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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 7, 2021 11:51:33 GMT -5
this history on the guitar is cool. communism failing again open trade between the to worlds. sharing music. interesting thought the instrument it was designed after is also a instrument the chinese play and i believe the mongolians also play a 3 string instrument. i know the chinese version has the huge pick they use to do this slap style its badass i will say. i saw a mongolian heavy metal band using them pretty cool so so much innovation with other instruments in rock and roll. thetragichero btw is that reverb a good place to sell stuff wanna sell or trade my fender champ for a tube amp if at all possible or a amp that models tubes better then the fender champ voice modeling. |
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 7, 2021 13:33:15 GMT -5
psiloguitarensis it depends on what you're selling. if it's something desirable, the 5% or whatever reverb fee is well worth getting your gear in front of a potential worldwide audience, processing payment, etc (their safe shipping is significantly easier than carrier insurance when something gets damaged in transit) if it's something lower end, craigslist/facebook marketplace is probably a better bet as long as you keep your pricing reasonable. i could be wrong, do some searching on reverb (especially with the sold items filter) there is a market for solid state amps but it's geared more towards the older 70s/80s sunn/acoustic/peavey amps rather than the newer examples.
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 7, 2021 16:50:07 GMT -5
appreciate that info. i thinking about selling to buy a mojo diy tube amp or something similar or even one ready to go.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 7, 2021 18:57:50 GMT -5
Mojo has some great kits for the money, and I think they use Heyboer Iron, which is very good.
Just to clarify, China is still an oppressive Authoritarian regime. They just use some more exploitive Capitalistic business practices to increase profit for the business classes under their control. It's the opposite philosophy of the communist-inspired Anarcho-syndicalist model used in the Mondragon Co-Ops of Spain, which are arguably the most successful and democratic workplaces on earth, but this is not the place for such discussions.
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Post by newey on Dec 7, 2021 21:36:10 GMT -5
Or not.  But I take your point. cynical1 would probably agree. |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 7, 2021 21:50:57 GMT -5
Or not. But I take your point. cynical1 would probably agree. My bad, I meant to say this is not the place for such discussions. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 9, 2021 11:00:40 GMT -5
thanks for the info i posted on reverb and the facebook market place.
more vids i watch more im digging those bedroom tube amps.
question on those tube amps. i notice they are 5 watts which is low but thinking of 2 15's in a open cab would net a fair good tone im thinking.
now my question for the amp is a 5 watt tube amp head going to push 2 low watt 15's well correct? seems i was reading tube amps are quite a bit louder then SS amps of equal power is that correct?
didnt know about mondragon which im studying now to learn of it. i
be more then glad to discuss politics esle where for sure . i go on a talk board for free speech to do my ramblings of that stuff.
i did however find that paint scheme quite a political statement which looked far beyond flags flying side by side. everyday you can learn something and i love i can learn history as well studying guitars so badass.
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 9, 2021 12:51:28 GMT -5
now my question for the amp is a 5 watt tube amp head going to push 2 low watt 15's well correct? seems i was reading tube amps are quite a bit louder then SS amps of equal power is that correct? Not really correct. Here are a few ways bad information like that takes root: 1 - If both amps are rated for RMS output at low distortion, a tube amp will be capable of reaching higher power levels with soft distortion that's not too unpleasant where a solid state amp is likely to clip hard and sound pretty awful above the rated output. 2 - In the early days of solid state amps, many of them were rated at peak power without regard to distortion. So you'd be comparing apples to oranges. 3 - For a while guitar market was flooded with solid state amps with cheap, horribly inefficient speakers. Which brings us to the bottom line ... The power rating on a speaker is NOT directly related to its efficiency. Saying "2 low watt 15's" doesn't give us enough information. A speaker that produces 86dB SPL @ 1W, 1 meter distance will sound half as loud as one that produces 98dB SPL @ 1W, 1 meter distance. |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 9, 2021 17:10:42 GMT -5
thanks for the info i posted on reverb and the facebook market place. more vids i watch more im digging those bedroom tube amps. question on those tube amps. i notice they are 5 watts which is low but thinking of 2 15's in a open cab would net a fair good tone im thinking. now my question for the amp is a 5 watt tube amp head going to push 2 low watt 15's well correct? seems i was reading tube amps are quite a bit louder then SS amps of equal power is that correct? didnt know about mondragon which im studying now to learn of it. i be more then glad to discuss politics esle where for sure . i go on a talk board for free speech to do my ramblings of that stuff. i did however find that paint scheme quite a political statement which looked far beyond flags flying side by side. everyday you can learn something and i love i can learn history as well studying guitars so badass. As well as what retread wrote, tube amps interact with speaker impedance so the midrange generally compressess more than the high end or the bass resonance point of the speaker. Along with the more gradual clip, it does sound louder. Some newer analog SS amps mimic that interactive behavior. Unless you plan to gig out and need high stage volume, you don't need two 15" speakers to get strong bass. Two speakers can be more useful in separate cabs. The bass response of a given speaker depends on the cab size and the porting. The Weber '1230-55' is a great sounding Celestion G12H30-55Hz copy for a lot less money. Bass is strong, deep and tight. The cloth surround camps the cone resonance so it's not harsh like the mid '70s Blackbacks, yet has high end into the 6kHz range. It's an ideal classic rock/blues speaker if that appeals to you. You might prefer something brighter or more American-voiced depending on you're amp choice. WGS has some very nice afforble options including a sweet American-voiced 15". It's not as tight as the Weber 1230-55, so there is more resonance and "masking" -- more of a specialized tone you'd really have know that you'd want. There's an inexpensive 1x12 pine cab on the web you might try. Pine cabs sound very nice, and you can try it closed or open to see which you prefer. You could Also stuff fiber pillows behind the speaker to see if you prefer less midrange coloring. Would be a cheap experiment anyway. |
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 9, 2021 22:47:38 GMT -5
5ish watt single-ended amp like a champ plus a halfway decent 10" speaker (in this scenario you're either rolling your own amp or jamming a 10" speaker inside the champ's cabinet) should be more than enough volume for just about anything (really the only time you're needing more is crappy dive bar gigs without decent pa reinforcement. anything with a decent pa and a mic in front of the amp you could even play a stadium with it)
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 10, 2021 0:52:07 GMT -5
ok awesome info thank you. i found a couple of small tube amps that will work just fine once i get this guitar working dang it.
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 10, 2021 5:49:40 GMT -5
Hmm am I the only one to notice the double resurrection in this thread ?
Anyways, devices are doing miracles those days, to the point that one single guitar can suffice. However for those (like me) that cannot disconnect from their past, a HSH, floyd, scalloped 22-fret maple fret, white strat is always welcome.
Just look at this guy:
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 10, 2021 6:22:11 GMT -5
20 string guitar? You know, before they tacked a neck to that thing I believe they used to call that a zither...
Good the see you again, Greek. Speaking of "modifiable platforms", how's the 7 string Ibanez holding up?
HTC1
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 10, 2021 11:31:43 GMT -5
ok ok so if i choose to build on from schematics 5 watts will suffice awesome!! i did notice that the doping of the speaker controls tone more then i thought. i saw that weber and thats a nice looking product.
i found 2 amps im going to consider so i dont have to do build an amp is a bugera 5w or the monoprice 15.
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 10, 2021 12:54:37 GMT -5
20 string guitar? You know, before they tacked a neck to that thing I believe they used to call that a zither... Good the see you again, Greek. Speaking of "modifiable platforms", how's the 7 string Ibanez holding up? HTC1
Hi Cyn1, all good here! I am glad you are here and I assume well! Lots of things happened in the meantime in my life. I got employed in an USA company, then resigned, I got into a band then broke up (the singer left this world). My daughter got admitted to the polytechnic institute. Still struggling with the rest of issues in life. Ibanez 7-string after the Cyn1-looking guy took care of it is very stable. The same happened with the Carvin!
Maybe I'll abandon and ideas about guitars and start looking at amps, its not too late!
Hey, how are your daughter, your daughter, your Ubuntu Studio?
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 10, 2021 18:57:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I've been away for a while, and a lot has happened. I'll send you a PM. Good to see you darkening the towels around here.
Glad the Ibanez is still behaving. Too bad about the Carvin. They tend to be more consistent, but hey, might have been made late on a Friday...
HTC1
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 10, 2021 21:18:12 GMT -5
ok ok so if i choose to build on from schematics 5 watts will suffice awesome!! i did notice that the doping of the speaker controls tone more then i thought. i saw that weber and thats a nice looking product. if you end up deciding to build a champ/single-ended amp, do yourself a favor and throw a choke and another capacitor before the plate node of your power supply. single-ended amps don't have common mode hum rejection like a push/pull amp would so this will quiet it down considerably (probably wasn't nearly as much of an issue on the super cheap 8" speaker fender used, see also horrible filament grounding scheme, but if you're looking to make a serious amp it's worth the extra ten bucks in parts) |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 11, 2021 2:16:09 GMT -5
ok ok so if i choose to build on from schematics 5 watts will suffice awesome!! i did notice that the doping of the speaker controls tone more then i thought. i saw that weber and thats a nice looking product. i found 2 amps im going to consider so i dont have to do build an amp is a bugera 5w or the monoprice 15. The Monprice Stage Right 15 is a low voltage class AB amp modeled after a 15W Laney. Nice amp for the money, but hard to get a clean sound from due to the gain staging. There are some recommended mods and or tube changes that can help. That Bugera 5W sounds nice in the demos, and the stock speaker is apparently very good. The 0.1W feature will be very useful for late night playing with some amp overdrive. I assume you could hook up an external cab if you want more bass. There's no midrange reducing tone stack, so the amp should have a full midrange response. Being a somewhat scooped speaker, I bet it would sound awesome through a Weber 1230-55. I'd try a few different tubes as well. The new EHx 7025EH (Mil-spec 12ax7) sounds like the old Mullards with a bit less gain -- very low noise with a round high-end character and no discernable microphonics. The EL84 can also be directly replaced with a soviet 6P14P variant for a bigger/warmer sound. I think this "-K" variant is the one to get: www.vivatubes.com/true-nos-soviet-russia-6p14p-k-el84-6bq5-vacuum-tube/The "-EV" (Mil-spec) variants are supposedly too brittle sounding for audio use. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 11, 2021 14:45:43 GMT -5
considering all that ill probably go witrh one those bugera amps and at 119 a piece ill actuallly buy 21 so if i wanna get louder i can run em in stereo mode with my boss gt1 pedal.
i like gig loud but my wife only works weekends at hospital and im out for an injury so i have to be quiet so she dont get mad during week. so buying 2 would be an option so i can be louder when shes gone.
i imagine chaining 2 together would be plenty for me. i did notice those bugeras can be modded easily and could hook up to a cab if one wanted more from it.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 11, 2021 18:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 11, 2021 19:06:46 GMT -5
my bad i got the mono and the bug mixed up.
if i went the mono 5w route i could grab 2 and connect each to LR and have 10 watts but reviews were ehhh compared to any bug product.
those reviews say its great but not bugera great lol.
when my amp sells im going get a bug amp that thing looks sweet demos are awesome.
i will most likel order that weber. also should i order different tubes as well and use the stocks up then replace or do mods right away for tone and long-term usage
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 11, 2021 19:44:58 GMT -5
my bad i got the mono and the bug mixed up. if i went the mono 5w route i could grab 2 and connect each to LR and have 10 watts but reviews were ehhh compared to any bug product. those reviews say its great but not bugera great lol. when my amp sells im going get a bug amp that thing looks sweet demos are awesome. i will most likel order that weber. also should i order different tubes as well and use the stocks up then replace or do mods right away for tone and long-term usage Your call, but I'd try the new tubes right away if money isn't an issue. Maybe order a few of each in case there's a bad one. Better yet, order at least one 6P14P-K and one 6P14P. The 6P14P-K will likely be biased slightly "colder" by the amp due to the higher V limit so it may have some odd harmonics mixed in with the evens. You can try either tube to see which you prefer. Some may recommend a 5751 preamp tube to reduce preamp distortion, but the 7025EH is a lower gain 12ax7 tube anyway, and it's likely the best of the new production 12ax7's with a sweet round overdrive character. I'd just get a few of those. Tubes are somewhat unpredictable, but the ones I recommended are supposed to be well made and very good sounding. You may end up preferring either of the stock tubes. It's all personal taste. As for mods, there are many options out there. Recapping the amp may be worthwhile if you know what you want. The mods in this thread might be worth doing if the tubes and a new 12" speaker don't do enough of what you want: www.tdpri.com/threads/tweaking-the-bugera-v5-circuit.457895/The high end from a 12" guitar speaker only disperses to ~20d off-axis, so you won't really hear the 4kHz+ chime of the 1230-55 if it's pointed away from your ear. There's a simple mod that makes a speaker sound the same as 40d off-axis as at any closer angle. Just cut a 3" hole in the center of a 1/4-1/2" thick sheet of foam rubber and staple it over the speaker. Won't be as much high-end, but it will sound consistent on stage. Let us know how everything works for you. Maybe make a demo video when it's all set up. P.S. I only thought of the 1230-55 because you were thinking of 15" speakers and I know it's had strong bass and sounds great. There are some great 15" guitar speakers for sure, but you won't need all that bass in a small room. Assuming you don't need stage-filling bass from your guitar cabs, you could go with any number of guitar speakers. The 1230-55 should work quite well with the midrangy Bug 5w amp. Maybe consider the medium doping instead of Pre-Rola if you do go for it because the speaker won't be pushed hard enough to really resonate the cone. First, I'd think more about what type of speaker sound you really want. Do you want the more mid-scooped sound of a 1230-55? Would a "looser" more mid-bassy/mid-scooped pre-Rola era Greenback type speaker like the WGS 'Invader 50' be more to your liking? Would you prefer something more midrange and tight like the Weber Ceramic or AlNiCo 'Silverbell', or the more boomy/woody 'Blue Dog'? Perhaps you would prefer a very flat, deep and woody sounding speaker like the WGS 'G12C/S', or a brighter/more metallic version of that like the Weber 'California' (like a JBL D120) or something in between like the 'CV123' that smooth amp overdrive better. Duane Alman used the original Cerwin Vega versions of those. It might be a bit hashy with an overdriving EL84 though. I'd skip those last two options, and something mid-scooped would probably be a better match for the amp. The thing about looser (less-damped) speakers is they can't be tightened up. A tighter speaker can be somewhat loosened in an open cab (or electrically), and the Weber 1230-55 is a tight speaker that doesn't sound harsh that will make the amp sound fuller/wider/bigger. There's also a Britsh speaker builder that makes many versions of a 55Hz cone speaker you might consider for a bit more cash: www.scumbackspeakers.com/h_series.htmlThe 'H55-PVC' model has more treble than the 'H55', but is not as piercing as the 'Blackback H' series with the 444 cones -- BH series are better for more aggressive Rock/Metal styles -- I wouldn't. The paper former in the 25W version will affect the sound due to subtle paper resonances propagating through the cone. 5W won't be any danger to it. It should be more woody sounding with possibly better dynamic sensitivity than the Kapton former versions (which might be more useful with a low power amp), and should still have at least enough bass in an average size room. The standard 'H55' model might be too bassy in your room, but is more classic later-era Hendrix. He mixed in Dual Showman cabs with JBL D130F's in his live rig, so the tone of his G12H30-55 cabs can't be determined. Who can say which H55 model you'd prefer? The BM series with the smaller magnets are just less-damped BH models with looser bass and less treble. The original Celestion Blackback 'G12M25-55' were very good sounding speakers with a more "syrupy" tone than the Blackback 'G12H30-55', so the 'BM55' will have stronger and deeper bass than the 'BM75', but not as much treble as the H55 series. Nice speakers, though-- tough call. The J55 series with the 40 Oz magnets are in between the M55 and H55 series. I guess there's no BJ55 series...doh! They are all pre-Rola doped for less cone resonance. Maybe the builder would be willing to discuss the best choice for the amp if you narrow it down to a few choices? Hey, here's a comparison of the H55 and H55-PVC: The H55 sounds less thin/harsh and more tonally balanced to me. The SM58 mic does boost up to 5dB above 2kHz, so it won't sound quite as bright in person. The Weber 1230-55 actually has the more aggressive 444 cone like the Scumback BH series. I'm not sure how much the cloth surround actually damps the harsh 3.2kHz peak of that cone, so I'd probably pay the extra $50 for either of the H55 series. |
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 11, 2021 21:02:30 GMT -5
dang guess i should start making cabs to sell. hate staples used for fastening. much prefer using hardwood dowels and wood glue. hardware (metal corners) is almost as expensive as the wood |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 11, 2021 23:11:43 GMT -5
dang guess i should start making cabs to sell. hate staples used for fastening. much prefer using hardwood dowels and wood glue. hardware (metal corners) is almost as expensive as the wood Yikes! I didn't notice that. It would be worth at least screwing some corner braces inside to reinforce the structure. Maybe not a great gigging cab either way. There's a vinyl-covered version with metal corners for the same price that might be more structurally sound. One could always make the "AX84" 1x12 cab fairly cheap. |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 12, 2021 17:56:56 GMT -5
Been really obsessing about the Bug V5 and found a few things to consider. The Infinium version is harder to mod, and doesn't really need much altering for a clear bluesy sound. This guy just did one simple mod to open the high-end at lower gain settings. It could be done on both Gain and Volume pots if you think you'll run it without the Volume maxed: Tweaking the Bugera V5 CircuitBright caps could easily be put on switches. I suppose you could use two SP3T with a resistor B4 the cap on one position for a medium bright tone. That would offer 9 voicings when the knobs are below max. It might be nice to have the 3-Way midrange voicing option this guy did, but it may not be possible on the Infinium version, and you could always use an EQ b4 the amp: Tweaking the Bugera V5 CircuitSomeone mentioned there are RCA jacks going to/from the onboard digital reverb. It might be possible to use those as a parallel FX loop, but I wouldn't know. The Infinium feature reduces the output power after a few minutes if all the knobs are maxed, and doesn't return to normal for 4 minutes. Maybe it won't happen with the higher V Russian power tube, but it's something to be aware of. The $50 WGS 'G8C' speaker might be worth a try. It has great bass and high-end extension with a nice mid growl. The $100 'G8A' is more compressed and chimey -- maybe better for a more Voxy tone. Weber offers one like it too, but the full ribbed '8A125T' is probably the best Weber AlNiCo 8" speaker. I noticed Scumback doesn't make 4 Ohm speakers, but the Weber 1230-55 comes in 4 Ohms. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 14, 2021 19:59:44 GMT -5
all that ive read you've helped me alot and i thank you. i really do appreciate it. ive made my mind up and made a list.
i will go for that bug just awesome platform and lots of oppurtunies to upgrade and mod the tone to my liking . for that price amazing package wow. again thank you
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 15, 2021 0:06:04 GMT -5
all that ive read you've helped me alot and i thank you. i really do appreciate it. ive made my mind up and made a list. i will go for that bug just awesome platform and lots of opportunities to upgrade and mod the tone to my liking . for that price amazing package wow. again thank you Sure, man. I guess my obsessions can be useful.  Keep in mind, I wouldn't attempt any of the circuitry mods on the Infinium V5 other than adding bright caps on the pots with switches for them (and maybe a resistor B4 the cap on one position (for which you'd have to research a recommended value). You might also somehow be able to add a cap on a switch in series with the input to reduce bass, but the PCB-mounted jack might make that prohibitive. The PCB components are likely just too small and delicate to mess with. If you do decide to get any 12" speakers, this is a really thorough YT comparison of a bunch of Weber speakers: I actually downloaded the video and ran the audio through an SPL analyzer to check the freq response of a few speakers. The Orange Dark Terror amp is probably closest to the Bugera V5 amp sound, albeit with a lot more gain. The 1230-55 does have stronger bass and treble than most of, if not all, the other speakers. It's also good to see that the harsh 3-3.5kHz "ice pick" range of the 1230-55 is not emphasized, as it is in the Celestion Heritage 'G12H30-55' SPL graph, yet it has a ~6dB 2.4kHz peak for decent clarity. It's still a bit shrill up top, so the Pre-Rola doping (around the inner cone) might be the better choice after all. The 'Legacy' speaker right b4 the 1230-55 clips is the 75Hz cone version with a 40 0z magnet (the 1230-55 has a 50 0z magnet, and the Celestion G12M25-75 "Greenback" has a 35 oz magnet). I think it sounds really nice, but has a bit less low and high end than the 1230-55. It should also work very well with the Bug V5. The heavier 55Hz cone slows the transients, so it still has that syrupy midrange lag with the 50 oz magnet, whereas the 75Hz cone might be too "crisp" with a 50 oz magnet. The 'California 12" also sounds very good to me, but the stronger and faster midrange and the smooth cone are probably not a great match with the V5 amp. The same issue applies to the CV123, which also has less high-end. Some of the other American-voiced speakers have strong bass and high-end with ample mid clarity, but I wouldn't generally recommend them for overdriven EL84 amp sounds. However, the 50W '12F150B' has a 75Hz "Britsh Cone". It's like a WGS Retro 30 (Ceramic-powered Celestion Gold), which can be had for a bit less cash. It has less deep bass than a 55Hz cone speaker, but a bit more 4-4.5kHz chime with an extended shelf up to 8kHz ~6dB below that. I like that one with the Dark Terror amp, but it will have faster transients than the 1230-55. It's not very Hendrixy, if that's what you are looking for. I still like the 1230-55 best. For only $120, there's still the WGS Invader 50. It sounds a lot like the now defunct Celestion 'G12-50GL' "Lynchback". It appears to have a 35 oz magnet, but the beefier coil both lowers the cone resonance and increases low bass response so it's rather scooped, but with an ideal clear, chimey, and sweet high-end that should work very well with the V5. Say, have you considered the Bugera G5? This site has all kinds of amp mods: robrobinette.com/Voicing_an_Amp.htmMany probably can't be done to PCB-based amps, but the "Bright Cap" mod also includes suggested series resistor values. A bright cap apparently makes little difference when the pot is above halfway so you might hold off until you determine where you prefer the volume and gain knobs set. 470pF is likely a bit shrill on an amp without any midrange reduction. I'd try a 100~220pF cap, and add a 100~330k resistor in series with that or a ~470pF on one of the switch positions. |
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Keep in mind, I wouldn't attempt any of the circuitry mods on the Infinium V5 other than adding bright caps on the pots with switches for them (and maybe a resistor B4 the cap on one position (for which you'd have to research a recommended value). You might also somehow be able to add a cap on a switch in series with the input to reduce bass, but the PCB-mounted jack might make that prohibitive. The PCB components are likely just too small and delicate to mess with.