How to quiet Trem Springs??? - Noiseless Springs

[rabidgerry]

ANyone out there know how to quieten down trem springs? I've been told they contribute to microphonics. Both those in the back and those those on the bridge itself.

I remember I tried to slip a piece of polystyrene under them once but I'm not sure how effective it was. One of my guitars springs makes a lot of racket, I can hear them if playing unplugged in, wondering does this contribute to hard to manage feedback I get from my middle single coil pup (its been potted in epoxy like a few months ago).

I came across these today (link below)

floydupgrades.com/index.php?main_page=product_reviews&products_id=200

Never new there was such a thing. Wonder do they work.

If anyone dampens trem spring or can offer good way of doing so stick down your suggestions here.

Thanks

[ashcatlt]

I can't imagine how the springs could contribute to microphonics or have a large impact on feedback. There are plenty of folks playing extremely high-gain w/stock springs out there. I personally like the little bit of "reverb" that the springs provide which is why I leave them in even when I've got the trem itself disabled.

I just last night watched a video on youtube "In the Studio with...Dragonforce" where dude shows how he's got a rubber band around the strings in order to stop some of their sympathetic vibrations.

[rabidgerry]

To be honest I like the spring noise but the whole microphonic thing is what the guy who made my pickups had said before and I'd also heard on other microphonic threads on other forums.

On my Floyd Rose Strat the springs really kick out a racket, the like I've never experienced before!! I like it but man I freakin hate feedback!! And its hard with a really loud stereo set up. So I'm willing to get try dampen as much stuff as possible to help.

I've jammed a bit of foam in there at the minute and its ok, I could make a better fitting piece though which I'll get round to at some stage during next string change.

I'd much rather have quiet springs though (this is of course if they are actual contributers to microphonic feedback)

I'm inclined to think they might since the vibrations go right through the body (undampened of course) but may be I'm wrong.

I'd never heard of quiet springs before till I say them on the site in my previous post.

[cynical1]

A while back, Petros posted a fix for vibrating pickup springs, whereby he used vinyl tubing over the pickup springs to dampen them. A similar fix may work here.

According to a quick Google search, Trem-o-leo springs have an 8.86mm outside diameter. 9mm and 10mm ID seems to be common sizes for tubing on your side of the pond. The only trick I see is determining the length and/or ID of tubing necessary to allow proper spring function. At around $.08/ft US this seems like a cheap experiment to try.

If the vinyl is too stiff, there's always surgical tubing. With a thin enough wall it would almost function as a vibration proof sleeve.

Happy Trails -

Cynical One

[cynical1]

I found this while wasting time at work:



HTC1

[lpf3]

Great find C1 !

I don't get the wasting time part, though...........


-lpf3

[BlackAngusYoung]

I have recently seen a couple methods on YouTube. One was the rubber tubing inside the spring and one was using a strip of foam packing material they use in shipping. I didn't have exactly either, so I used something we had that the Home Depot site calls Backer Rod Insulation. It's a long coil of round stiff foam used to insulate around windows or doors or whatever. We used it between the cracks in an old barnboard wall.

There are different thicknesses available and one is pretty much the same as the trem springs. I cut pieces the length of the spring and jammed them into each spring with a screwdriver or something. It makes a huge huge difference. I usually play with earbuds and I could hear the springs ringing out over the guitar sound in the headphones. Filling the springs with this stuff totally fixed that.

[chuck]

can you even hear the vibrato spring " reverb " through an amp ?

i have never noticed it

[D2o]

Jun 17, 2010 13:27:29 GMT -5 chuck said:

can you even hear the vibrato spring " reverb " through an amp ?

i have never noticed it

Part 1: Mute the strings with the palm of your hand, and whack the back of the guitar lightly (either with your free hand, or against your leg or knee).

Part 2: Edit: Oh! I guess this would be a good time to mention that I did this simple mod to my springs recently.

I was having a bugger of a time finding tubing of a size that was "just so", though ...

I actually ended up buying some 1/4" aquarium tubing and I simply slit it along it's length so that it would fold over on itself and fit inside the spring.

Works just fine.

[chuck]

so , if you mute the strings and whack the body , you can hear the springs through your amp ?

do that with a non vibrato equipped guitar and what do you hear ?

[D2o]

Jun 17, 2010 13:43:26 GMT -5 chuck said:

so , if you mute the strings and whack the body , you can hear the springs through your amp ?

do that with a non vibrato equipped guitar and what do you hear ?

I've re-written my post. Go back and re-read "Part 1", try it, and report back to us.

[chuck]

ok ... i have my Valve JR dimed , and am muting / tapping / slapping / banging on my Strat .

what exactly am i supposed to hear .. other than the tapping , slapping , and banging being amplified ?

now , if i do the ol flutter trick ... i do hear the spring reverb a little .

i have never had a " problem " with spring noise , and am just wondering what all the fuss is about .
thats all

[chuck]

update alert ...

most of the noise i was getting was the bar being too loose.
a new piece of teflon tape and it is quiet now.

i even cranked the Neovin preamp to make as much noise as possible.

let me grab my trusty old Charvel Model 6 and check for spring noise through the amp ... BRB

[D2o]

Jun 17, 2010 14:17:50 GMT -5 chuck said:

ok ... i have my Valve JR dimed , and am muting / tapping / slapping / banging on my Strat .

what exactly am i supposed to hear .. other than the tapping , slapping , and banging being amplified ?

now , if i do the ol flutter trick ... i do hear the spring reverb a little .

i have never had a " problem " with spring noise , and am just wondering what all the fuss is about .
thats all

Faint, but audible, right? – and, as you’ve noted, not really a big deal.

Some people don’t like the sound of the springs, most have never even thought about it, and some actually like the noise of the springs.

I blocked my trem, which may have slightly eased the tension on the trem springs. If it did, I would imagine this made them slightly more prone to spring noise (although I doubt it could actually be detected) and, since I don’t use the trem, I suppose I figured I may as well finish it off for good and silence the springs.

I could see someone actually digging the extra spring noise (if there even was any) … and I would imagine most would not care one way or another.

But, if you do care, and you don’t like the spring noise, you’ve got a solution.

D2o

[chuck]

update # 2 ...
i grabbed my 1987 Model 6 ( with a Gibson Dirty Fingers in the bridge ... i LOVE those pickups )

i have the stock Jackson JT-6 licensed Floyd set up to flutter smoothly with 3 springs , and i get no spring reverb through my amp.

same result with my 1983 Ibanez RS1000 with a HardRocker Pro Vibrato bridge ... all i hear is the vibrations of the guitar .

i wonder what i could be doing with my guitar setups to eliminate the spring noise that others have a problem with ?

i am not purposely or consciously doing anything to quiet them , but have no problems with it.

[chuck]

now to make myself ( more ? ) clear , i DO hear the " reverb " unamplified .... just not through my amp.

i understand that different folks have different styles and tastes ... i am just wondering about that " reverb" coming through the speaker .

[D2o]

Jun 17, 2010 14:47:14 GMT -5 chuck said:

now to make myself ( more ? ) clear , i DO hear the " reverb " unamplified .... just not through my amp.

i understand that different folks have different styles and tastes ... i am just wondering about that " reverb" coming through the speaker .

Okay - let's back up for a bit:

The thread was originally started because some folks believed that the undamped spring vibrations contribute to microphonic feedback and squeal (… some other folks heard about it and were not sure they were buying it …).

Beyond that, I would say that it became more a case of some folks just plain don’t like the sound of the springs – I suspect that they would dislike the sound even if the guitar was not even plugged in. They also would dislike that sound coming through an amp (e.g., suppose they smacked their unmuted guitar against their knee).

Others spent $1.99 on aquarium tubing and were damn-well going to use it.

Noisey springs really aren't an issue ... just a topic that came up.

And, in particular, if they’re not an issue for you, for any reason, they’re really not an issue. Right?

D2o

[BlackAngusYoung]

Yeah... I've never really listened for the noise through a real amp. It always just bothered me while using my headphone amp since I was using earbuds and they always let outside noise in over the music. In this case, I'm really glad I clogged the springs and would recommend it to others who play a lot with headphones.

I guess it can't be much of a problem coming through an amp, or there'd be a lot more talk about it.

[chuck]

oh ok ... i understand 100% what you are talking about now.
i can see ( hear ? ) where you wouldnt like the noise and you could hear it over the earbuds volume.
i getchta now .

but DOES anyone have problems with the spring noise coming through their amp , or causing feedback ?
or is it more of a " cant hurt to mute them " kind of thing ?

[BlackAngusYoung]

Jun 17, 2010 20:27:23 GMT -5 chuck said:

is it more of a " cant hurt to mute them " kind of thing ?

Since you put it that way... shouldn't someone be worrying that maybe it can hurt to mute them?
I hope people don't come back with horror stories about muting their springs and losing all their tone.

[chuck]

i am no expert ( or current pert for that matter ) but COULD the spring muting hurt your amplified tone ?
i guess EVERYTHING makes SOME difference to some degree .... i just wonder it it is something that we can actually hear ?

[gitpiddler]

Remove the spring cover. Rake the springs with your hand (or other suitable appendage;) at volume. I usually hear a subharmonic in there when hitting certain notes also.

IMO, the middle Strat pickup is only good for hearing the springs, or that hollowbody sound (quack?) in the middle positions.

I believe squeal is the relationship between the resonance peaks of the pickup and the instrument.
When the instrument can carry a certain range that fills in where the pickup is weak, the squeal tends to be overpowered. Isn't this game fun?

[chuck]

i call the game Tone Quest , and it is eternal

[rabidgerry]

Since I started all this I can safely say, yes I liked the noise of the springs, but in reality they can only be heard when playing acousticly. I just wondered if they cause microphonics and how to mute them effectively.

I've since slipped some sponge under my springs and that has dampnened them a lot, however I still get feedback from a certain epoxy potted single coil, and I suspect the trem arm on my floyd rose isn't helping, although I dunno how to mute it, the trem arms nut rattles when loose and can make vibrations in a hummy buzzy way when tight.

I notice persoannly middle pickups (in my own experiences) seem to be more prone to microphonics than the other two in a strat.

My opinion on whether or not trem springs casue feeback is......that they do as I feel the vibrations going through the body from the springs unmuted, and this is bound to travel into the pups and cause unwanted stuff. Obviosuly potted pups should eliminates this to a degree.

[chuck]

if it causes unwanted feedback / noise then its got to go

[greeneyezzz]

I had the same thing, I heard strings "ring out" when I strummed them and muted them directly after. So I stuffed toilet paper (pls dont use it first) between and around the tremelo springs (note I have a tremel no installed but kept 1 spring installed) but problem still there.

I then noticed a guitar player who had inserted foam between the strings on his headstock. I strummed the strings, muted the strings afterwards, still ringing out, muted the strings on my headstock while the ringing is still happening (I even have a toplock!) and *BAM* : Silence! So try to see if the ringing is not being caused by the strings on the headstock.

I now inserted a piece of foam between the strings on the headstock (where they reach the nut) and the headstock itself and all is totally silent now.

I use 2 hand tapping a lot (try to anywayzzz) and the sound is clearer and has more sustain now. So I'm happy

Hope that helps!

[D2o]

Thanks, greeneyezzz, for a post that is informative and was delivered with humour and humility.

Cheers,
D2o

[greeneyezzz]

I have my moments

happy to contribute

[rabidgerry]

greeneyezzz you got any pictures? I'm gonna try this when I put my guitar back together, its in bits at the mo till I get a new sustain block!!!

[greeneyezzz]

Aug 9, 2010 9:45:45 GMT -5 rabidgerry said:

greeneyezzz you got any pictures? I'm gonna try this when I put my guitar back together, its in bits at the mo till I get a new sustain block!!!

pictures of what exactly?