black walnut tele

[Double Yoi]

I was lucky enough to pick up a tele body made of black walnut and maple, had a strat neck i like, ordered hardware, thats when the problems started. the control cavity is to shallow for the 3 way and the standard tele 5/8s deep neck pocket also too shallow. I'm thinking just route the cavities a littles deeper and that should get me back on track. If any of you fine folks hane any insight or could possibley see me going down the wrong ave, please feel free to advise me.

[Double Yoi]

pls forgive the typing errors

[newey]

CL-

Is the body the std Tele thickness (1¾", I think)? IOW, is there enough wood to work with?

You might not need to re-rout the control cavity just to get the switch to fit, depending on how much wood needs to go. If it's just a bit off, you could probably use a wood chisel or Dremel in just that area of the cavity.

Or, save yourself some grief and find a shallower switch. Are you using the regular Fender lever switch?

Routing the neck pocket requires more precision. You'll need the right type of router bit. Cynical1 is the person to address the how-to. I've watched it be done, but never did the job myself.

[sydsbluesky]

When I routed my neck pocket for a strat build I threw together, I just used folding table with the built in clamps - might be a specific name for the table, but I don't know it - and taped the area around it where the plate on the router was going to rest. It worked well enough, and you'd never be able to tell from looking at it that it was anything but stock. Routers are a bit intimidating. What's your level of experience with things like routers or dremels?


On another guitar, I just chipped out a little of the wood for the five way with a brand new chisel and a box opener. Given, this was soft wood. Paulona seems to ring a bell. No idea if I'm spelling it properly, and too lazy to google it.

[Double Yoi]

Thanks for the replys fellas,
Newey, i am sure there is plenty of wood for what I need to remove,and i think the switch is an "allparts 3 way". wink wink nudge nudge.
sydsbluesky,
luckily my father in law has a great wood shop and lots of knowledge, i will tape off the rest area , great tip! You guys are awesome.

[newey]

ChrisK's post on offshore lever switches indicates that these (or at least the one posted, all are similar) is 26.8 mm deep, which is 1.055 inches.

Stew Mac indicates that the "traditional" style [url=http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Lever-action_Pickup_Switch.html?tab=Details#details
]lever switch[/url] requires a 1 3/8" mounting depth (1.375"). This is probably similar, if not exactly, what you have from Allparts.

So, you could lose .320" by switching to an import-style lever switch. Almost a third of an inch.

Just a thought, I realize you already have the Allparts switch. But you would avoid the need for more woodworking and avoid the possibility that the tool slips and damages your body.

[lpf3]

craig-

Actually what you are describing is easy work for an experienced woodworker so your Father-in-law's tools & knowledge are a big plus.

You'll (he'll) need a pattern following (top bearing) router bit like one of these:

www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_flush.html

(scroll down to the 3rd item)

There's not alot of wood around the neck pocket to stabilize the router , especially in the cutaway so keep in mind to take it slow- one slip & well, you know. Also, make more than one pass- set your cutting depth a little at a time to avoid going too deep.

good luck & be sure to post results.

-lpf3

[sydsbluesky]

Remember to take it slow, and it should be fine. I'd hate for that walnut tele to get gouged up.

Just make sure the body is locked down TIGHT, make sure you have good lighting, and make sure you have the proper (and preferably new) bit for the job. I used one very similar to the one in the link and it worked like a charm.

Best of luck!

[Double Yoi]

going tuesday to my father-in-laws, i will post pics shortly after, thanks for the advise, you guys are great !

[cynical1]

Seems I'm a bit late on this post...but routing the pocket to accommodate the neck is the way to go...especially if the finish hasn't been applied.

If you have access to a good woodworking shop you should be more then covered.

And remember, counter-clockwise passes with the router first, then clockwise to clean it up.

Happy Trails

C1

[sumgai]

.... or use a double-fluted bit, making a clean-up pass unnecessary. If the wood edges are still rough, then the bit is dull.

One thing I've noted no one saying here is that whenever you're hogging out wood with a router bit that has a flush bearing, you need to have enough "meat" for the bearing to rest against. In most cases, flush-bearing router bits are at least 1" deep, and some are up to 2" deep. To make this work (the pocket is way less than 1"), you'll need to construct a "jig". That's where you lay out a couple of long firring* strips exactly parallel to the pocket's sides, and another one fitted in-between them to hold the router from going in unwanted directions. The bearing will thrust against these jig pieces, and the edge of the bit will dig out wood from the body.

You're probably going to take out only 1/8^th" or so, so this seems like a lot of trouble, but unless you can find a ½" deep bit, then what I've described is about the only way to ensure a safe cut.

Be sure to use blue painters tape to mask the body finish before laying down the firring strips. Tape them to the body too, but the blue tape may not be strong enough. Use a double layer of tape - blue on the body, for the low-tack, and regular duct tape over that for the strength to hold the jig in place. This will let you remove the jig with minimum chance of harm to the finish.

HTH



sumgai


* "firring" or "furring", I've seen it both ways all my life. There seems to be no final authority on how to spell it correctly. Sigh.

[cynical1]

Stew-Mac, and several places on the Internet have top bearing router bits as shallow as 3/8". I know because I have a couple of them. They're very handy for cleanups on neck pockets and pickup routings.

If I wasn't at work I could grab you some links.

Some of these are too shallow to hit the depth I need on my planed 3/4" oak stop/fence boards.

HTC1

[lpf3]

CL-

Part #6509 on the MLCS link I posted has a 1/2" deep cutting height . There's a small gap between the cutter & the bearing (I have one & just measured it) so making a 5/8ths" deep cut would be kinda iffy. With that particular bit I think sumgai's furring strip idea is a good one.

These bits at Stew-Mac also have a 1/2" cutting height.....

www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Routing_bits/Ball_Bearing_Router_Bits.html

Be safe & build up around that neck pocket.

You know, depending on your Father-in-law's collection of router bits you could use a bottom bearing bit & any old piece of thin material & make an exact copy of that neck pocket- something like this* only just big enough for the neck area.

[a href=""][/a]

That way you can take the worry out of it.

-lpf3



*While using an image of this body shape I certify that I am not affiliated with any particular guitar manufacturer, nor have I ever played one on T.V.

[Double Yoi]

[img src="[/img]i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/craiglyles/black%20walnut%20telecaster/th_PICT0708.jpg"http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/craiglyles/black%20walnut%20telecaster/th_PICT0709.jpg]

[D2o]

Jan 26, 2010 9:00:43 GMT -5 Double Yoi said:

[img src="

[/img]i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/craiglyles/black%20walnut%20telecaster/th_PICT0708.jpg"http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/craiglyles/black%20walnut%20telecaster/th_PICT0709.jpg][/quote]

Craig - if you put a "]" right after the first "[img", and delete the "]" right after ..... "709.jpg", both images should work.

Cheers,
D2o



... oh ... SaWEEET axe! by the way.

[Double Yoi]

So here is the 2 problems, its a little hard to see the neck issue, but you get the point.
And the control cavity

[Double Yoi]

Thanks D2o, I think i got it this time!

[cynical1]

Ok...it's a bit tough to see exactly how much you need to shave off the neck pocket from the picture. I'm guessing maybe 1/8"...or in that neighborhood... Correct me if I'm wrong.

That should be pretty easy to fix. A top bearing router bit and some planed pieces of hardwood, a few clamps and you're on your way. It'll take you 30 minutes to set-up and about 90 second to route...

lpf3's idea of making a template from your existing neck pocket is a pretty slick idea, and if you've got access to a good workshop is the preferred way to go.

If you want to go old school, I would use a couple of planed oak, or other hardwood, boards as a fence. I keep a few 3/4" x 3" board around just for this type of application. Lay them over the body even with the existing neck pocket. To extend the depth into the pocket, and also protect the finish from the router base.

Generally, if you go with a short enough router bit the existing pocket will act as a stop at the back of the pocket. If not, a few cuts with a table saw and you've got a temporary stop.

And ALWAYS clamp your work FIRMLY to the bench prior to turning on the power tools. No sense in making a wooden Frisbee out of your guitar.

One thing I'd do before I clamped all this stuff down is put some masking tape on the body around where you'll be routing, as well as under the boards. This will protect against scratches and help ease the pain of chipping the finish around where you'll be routing. I prefer the 3M Blue tape, as it's low tack and comes off later without a fight.

As far as the depth of the control cavity to allow mounting your switch, I'd think long and hard about what newey offered. Finding a different switch may be preferable over thinning the top of your guitar. That appears to be a thinner then normal body from the picture, but I could be wrong.

If you do decide to go in there and have at it, remember that even though you're still using the two boards again to support the router, you're going to have to freehand that area of your cut, unless you go through a very protracted templating process. Me, I'd just buy another switch.

Good luck and remember, measure twice, cut once and leave with as many fingers as you came in with.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[Double Yoi]

father in law talked me out of the neck pocket route, went at the neck, bad!

[cynical1]

...not to throw salt in the wound...but how bad is "bad"...

[D2o]

So, how did you do it?

I have not had a reason to do this yet, so I am only guessing that you would have done something along the lines of :

• determine how much you wanted to shave off,
• place a flat object of the same height next to the heel of the neck (I mean the fat part that the neck pocket accepts),
• ensure that both the neck and the other object will not move,
• draw a line where the object meets the neck heel along both sides of the lower part of the heel,
• which would mean that you could then shave away the bottom of the neck, up to the lines you had just drawn.

… no clue if that’s how it’s supposed to be done, but it would seem to me to be a logical transfer of the math needed to make it work.

I bet it’s tricky though. I mean, if you don’t get it nearly perfectly flat - exactly in relation to what the bottom of the neck used to be – it could throw off all sorts of things.

I would guess you could make up for quite a variety of errors with a combination of adjustments to the saddles and shims if it’s now too low or if it’s not quite right from side to side.

Thank goodness we’ve got cynical1 here to do more than just guess.

D2o

[cynical1]

Shaving the back of a neck heel can cause all types of problems...the ones D20 mentioned, as well as potential truss rod issues...I've seen people re-use the original mounting screws and run them through the fretboard...knock the heel out of square...wobble it...pop poorly mounted frets from too much vice tightening...but I digress...

If you can give us a little insight maybe we can help.

Unless you heard a crunch most things are repairable...as long as no one lost an eye...

Happy Trails

Scott

[cynical1]

...and yes, D20, shaving the back of the neck heel can lead to all kinds of problems. This is why I never mentioned it in the previous posts. Like you said, it's way too easy to send things South in a New York minute.

Routing the neck pocket is much easier, safer and generally easier to rebuild if you get too happy with the power tools.

And like I mentioned in the previous post, if you change the overall dimensions for the neck pocket make sure you either cut your screws down or get new ones. You will find the laughter from the back room at the guitar shop is more pronounced when something like that shows up at the shop...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[Double Yoi]

The neck is ruined. not a huge deal, but still a bummer, I started by radiusing the end of the heel by hand with a fine file and it turned out great, almost perfect, measured were we would start cutting then we wedged the neck between to straight pieces of scrap on the deck of the radial arm saw.....seemed pretty stable. i think what happed is that as the saw passed over the radius of the fret board wiggled enough to get us out of square both ways side to side and top to bottom. It did however set in the pocket where we were shooting for. just not square, and the overhang on the fret board was catching. Tried to level the heel out and sanded down the overhang as much as i could, btw sanded rosewood smells great, ended up too shallow(i did shorten the screws) and think i might be able to shem it, but im concerned with the stability and tone quality, if its a done deal than so be it, im not ashamed to have tried or failed, who knows if i can get it stable i might end up with glued set neck tele? or just buy a new neck? pic to come soon.

[D2o]

Shimming is something that I have employed a time or two - I wouldn’t be too concerned with stability and tone quality.

If you use a nice, hard shim (cynical1 suggests a hard veneer - if I recall – like, say, birch for example) as it won’t compress and will be stable … and you will not have measurably worse tone than if it was still a big chunk-o-solid wood heel.

I’m not very comfortable with that glued set neck idea for some reason … I guess if I was making considerable changes like that to a neck, I’d rather be able to make minor adjustments in the future. IMHO.

Of course, once I got it dialed in just right, I guess there’s always hide glue … that may be a reversible option?

I agree that there is no shame in having tried and failed - in fact, I kinda like your initiative.

D2o

[cynical1]

Well, all is not lost...but it ain't easy fixing this one.

If it were me, and the fretboard is still salvageable, you could rebuild the heel on the neck.

Ideally, a Bridgeport is what you want to use for shaving a neck heel...but who's got one of those... As I said, if the fretboard is still good, make a jig to hold the neck with the fretboard facing up. The jig is for holding it parallel to the saw table.

Get a dado blade and make your passes across the bottom of the neck heel to level it out. then find some similar hardwood to make up for all the material you've removed. Both surfaces need to fit as flush as possible, because you're going to glue a slug to the bottom of the neck.

That's the easy part. Reshaping the heel is the fun part. You will need some good stationary power tools and will need to build your own fixtures to do it...or just find a guy with a Bridgeport... A good drill press with an end mill will suffice, but it's a pain in the @ss moving your jig.

A table router can be substituted, but again, you'll need to make some fixtures to get an acceptable result.

As a side note, if you can find an old pattern maker he could fix your neck and could also fit it to your existing neck pocket...but it ain't like pattern makers grow on trees anymore...

Honestly, unless I had some real sentimental attachment to this neck I'd just go find another one.

Next time, route the neck pocket...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[sumgai]

I just heard two things in there...... deepen the pocket, and radius the heel profile.

The first was what we all advised was best to modify on the body, not the neck. But the second.... Yes, ordinarily one would modify the neck's heel profile to fit the body. Less chance of damage, and much easier to work with hand tools, versus using anything on the body to merely change the corner radii a silly mm or two.

BTW, I've been meaning to say it.... lpf3, that "build a template right off the guitar" was the best idea I've seen in a long time. I'd go one step further. I'd lay a pickguard across the template plastic first, then drill several of the 'guard's mounting holes. Now mount it directly to the body (over a layer of blue tape), then cut away - Presto! instant guaranteed-correct positioning!! ;D



sumgai

[Double Yoi]

Out of square and plumb, lookin for a replacement but have some ideas on the heel repair.thanks for all the help, yousguys!

[D2o]

Jan 28, 2010 18:04:41 GMT -5 Double Yoi said:

Out of square and plumb, lookin for a replacement but have some ideas on the heel repair.thanks for all the help, yousguys!

ya ya .. guitars heels stuff neck make fit ... but how about the real issue:

So ... Steelers? ... you're a long way from Pittsburgh. What up wit dat?

D2o

[Double Yoi]

I think this kinda sums it up!