"+" = parallel, "*" = series

[newey]

Well, it's not yet finished, but it's in final mockup. The neck is not yet bolted on, the pickguard is not secured, and the wiring isn't done (or even begun . . .) But here's what it will look like:







Once it's done, I'll do a gallery post. But I wanted to give a sneak preview to Andy, in particular, who long ago said he'd like to see a 4-pickup Strat- and I said I'd build it. Not quite there yet, but this is what a 4 pickup Strat looks like around my house.

As to how it sounds (aah, yes . . . that . . .), we'll just have to wait and hear.

[andy]

Liking your work, Newey!

Which pickups did you choose in the end? (And thanks for the PM, I would have missed this one without it!)

[newey]

Pickups 1 and 3 are Fender "Vintage '57" RIs, 2 and 4 are "Vintage 62" RI's. I don't know how different these types will sound (apart from positioning differences). But I got these used, in mint condition, for $40 for all 4 so I couldn't refuse.

Originally, I was shooting for using the SCNs, but I couldn't justify over $200 worth of pups in a rehabbed $10 Strat body with a $20 SX neck on it- something there just didn't add up.

My poor photography doesn't really show it off very well. The finish is Krylon rattle-can, it didn't come out too bad considering the ratty body I started with. The guard is the classic Mint green color although, again, the pix don't really show that very well. Pickup covers to match. I have a set of Mint green Strat knobs I was going to use, but it bothered me that I couldn't get one that said "Blend" on it (a bit of OCD, I know), so I splurged on these nifty black ones w/ abalone tops. They say nothing on them and are therefore interchangeable.

[andy]

Yeah, I don't know how much hotter the '62s are than the '57s, but for $40, it's worth finding out as you go!

And does the Krylon end up with a gloss finish? It looks quite shiny, but of course the flash can give that impression- I used Plasti-kote once, and it was quite matte. Good choice of colour too- I've always been a fan of the daphne/sonic blue on Fenders.

By the by, I wouldn't mind a set of knobs with 'knob' written on the top. I never read them anyway! ;D

[ChrisK]

Knob knob?

[newey]

To go along with the knob knobs, one would need an LP toggle switch plate that read "toggle" on upper half and "switch" on the lower part. ;D

[andy]

He He! The fact that I laughed so much at both those posts is the exact reason I want 'Knob' knobs.

I hadn't thought of the 'Toggle Switch' toggle switch, but my SG is now lined up for both!

[ChrisK]

To go along with the knob knobs, one would need an LP toggle switch plate that read "toggle" on upper half and "switch" on the lower part.

You betcha'!

One wouldn't want to be inadvertantly a'togglin' when they was aimin' to be advertantly a'switchin'.

Unlessin' they's a female member of the population, and then they'd still be a'togglin' even after they'd a'switched.


A'togglin' is what they do.

A'switchin' is what we do (and why we're always a'wrong.)


(Or so I'm told.)

[newey]

And does the Krylon end up with a gloss finish? It looks quite shiny, but of course the flash can give that impression-

Theoretically, it's supposed to be glossy. The way it came out, it's not exactly Matte but it's not a high gloss either. I am given to understand that a bit of polishing rouge and a lamb's wool polishing wheel for the drill can give it a high gloss finish, 3M polishing papers are supposed to work well also.

I'm debating it, but I may just leave it as is, I'm afraid of thinning it out too much at the corners and curves.

[ChrisK]

[newey]

What a hoot! ;D ;D ;D

Ok, so some others had similar ideas . . . ;D

[newey]

Bump. "Cause I needed to consult the diagram as I try to troubleshoot this.

[newey]

Resurrecting this ancient thread, since I finally got some time last night to troubleshoot this further. I've been driving myself crazy with this for the past 2.5 years, when the rare occasions rolled around where I got time to work on it.

Every since I first wired it up, I had output from the binary tree switching arrangement to the blender, but then nothing from the blender. Finally got that sorted one night about a year ago- but then got nothing from the pots out to the jack. Got so frustrated, it's been sitting ever since- and I didn't have much spare time to delve into it.

Last night I decided to rewire the controls starting with the jack and working backwards towards the blend pot. Found out that the CW lug on the volume pot was broken- it was just hanging by a thread of metal, it snapped off with just a tug on the wire!

These were used pots to begin with, all the parts on this axe were recycled except for the custom pickguard. I had checked it before inserting it and got a good 500K reading (w/in spec, anyway), but apparently the lug was cracked already, to the point where contact was iffy, (and then nonexistent after a tug on the wire).

So, I put 2 new pots in just to be sure, wired it up, and IT WORKS! Got all pickups operational on the screw driver test, all the switching does what its supposed to do, the blender seems to blend as intended.

Full testing, gallery photos, and sound clips will have to await strings and set-up. Still some little odds and ends to complete. It's been so long in the process, I can't find where I put the black pickguard screws; I only have 3 holding the guard on and none for the backplate. And I went to string it late last night, just to put one or two one so I could eyeball the saddle heights, and found that I hadn't drilled for or installed the little locating screws on the tuners, so they twisted around in the holes when I tried to put a string on them. Those screws I found (luckily- they're tiny!), so I should get it up and running this weekend.

More to follow . . .

[thetragichero]

never read this thread, but i guess i got the colour scheme for that one strat through osmosis?
also, lemme know if you need some black pickguard screws... i have some left from the surf green strat and would be happy to put them in an envelope to send to you

edit: i have 10 spare black screws, just found them