Screwed up, could use some help-done!-pic last pag

[newey]

SG-

Randy clarified at #13 that it's a Gibby-style toggle:

Ok, I said 3 way blade, but not being a guitarist I called it the wrong thing. It is a 3 position toggle like this.
www.stewmac.com/product_images/1lg/1217/Straight_Toggle_Switch_Detail.jpg

And he gets Br + neck with the mid pup off, and the Gibby toggle set in the center.

[randyb]

Jun 19, 2009 20:43:47 GMT -5 newey said:

OK, Randy, here's v2.0:

[IM

You should be able to proceed from this. However, we haven't established what wire color scheme your pickups use (or, if they're even all the same . . )

To ensure that all 3 pickups are in phase with each other, we need to establish which of your wires correspond to my red wires ("+", we'll call these for our purposes) and which of yours correspond to my black ones ("-", we'll say).

This may or may not be obvious.

If it is not, we'll need to know the following info:

How many wires does each pickup have?

Is there a braided shield wire around the outside of the other wires on each one, or not?

What colors are your wires?

Does the HB have 4 wires plus a shield, or fewer? How many? Are any of the HB wires currently tied together?

And, do you know whether all 3 are from the same manufacturer? Any way to tell which manufacturer?

The singles have a white and black wire on each with no shielding.

The HB is a Hamer pick up. It only has 2 wires, a black and a white one, but has a bare wire that wraps around the black wire and a shield(looks like green tin foil) that wraps around the black, white and bare wire.

Manufacturer, humbucker by Hamer...but I am not sure how to tell on the singles. My buddy told me he has a folder that details all the components. It was a custom built guitar so it may not have related pick ups. I will find out in the morning.

Thanks for the wiring diagram and the help on the multimeter.

Randy

[sumgai]

newey,

Ah, I hadn't clicked the link to see the actual switch.

And that would explain where there's no slot for the "blade" switch! (As I had noted earlier.....)

In that case, you're correct, all 7 possible combinations (in parallel only) are available to the player. Plus 1 to ya!



sumgai

[newey]

SG-

Thanks for the good karma!
But, not to pick nits:

In that case, you're correct, all 7 possible combinations (in parallel only) are available to the player. Plus 1 to ya!

No, as I noted, only 6. It doesn't do mid only.

Randy-

Sounds like we can assume the 2 SCs are a pair, while the Hamer HB may well be different. At this point, you have 2 choices:

1) You can wire it up, using the black wires where the red ones are shown on the diagram, white wires substitute for the black ones on the diagram, and the shield wires (bare and foil) on the HB go to ground on the back of the vol pot as well.

This runs the risk that one or more of them will be out of phase if the identical wire colors don't correspond across different brands of pickup. The likelihood would be that the HB would be the one that was off, meaning you'd have to rewire that pickup the opposite way.

2) Since you have an analog meter, you can use the "screwdriver pull-off test" on each pickup to determine proper phasing. The procedure is described somewhere around here, I'll find the link for you.

EDIT:Here's the link: Screwdriver pull-off test

[randyb]

Ok,
Ran my multimeter across stuff and it was an eye opener. Now I get the 3 position switch! 1 on, both on, 2nd on!

Everything else checked out in ways that made sense to me except the 2 position switch. What should I be getting in the way of connectivity?
basically 3 contacts 1 2 3
With switch one way I get no conntectivity between any-must be off position

Flip the switch- on - I get resistance(connection) between 1 2 and nothing between 13 or 23

Is that what should happen?

If so, then in Newey's diagram my wires that come to the two position switch from the middle pickup and volume control are going onto my 1 2 contacts. Right? I don't get the third contact on the two position switch then. I can tell you all three contacts were part of the wiring scheme before I took it apart. Doesn't matter though...I will be pleased to put it together again!

Should I be shielding anything like the control cavity(where the electonics go) before I reassemble here?

Also, tips on soldering. Any tricks on holding wires in place with your third hand while you solder with your other two? You guys are using flux to get solder to stick, yes?

Finally, why does this HB pickup only have two wires when pretty well all the others I see have 4?

Thanks...man I have a lot of questions.
Randyb

[newey]

Your switch is apparently an on-off style. That's ok, we're only using the one side of it anyway. You are correct, 1 and 2 correspond to the diagram, doesn't matter which way. Mark the side that has no contact so you know which is which when you wire it.

If you want to shield it, that's a whole 'nother subject we haven't broached yet. Let us know if you want to go that way. Was it a particularly noisy guitar before you disassembled it?

Now that you see how the three way switch operates, you should be able to translate that to/from the diagram.

The HB only has 2 wires because the other 2 are internally connected, giving both coils in series. The ones with 4 wires allow for coil splitting options that you can't do with the 2-wire ones (unless you take it apart and undo the internal connection). Since you're not splitting the HB coils, the 2-wire type is fine for your purposes.

[randyb]

Nope, wasn't particularly noisy before...I am going to solder er up today. Thanks. I will let you know how it goes...or post when I screw up.


Randyb

[sumgai]

Jun 20, 2009 8:18:33 GMT -5 newey said:

In that case, you're correct, all 7 possible combinations (in parallel only) are available to the player.]/size]

No, as I noted, only 6. It doesn't do mid only.

Ya know, I must really be hung up in some kind of anti-Gibson switch frame of mind.....

Time to go pick some weed(s).....



sumgai

[ashcatlt]

Jun 20, 2009 9:47:43 GMT -5 newey said:

Your switch is apparently an on-off style.

...unless it's broken. It seems to me that it must be an SPST with a frame ground. Is the #3 contact in line with the others (like in newey's drawing), or is it off to the side somewhere? Can you get continuity between that lug and other metal parts of the switch? You'll probably want to connect it to ground for best practices shielding type reasons. That means that newey's original diagram was just fine, though it won't work exactly the way he intended.

[randyb]

Jun 20, 2009 13:34:54 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

Jun 20, 2009 9:47:43 GMT -5 newey said:

Your switch is apparently an on-off style.

...unless it's broken. It seems to me that it must be an SPST with a frame ground. Is the #3 contact in line with the others (like in newey's drawing), or is it off to the side somewhere? Can you get continuity between that lug and other metal parts of the switch? You'll probably want to connect it to ground for best practices shielding type reasons. That means that newey's original diagram was just fine, though it won't work exactly the way he intended.

Crap...I screwed up. The two position switch is NOT on off. The switch has all 3 contacts in a row like Newey's drawing. BUT here is the continuity of it.

If switch is in position 1(I will order lugs A B C) The A B are connected

If switch is in position 2 then B C is connected. So two positions, two different "On"

I am soooo sorry. How does this change my wiring diagram?
Crap.

So I have.
A 3 position switch with left, middle, right on positions
A 2 position switch with two on positions
A volume control
A 1/4 inch jack reciever
2 single pick ups
1 humbucker with only 2 wires and one bare wire

Can I still use Newey's last diagram or do I need another?

Thanks
randyb

[newey]

Randy-

Doesn't change things at all. I was assuming it was an on-on switch to begin with.

We're not using the other contact anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

[ashcatlt]

What do you call a guy who never shows up for practice but is always there just in time to drink all the beer and scare away all the women?

Jun 20, 2009 16:33:26 GMT -5 randyb said:

If switch is in position 1(I will order lugs A B C) The A B are connected

If switch is in position 2 then B C is connected. So two positions, two different "On"

So, like, 0 ohms means continuity...

The B is what we call the "common", or occasionally the "pole". It connects to one of the others (A or C in this case) depending on the position of the lever. It is a lever, even if it's not a "lever switch". This one actually works exactly the same as the other, only the other has a middle position.

newey's scheme still works fine.

BTW - the Electronics Templates thread starts out with a pretty good intro to switches, which would probably make a good stand alone thing somewhere around the Reference section...

[randyb]

Jun 21, 2009 0:10:36 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

What do you call a guy who never shows up for practice but is always there just in time to drink all the beer and scare away all the women?

Funny, I read this and somehow read "screw" when you put "scare" and I was going to reply that any smart guy, especially drummers would fit this bill. Being really smrt I caught my mistake before I posted!!!

Thanks for the help again...I read that switch page which is helping me get my mind around this stuff. The dumb thing I was doing with the 2 position switch was flipping it over to hold the contact against the tester lead when I would flip the switch, so it always seemed like the same two contacts (AB) were on and BC were off. My 10 year old son pointed out what I was doing and told me that it was "making the needle go on the other silver thingy when you push the button over there. See dad, its on there and there!!!" Geez I can be stupid at times!!!!

Maybe he should get a job and I can stay home and play!
Randyb

[randyb]

Soldered her back together tonight minus the HB because it doesn't seem to be working. Couldn't get any resistance(connection) in it when I tested it with my ohm meter. The singles tested just fine. Once I had it all together I plugged her in and it was great to hear guitar sounds wailing out of the amp! I did it with a LOT if help from you guys. Thanks. It was pretty easy once I got going on the soldering and had a wiring diagram to work with. I really appreciate everyone's help here. I was hooped without it.

Another question...how close should the single pick ups be to the strings? The HB was in a frame thing that didn't make me change the height of the pick up, but the singles just have a spring that goes over the mounting screw and I don't know how far in to screw them(That is how close to leave them to the strings.

I will take the HB out tomorrow and take a closer look at it to see if I can spot the problem. If not...do I buy another one?

Again, I owe all of you! Thanks so much.
Randy

[newey]

Randy-

My dissertation on your HB problem is in the other thread you started. Glad you got it working, at least partially!

As far as the height of the SCs, it's kind of like Goldilocks, you don't want either extreme. 1/4" to 3/8" away from the strings is probably a good ballpark for most pickups.

BTW, your HB is likely height-adjustable also. Generally, the mounting ring is held on to the guitar with 4 small screws, and the pickup adjusts up/down in the ring, via the 2 screws on the left and right of the coils.

[randyb]

Hi again,

A few more questions before I finish up with the guitar.

1) What happens if a pickup is too close to the strings? Do you get extra unwanted buzz?? Too far away? How do you know when you have it perfect?

Thanks Randyb

[newey]

Randy-

I previously said:

As far as the height of the SCs, it's kind of like Goldilocks, you don't want either extreme. 1/4" to 3/8" away from the strings is probably a good ballpark for most pickups.

Too close to the strings can generate what are called "wolftones"- unwanted resonances. Too far means low output.

If these are Fender single coils, or similar, you can start with the factory settings by looking on Fender's website for the Strat set-up guide. But that's just a starting point, personal playing styles dictate where the final position should be, also depending on the type of pickup. The height at the 1st string may also be different than the height at the 6th string, again depending on personal preferences.

I've said here before, this is probably the simplest tonal adjustment one can make on a guitar, apart from turning one of those knobs on the thing. But many players don't do either one, and then complain they can't get the sound they desire.

I like a clean tone, so I usually set mine a bit further from the strings than the factory recommends, and use my amp's headroom to compensate for the slightly lower output.

But you should season to taste.

[randyb]

Ok, now I get what is going on. I am getting these "wolftones" right now. I will do some fine adjusting when I finish putting in the humbucker today.

Thanks.

Randyb

[randyb]

So, it is all together finally with a lot of help from people here and on a hamer site.

My daughter is very happy and I am pretty pleased. I have to say thank you to everyone who chimed in here on guitarnuts and gave me advise. I also have to say thanks to punkavenger from the hamer site for the free sd59 humbucker.

Here is a picture of the guitar and my kid. Yes, the gibby toggle is gold...just waiting for the chrome one to come in, but wanted to wire it up in the meantime.

Thanks so much all.

oscar.sd42.ca/~rbates/trinaguitar.JPG

[newey]

Randy-

Glad it all worked out to your liking and your daughter's!

With that axe in her hands and with dad behind the kit, she'll be rocking out for sure.

[randyb]

Ya,
It is really cool sitting there playing the drums with my daughter. On the other end it is strange at times having a daughter! I keep seeing how boys look at my kid and I want to thump them!

I remind my girls that "all males are pigs" fairly regularly so they are ready for it. The other day my oldest says, "Not ALL guys are pigs. I know one that isn't." And her little sister responded with, "Well that is cause he's gay!"

Oh well. I am having fun.

Randyb

[sumgai]

randy,

Be sure to post YouTube videos of the two of you..... like this one:



There're lots of other inspiring videos on Der 'Tube, give it a shot, eh?



sumgai

[D2o]

Jul 12, 2009 20:38:34 GMT -5 randyb said:

Ya,
It is really cool sitting there playing the drums with my daughter. On the other end it is strange at times having a daughter! I keep seeing how boys look at my kid and I want to thump them!

I remind my girls that "all males are pigs" fairly regularly so they are ready for it. The other day my oldest says, "Not ALL guys are pigs. I know one that isn't." And her little sister responded with, "Well that is cause he's gay!"

Oh well. I am having fun.

Randyb

LOL.

There was a movie called "About a Boy" a few years back - quite funny - and Hugh Grant's charactor was "Will", who described himself at one point as "Will the Unreliable, Emotionally Stunted Arsehole" whose life "didn't mean anything. About anything, to anyone. And I knew that guaranteed me a long, depression-free life."

One of his "couple" friends had just had their first child, and asked Will to be the Godfather, to which he responded:

I'd be the worst possible Godfather. I'd probably drop her on her head at her christening. I'd forget all her birthdays until she was 18. Then I'd take her out and get her drunk. And, let's face it, quite possibly try and shag her.

D2o ... I have a daughter, too ... I feel your pain, Randy.

[ChrisK]

My daughter is now 27.

"God gives us daughters to punish us for being men."

I made sure that mine knew how to really put a hurt on someone "in need". (I taught both my daughter and son to shoot straight and well, as well. Neither have any interest in it now, but they know how.)


I tried to buy my daughter a guitar once, she said that she'd rather have a car. I said no.

She eventually got a car from me anyway.

[randyb]

Jul 13, 2009 14:59:18 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

My daughter is now 27.

"God gives us daughters to punish us for being men."

I made sure that mine knew how to really put a hurt on someone "in need". (I taught both my daughter and son to shoot straight and well...

I have taught my kids to shoot and hunt. My 15 year old is a phenomenal shot. Can hit a golf every shot from 200 yards with her 243. Some boy gets out of line I am pretty sure she will be able to take his walnuts off without trying.

I also have a rule that any boy who wants a date with my daughter has to go out with me for an evening first. This has scared off all comers until recently when I got my first date. Poor kid looked like he was going to puke when I picked him up. I had a lot of fun asking him tough questions and watching him squirm. Figure the boy must really like her if he will go through hell with me! ;D ;D

Randyb

[D2o]

Jul 13, 2009 15:10:03 GMT -5 randyb said:

I also have a rule that any boy who wants a date with my daughter has to go out with me for an evening first. This has scared off all comers until recently when I got my first date.

Brilliant! +1

(+ 1/2 for the wiring success and + 1/2 for the great idea)

[ChrisK]

Can hit a golf(er) every shot from 200 yards with her 243.

Perchance (hopefully) a gopher? ;D ;D

Some boy gets out of line I am pretty sure she will be able to take his walnuts off without trying.

Ya, "calling" both shots.

[randyb]

I meant to write "GOLF BALL" every time at 200 yards. She is a killer shot. Better than me or any of my hunting buddies. She will shoot and go "that felt a bit high and left" and we will look through the spotting scope and she will have hit in the 10 oclock position of the 1 inch ring! Their boys don't even want to shoot with her because she thrashes them so badly!

I figure the boy going for a date with me will weed out most wankers, let me get a feel for what he is like, make him good and scared of me, and also let him know just how much I think about my girl. Hopefully he respects her even more once I am done with him. If not, hopefully he is scared crapless and his sphincter is too puckered to try much! Gotta say though, I really had a fun time with my questions.

So what is it about my daughter that makes you want to date her?
Tell me about your experiences with other girlfriends.
What is your view on sex?
What do you suppose would happen if you hurt my baby?
Tell me how you plan to make it happen if you ever decide to stop dating my sweet child.
etc.... ;D ;D ;D

The poor boy did a lot of stammering, coughing and restarting sentences that night. But he did a good job and I sort of like him.
Randyb