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Post by asmith on Apr 29, 2011 19:53:53 GMT -5
JFP: The old design was wrong. The placement of the cap matters. However, if John wants to do some 5spice, it'd be interesting to see how that old design pans out in terms of tone control. The differing values of the cap would probably make a significant change to the output though. If a 6.8nf cap is recommended as that "Series Bridge-Only" cap, putting it in series with another cap would make the capacitance value less than that.
I'm the one that has to live with this voice, Newey.
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Post by JohnH on Apr 29, 2011 20:13:20 GMT -5
I'm the one that has to live with this voice, Newey. Dont worry old chap, as a Brit ex-pat living OS, I found that with the Americans, it pays to be as British as possible. It seems to give the impression that we know what we are talking about . This policy does not work in Australia however. J
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Post by newey on Apr 29, 2011 20:50:39 GMT -5
Our advertising agencies have discovered that we Yanks will buy just about anything, so long as the person selling it has a British accent. Irish and Aussie accents work well, too.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 29, 2011 21:00:45 GMT -5
wul, so, what does that do to the tone pot in normal mode?
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Post by asmith on Apr 30, 2011 7:25:37 GMT -5
Nothing to the tone control in normal mode, it works just the same then. For the record, here's the diagrammatic comparison between the two: This voice works over here as well folks. I'm not Home-Counties, so I can think of much worse things to be stereotyped into in this country than a cultured walking charm offensive. (Or a stuck-up snob)
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 30, 2011 13:09:58 GMT -5
so, the change in position of the normal cap is due to the addition of the asmith cap? But, the normal cap works the same in either position? I think I've read on here that the filtering of the cap occurs as normal regardless of it's position. IOW, the normal cap had to move so as to not interfere with the asmith cap? Sorry if I'm being overly questioning here, just wrapping my thick head around it.
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 30, 2011 13:45:35 GMT -5
wul, so, what does that do to the tone pot in normal mode? Never fails...there's always someone trying to drag a thread back on topic...
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 30, 2011 14:51:26 GMT -5
wul, so, what does that do to the tone pot in normal mode? Never fails...there's always someone trying to drag a thread back on topic... ;D Well, I was going to tell the story about how when I was 5 and 6, we lived in Sydney Aus. I developed an Aussie accent, a dead ringer for any of the other kids in school. When we moved back home, my cousins had many laughs at the expense of me and my accent. "Say car! say Aeroplane! say penknife!". Passive aggressive that I am, eventually, I just shut up all together for about a week. After that, I was back to a good 'ol 'Merican accent, and to this day, cant really even fake an aussie accent. I do a great Nigel Tufnel, though
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Post by asmith on Apr 30, 2011 15:51:36 GMT -5
You're not being thick, you're bang on. Yes, the change in cap position is so what you call the "asmith cap" will function as intended, so that it's in parallel with the resistance of the pot. Otherwise, it all buggers up a bit. In normal tone configurations, the position of the regular tone cap either before or after the resistor doesn't matter (in electronic theory). In fact, when I ripped open a Les Paul recently, the stock connections between the volume pots and the tone pots were simply two bare-wire capacitors, as opposed to Strats, which have the caps after the pots.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 6, 2011 21:44:40 GMT -5
dang! STTTEEEEEEERRRRRRRIKE ONE several bad positions (bad meaning very very weak tone) 4,5 (N,NM) and 1B. I havent done any trouble shooting or even tried figuring out anything. Back to the bench. Its unseasonably cold out there And my tunes quit working On the plus side, I can put my other module right back in ;D
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 8, 2011 14:18:56 GMT -5
ok, jeez, you forget one little wire and the whole thing just goes to hell. so far, the series are pretty dark, maybe I need 500k pots. I mean, they are thick and rich and all, but very little top end bite. Soop is nice. B*(N-cap), the johnH cap, doesnt sound any different from B*N B with asmith tone cap is really weak and thin, like twice as thin as oop. Now, the diagram shows lug>cap>center lug>ground, but I wired it lug>cap>ground and center lug>ground, cuz 'connected in one place is connected in any/all places', right? maybe not. Also, I got one of them no-load-click pots from stewmac; it sucks. Having the click is a pita. Next time, I'll try modding my own no-load pot. I re-did my diagram to show more accurately the positions of the components:
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Post by JohnH on May 8, 2011 15:37:08 GMT -5
Its a shame if its not sounding good. I think the diagram may bear some more checking. I have some difficulty relating to the superswitch representation, with its 72 little squares. Is it an ususual switch? Which ones are the poles? these are usually on the four outer corner positions of a superswitch.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 8, 2011 16:49:56 GMT -5
nah, its good, (wul, except as noted) just not very bright in series. I was just playing some more, series is thick, in a good good way. Haven't had it up too awful loud yet. It's a Schaller/Eyb 5way. the main poles are the grey shaded ones. In my diagram, its as if you're looking straight down at it, the thick line in the middle is the edge and the lettered boxes are the contacts on either side. looking down like this
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Post by asmith on May 9, 2011 14:43:57 GMT -5
Could be a bad connection to ground on lug "U" that's not making the difference between the two B*N. Is the "Special Bridge" thin and weak in all Tone Control values? If not, then it might be cap values that need experimenting with.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 9, 2011 17:51:51 GMT -5
K, i got some 500k pots in the mail, and also, I need new tips for my soldererer, so when I get this stuff I'll have another go.
Asmith, yes its thin at 10 then mostly just gets quieter as I turn down the tone until silent at 0. Do you agree with me that I should be able to connect both the other side of the cap and the middle lug to ground, same same? What do you think would be some fun cap values to try?
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Post by asmith on May 10, 2011 1:51:58 GMT -5
If it's thin at ten there's a wiring issue. At ten, there shouldn't be any difference between 'Regular Bridge' and 'Series Mode Bridge.' Time to get the soldering iron out again.
Yes, in theory, having the wiper to ground and the cap to ground instead of lug-cap-wiper-ground should be fine.
As for cap values, I'm afraid I can't help. I suck at electronics, I just enjoy the switch logic.
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 15, 2011 21:13:55 GMT -5
OK! 500k pots with the tone being a diy no-load: nice and bright, probly too bright for the parallel and neck only, but hey, you just tone it down to 7 or 8. But, its perfect for bridge and/or series combos. I was missing a wire for the asmith cap, but sorted that. It is awesome! Turned down to 0 or 1, it gives a real throaty, 'wah 1/2 cocked' sound. And at 10 (actually infinity), it's just like regular bridge. And everything inbetween. Still, I dont hear a difference between ser 3 (JohnH cap) and ser 5
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Post by asmith on May 16, 2011 2:55:23 GMT -5
I was missing a wire for the asmith cap, but sorted that. It is awesome! Turned down to 0 or 1, it gives a real throaty, 'wah 1/2 cocked' sound. And at 10 (actually infinity), it's just like regular bridge. And everything inbetween. I love it when a plan comes together. I love it even more when sound samples materialise. Still, I dont hear a difference between ser 3 (JohnH cap) and ser 5 Everything about this screams bad cap or bad solder. Everything about this screams.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Aug 22, 2011 20:45:05 GMT -5
Allrighty...I finally did a demo for this. I wanted to change out the no-load tone because I wasnt sure if that was interfering with the Asmith cap in pos 1, series (not really series). Is there a track on the other side of the pot, as well as the track that i scraped to make it no-load?
Let me know if i've shown all the settings so you can hear them or if there's any other way you'd like this demo to be. I tried to make it as usefull as possible.
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Post by newey on Aug 22, 2011 22:28:55 GMT -5
JFP-
+1 for the best demo tracks ever! Very well mixed together, with the graphic rendering of the various combos- good stuff, and good A-B listening to spool all the sounds together like that.
Was this through an amp with models of the plexi, jcm etc.?
BTW, you should repost these clips on the "sound samples" board, we can easily find them to link to, whenever someone asks what 2 Texas specials sound like in series or some such question.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 22, 2011 23:02:04 GMT -5
Indeed, a solid +1...without being judgmental at all...
I really liked the neck and bridge in series. They're all keepers, though.
And it seemed like the "tone special" gizmo was the most effective, to me at least, on the last go round when it got really dirty.
Keep up the good work and you just might live down that Violent Femmes thing....
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by asmith on Aug 23, 2011 13:19:15 GMT -5
Well that's a major success. Nice one. I enjoyed hearing those.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 23, 2011 15:26:17 GMT -5
Excellent!
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Post by JFrankParnell on Aug 23, 2011 18:03:16 GMT -5
thanks guys :28 and :30 show the (non) difference in the JohnH special cap setting. N*B, N*B (-cap). I havent tried any new cap or anything, but visually, that part of the circuit looks fine. So, that is the only part that doesnt work as planned. I could post this circuit under the 'completed circuits' board if not for that. I may take it out of the diagram and just post it as a redundant setting. What say you all? Newey, the 'amps' are Vox Tonelab. Guitar>compressor(lightly)>tonelab>mixer>puter. C1, I dig those series as well. And, I agree, the special tone circuit works best at high gain, the characterishness of it is kinda boxy on the clean, and also, you'll note the volume drop, which isnt so noticable on the more compressed models.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 23, 2011 20:25:14 GMT -5
thanks guys :28 and :30 show the (non) difference in the JohnH special cap setting. N*B, N*B (-cap). I havent tried any new cap or anything, but visually, that part of the circuit looks fine. So, that is the only part that doesnt work as planned. dang! I hate it when theres a non-functioning cap called JohnH! Obviously the only solution is to rename it after one of the junior forum members - in exchange for 1/2 a karma point. What that cap was intended to do, has quite a dramatic effect on a couple of my guitars. Ill have another look at the circuit, but if all else fails, you have a great range of sounds there anyway and maybe it could be deleted. BTW, I liked your 'Plexi' riff - very inventive. John
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Post by JFrankParnell on Aug 23, 2011 21:44:33 GMT -5
thanks guys :28 and :30 show the (non) difference in the JohnH special cap setting. N*B, N*B (-cap). I havent tried any new cap or anything, but visually, that part of the circuit looks fine. So, that is the only part that doesnt work as planned. dang! I hate it when theres a non-functioning cap called JohnH! Obviously the only solution is to rename it after one of the junior forum members - in exchange for 1/2 a karma point. Ha! yeah, where's that new kid, tvrobot or something ;D the licks are: clean: first couple riffs of Dinosaur Jr.'s Going Home plexi 1: UFO - Rockbottom plexi 2: just a squiggly thing I made up jcm800: Rush - Think I'm Going Bald
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Post by JFrankParnell on Sept 24, 2011 16:39:56 GMT -5
Is there any way to wire the tone control on this so that it is active only on 5-2 paralell ? IOW, I want the tone to be disabled for Bridge or any Series ( or at least pos. 2, M*B) setting.
I find that I want N, N+M, N+B, M+B to be toned down a bit, and I always want B or series at 10.
I am willing to use the 4th pole of the 5way (now operating the JohnH and Asmith caps) if neccessary.
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Post by JohnH on Sept 24, 2011 17:46:27 GMT -5
I think to do that entirely as you desribe, it needs another pole on the series switch so it can control the tone circuit in parallel mode only. If its currently a dpdt toggle, it would need a 3pdt (or 4pdt which are sometimes more common)
But you can get most of that by wiring the tone control so it only acts on M and N, without changing switches. You would have tone control in all parallel settings except B only. In series, it would leave the B component un affected but tone down the effect of N and M - which would still leave a bright tone, and you might like it. In this mode, its similar to what the 'JohnH' cap was supposed to do - so maybe not much, and maybe delete the JohnH cap altogether.
To try the simple change above, move the wire on the 22nF tone cap from the volume pot, to the switch lugs H J O P Q, or a place on the series switch connected to those lugs.
John
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Post by JFrankParnell on Sept 25, 2011 13:59:28 GMT -5
Yeah i figured i'd need more poles on the series switch to really do it all the way.
I'm not understanding though, how moving that wire would only affect the N and M (on M+B or N+B). It seems that it would be electrically the same as what i have. I actually was going to make a new thread asking for explanation of how to affect individual pups with the tone.
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Post by JohnH on Sept 26, 2011 5:32:14 GMT -5
I think you are right in fact - applogies. So how about if that connection change is made via the 4th 5-way pole, so it only connects in 4 out of 5 positions, excluding B only?
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