Simple series-only wiring for Strat?

[sasa]

Greetings Nuts,

I'm looking to rewire my 12-string Stratocaster. I don't really need the stock-wired parallel positions 2 and 4 - while I adore them in a six-string Strat, that mellow, kind of hollow sound doesn't work for me with a 12 string.

So I'm wondering if it'd be possible to rewire the guitar to give some series combinations only. I'd prefer to not add extra switches, just have some pickup switch where the stock 5-way is now.

I also don't need position 3 - the idea would be to retain positions 1 and 5, add some series wirings, and keep it as simple as possible.

Would it be possible, say, to use a four-way Tele switch and wire it like this:

- master volume, master tone
- 4-way switch with selections for NECK, BRIDGE, NECK+MIDDLE (series), MIDDLE+BRIDGE (series) - ie. neck or bridge either alone, or in a humbucker series combination with the middle pickup.

I figure that'd be pretty close to the typical four-way Tele wiring - which is actually another alternative I'm considering for this guitar, although that'd leave the middle pickup unused, and wouldn't benefit of the RWRP middle pickup.

[ashcatlt]

That's doable. Is that the actual order you want?

I would miss the mid only, as well as the bridge and neck combos. How's about you wire the 4-way with B and N like a "normal" 4-way tele and use a push pull to add the M in series with whatever that's giving?

And yes, with three pickups only one can be RWRP, combining the other two can't get you humcancelling.

[JohnH]

take a look at this years quiz, question 17.....

J

[newey]

Yes, Question #17, particularly the part where it says:

c) Why might you want to swap the positions of your M and Br pickups with this scheme?

[sasa]

Wow, thanks for all the help guys. Some comments:

Dec 8, 2010 18:42:30 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

That's doable. Is that the actual order you want?

I guess I'd actually have them NECK, NECK+MIDDLE, MIDDLE+BRIDGE, BRIDGE - if they can be freely arranged, maybe that'd be most logical.

Dec 8, 2010 18:42:30 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

I would miss the mid only, as well as the bridge and neck combos. How's about you wire the 4-way with B and N like a "normal" 4-way tele and use a push pull to add the M in series with whatever that's giving?

That seems like a versatile wiring, but maybe just a bit more complex than I'd go for at first. I'm not sure I'd use the N+B parallel
combo, and - if doable - I'd prefer to have my sounds with a simple 4- or 5-way selector with no push-pull pots or extra switches involved.

JohnH and Newey pointed me towards the Hastings' Series Mod - that's actually intriguing. But I have to confess I'm a little confused by the diagram. I'm not great at wiring, can just about find my way around Fender's or Seymour-Duncan's diagrams.

[newey]

Sasa-

Hastings' scheme is set forth as a schematic diagram, whereas the Duncan and Fender diagrams are wiring diagrams. That's why you're having problems "seeing" the Hastings scheme.

A schematic is useful for being able to quickly see the electrical relationships between components. However, it does not show the physical locations of components.

A wiring diagram is more useful for actually wiring up your guitar. The schematic is theoretical, the wiring diagram is more actual.

Usually, designs are worked out in schematic form, and, once finalized, the schematic is then translated into a wiring diagram, which is then used to actually solder everything up.

If you are truly interested in the Hastings mod, we can translate the schematic into a wiring diagram for you to use. The neat thing about that mod is that it uses a std 5-way switch, which are cheap and readily available, to get series combos.

If you want to explore using a Baja Tele 4-way switch, as suggested, here are a couple of schemes. The first is sumgai's 2-pickup implementation, if you decide to ditch the mid pup altogether. Both of these, again, are schematics, but we can translate if desired:



Next is my version with 3 pickups, and 3 controls, using a p/p pot to turn the mid pup on/off, and using a separate Vol control for the mid:



Here's a link to the discussion of these schemes:

Baja Tele 4-way with Mid Off

We're just throwing ideas out here; if you really want to do it as per your original idea, we can do a diagram for that, but it may be a few days before someone (particularly if that someone is me) can put pen to paper.

[sasa]

Newey,

I can't thank you (and the others) enough for all the help.

I'd certainly be very interested for a wiring diagram for the circuit I described (master vol, master tone, 4-way switch for N, NxM, MxB, B, in that order).

I think I'll go with a four-way switch now. Once I have it in, and if my wiring isn't quite cutting it, I'll then try stuff like the normal two-pickup four-way Tele wiring.

Thanks again.

[sumgai]

sasa,

Hi, and to the NutzHouse!

Dec 10, 2010 11:38:40 GMT -5 sasa said:

I'd certainly be very interested for a wiring diagram for the circuit I described (master vol, master tone, 4-way switch for N, NxM, MxB, B, in that order).

I think I'll go with a four-way switch now.

This can be done (I was hesitant at first, but only for a moment or two...) but newey enjoys a good challenge, so let's see what he comes up with, eh? Of course someone else might be first to offer up a diagram, but that's OK too - everybody wins! ;D

Hint: one of our accepted "best practice" rules is going to take a vacation here.


HTH




sumgai

[ashcatlt]

This is as close to a wiring diagram as you're going to get out of me:

Notes:

1) None of the wires are connected "in mid air". If you follow this, you'll only soldering to lugs. Anywhere else you see two or more wires crossing they don't actually connect. I put dots where I think you should solder.

B) It doesn't include any "shield" grounds, nor the string/bridge ground. The pot cases, the switch frame, any foil shielding (a very good idea, since you're in there anyway) and the wire coming from the bridge all need to get to the jack sleeve someway. Whether you connect them to the switch, the volume pot, or the jack itself is up to you.

III) Obviously, there's no wire colors. The topmost wire on each of the pickups in my diagram will be the ones originally connected to your 5-way switch. The bottom wires are probably all soldered to the back of one of the pots right now.

[newey]

Hint: one of our accepted "best practice" rules is going to take a vacation here.

Ash beat me to a circuit (not sure if I would have succeeded at that challenge or not), but I was already thinking "Something's got to be left hanging from the hot . . ."

[ashcatlt]

I got nothing hanging from hot. It's all shunting, much like old #17.

[sumgai]

ash,

I'll take your "variation" on my theme, I would have ended up with a hanging hot or two.... although I think mine would have been easier to follow and understand. But hey, who said that thinking inside the box was the only answer!



sasa,

This will do the job. Time to get busy! ;D ;D





sumgai

[newey]

I got nothing hanging from hot.

Yeah, OK, I see it now. Good job, Ash!

[JohnH]

Seems good to me too. Ive had a couple of builds which use the idea of putting all the coils is series, then shunting sections of the chain to remove some. Different switches in my cases, but the principle seems to work out well in practice.

However, do you know that with the same coils and same switch, you can do this with no shunted coils and no coils hanging from hot (including no shunted coils hanging from hot)?! The sounds are the same.

There's a puzzle for your weekends. A coconut brownie point to the first person who posts a diagram, or clearly describes how to do it. Ill post mine this time tomorrow

J

[JohnH]

well here's what I was thinking of:


no shuntin' nor hangin'
J

[ashcatlt]

Well, that works too!

Tricky how you're flipping the whole thing over when the Bridge comes into play. The settings with the B will be out of phase with those in the N, but since you'll never hear them together at the same time absolute polarity doesn't really matter.

Of course, if these pickups were the single conductor plus shield things which might cause the OoP thing to be noisy, they would also be sub-optimal for the series wiring, so...

+1

[sasa]

Dec 10, 2010 22:30:31 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

This is as close to a wiring diagram as you're going to get out of me:

Well, yesterday I put all of your hard work from theory into practice, went and bought a 4-way switch and put in Ash's wiring.

Indeed it does work! Shielding I'll have to look into later - as it is there's really none apart from a small bit of foil in the pickguard under the controls.

A million thanks to all of you.

[sumgai]

Ya know, every time I look at ash's diagram, I keep getting the feeling that I'm missing something....

Indeed. If I look at the "always hot" neck lead, and if I look at the Neck's negative lead, I see that when the 4-way is in the Bridge only position, the Neck's negative lead is at ground potential, meaning, it's connected to the output in a productive fashion. IOW, I'm failing to see any shunting going on here.

Equally in this switch position, the Middle pup's nominally positive lead is also at ground potential, and it's putative negative lead is tied directly to the Bridge's positive lead, which of course, is selected for output in this position.

As I now see it, I'm gonna reverse myself, and say that ash's diagram yields B+N+(-M) in the alleged Bridge position. ash, if I'm somehow wrong, and I'm missing something, I'd appreciate it if you'd clue me in, please.

But wait, we've got a live setup to test!! sasa, would you please confirm that as you select each switch position, you get the desired pickups and only those pups? You do know, right, that if your ears can't be quite sure, there's the good ol' "screwdriver method"...... That's where you gently tap a pickup's magnet with a screwdriver, and listen for the pop to come out of the amp/speaker. If the pup is "on", it'll be good and loud, so don't jack up the volume too much! If it's not "on", then the pop will be a barely audible click, which is just a sympathetic vibration from one of the other pickups. We await your report, confirming or negating my fears......




sumgai

[ashcatlt]

sg - I'm sorry to say it, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I'm not at all seeing what you're seeing. A couple things which might lead to this confusion(?):

1). According to our switch reference (which lives under the wiring modules board in a post titled Wiring Templates for some reason) this four way switch has the commons as the offset lugs. That is, the left bottom and right top in my diagram. They are a different shade of grey, but it's kind of hard to tell.

B). I thought I drew the switch in the correct orientaion. In Bridge only, the handle will be down toward the Bridge pickup, connecting the commons to their respective top-most "throw lugs".

Does any of that help?

[sasa]

Dec 14, 2010 17:03:51 GMT -5 sumgai said:

But wait, we've got a live setup to test!! sasa, would you please confirm that as you select each switch position, you get the desired pickups and only those pups? You do know, right, that if your ears can't be quite sure, there's the good ol' "screwdriver method"...... That's where you gently tap a pickup's magnet with a screwdriver, and listen for the pop to come out of the amp/speaker. If the pup is "on", it'll be good and loud, so don't jack up the volume too much! If it's not "on", then the pop will be a barely audible click, which is just a sympathetic vibration from one of the other pickups. We await your report, confirming or negating my fears......

Yeah - actually I did the screwdriver tapping even before first screwing the thing back together. The pickups do come on as they should. Besides, I'd certainly notice if anything was wrong with my trusty bridge-pickup sound! ;D The series positions are more tricky to diagnose, but again the right pickups are on, and they do sound beefier (and higher-volume) than the old parallel sounds.

[sumgai]

ash,

You're a doctor, you've correctly diagnosed my case of "vision-itis". I don't think I've got any color issues, but I do admit that lately I've been squinting at my laptop screen....

Sorry for the confusion! Mea Culpa!!!




sumgai