Half out of phase

[ashcatlt]

Feb 7, 2013 4:30:50 GMT -5 dannyhill said:

Hi AshCatlt,

Q: I guess people always recommend putting the tamer cap between pickups as its easier to add it to the hot side of a pickup when you switch to a series configuration of pups?

I guess I'm not aware of anybody "always" recommending anything re: a tamer cap. In fact, you're the only person I've ever seen use the term. A google search brings up 3 results, 2 of which are your posts on this forum.

The order of passive components in series is arbitrary. All that really matters is the total impedance. If you start adding parallel components in between the series components, things get a bit more complicated, but for this thing with two pickups and a cap all in series, where you put what in the chain is a matter of convenience.

Q:So if I have an EXTRA switch to add different caps or just a wire, I can put that before the first pickup for series taming/strangle(of that pickup)/HOOP(if that pickup direction is reversed).
Then I could add ANOTHER switch for strangle of the other pickup/extra series taming?

Sure!

Q: For treble cut, is there any difference between putting a cap across the ground and hot connections of a volume cap pot or just using the tone control with its cap?

Did I correct your question correctly?

If so, then no...maybe...sort of...yes...

If the cap is connected to the same places that the T pot + cap are connected then it will act the same as if the T pot was at 0. But the V pot has two lugs which could be considered "hot", and it does make some difference which of these you use. (see 50s vs Modern wiring)

Modified: One more q: In the HOOP is the tone any different if I reverse one and add cap, or the other?

Probably yes, for a number of reasons. First because the two pickups capture a different proportion of harmonics. Second because the two pickups will generally have different electronic characteristics, which will influence the response of the filter.

Too early for so many questions?

Well, it was 03:30 my time when you posted. For me that's either "a little too late" or "way the fk too early".

[dannyhill]

Thanks Ashcatlt!

"Q: For treble cut, is there any difference between putting a cap across the ground and hot connections of a volume cap pot or just using the tone control with its cap?

Did I correct your question correctly?

If so, then no...maybe...sort of...yes...

If the cap is connected to the same places that the T pot + cap are connected then it will act the same as if the T pot was at 0. But the V pot has two lugs which could be considered "hot", and it does make some difference which of these you use. (see 50s vs Modern wiring)"

I meant across the outside lugs of the volume pot.
?
D

[JohnH]

Feb 7, 2013 4:30:50 GMT -5 dannyhill said:

@ JohnH: The hoop and the modified tbx. What do you have in mind? The TBX only allows for treble cut or bass cut, not both. I think I'm confused about adding caps before and after the pots.


D

Its the sort of thing that you can only work out by building it. I dont think it can even be modelled in a way that will determine whther it sounds good. My thought was to have that modded tbx on one pup, then add the output of that to another pickup in parallel which does not have one. But I certainly wouldnt invest any guitar project in it without some type of test first.

[dannyhill]

How do we feel about S1 Switches?
I'm trying to see how to minimise the number of toggles/slides and maximise the number of circuits.

Take an Anderton Mod, say with the neck in parallel to a cap in 4th and series in 5th, and then add further options on switching the S1:
Out of phase parallel,
out of phase series,
HOOP parallel position 1 (cap in series with reversed bridge) and HOOP parallel position 1 (cap in series with reversed neck)
One more?

Can this be done with a 5 way and S1 or do I need a superswitch?

EDIT: What I REALLY want to do, is to do the above Anderton mod with the same order of combinations BUT in position 4 to have bridge and neck swapped around. Of course by swapping bridge for neck I get neck/parallel/Bridge/bridge in parallel to middy neck/series.
Then with phase reverse on the bridge and the series connection cap switchable in/out in the 4th position I can get the neck reversed and thinner in paralllel with the bridge - HOOP!
D

[JohnH]

I'll take a punt and say that to do what you want there, it will also need a superswitch.

The S1 is a handy gadget, and amounts to a four pole two position switch, under the button of the pot. So schematically, it can be part of any design that has a 4pdt switch, such as a 4pdt toggle.

The options you list there are all out of phase, so two poles of the S1 can be assigned to do that, but the series and parallel differences of those combos depend on the 5-way position, and so must be accomplished by that switch. Standard 5-ways, with their shorted contacts in 2 and 4 positions, are not set up to do this, but a superswitch would be.

And if you have a superswitch, whatever design you use it with, you can put the selections in any order you wish.

J

[dannyhill]

Hi John,

A regular 5 way does what is posted up the page:
Bridge
PArallel
Neck
Neck with treble cut (if we jumper instead of the series cap).
Series

I guess I should invest in a super switch, cheap b@st@rd that I am, and have these options.
I like the look of the S1's, not cheap mind you! 30€ for whole thing.
EDIT: Two pups in parallel, each has an identical cap in series with them, will they sound the same as the two in parallel in series with one another cap of same value?

D

[gckelloch]

I believe the caps on each coil would cut the bass of each coil they are on and the highs of the adjacent coil. The second option would just cut the bass of both coils.

The HOoP doesn't work in series. Two series OoP coils with a cap in line is just series OoP w/bass cut -- kind of defeats the purpose of wiring the coils in series if you wanted a level boost. You'd mostly just get a loss of highs compared to either PUP soloed. The point of HOoP is to get the sweet midrange affect without the loss of bass or highs. Wanna cut the highs? Use a tone knob.

The TBX/HOoP is an interesting idea, but it wouldn't work as expected because the TBX would affect both coils when they are combined.

I have an interesting diagram for a HOoP/Blend option using a 4-way rotary. It could of course be adapted as part of any switching system. The Blend aspect is taken from Bill Lawrence's Jimi Hendrix wiring. I haven't tried it, only modeled it in Guitarfreak. It might be pretty cool. It's a pic of a sloppy, but legible drawing:
drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx0CnqsQz_uYamh4Y0VJRXJnLTA/edit?usp=sharing