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Post by morbe on Jul 19, 2011 14:02:24 GMT -5
 So I went to a major music store chain , because i'm in the market for a new guitar! So I grabbed a guitar that I was interested in, I played it, I enjoyed it. I want to buy it. I plan to make this purchase in the next 2 or 3 months. So I did my research and found a store that had one in stock to play. The first thing that I noticed was that the Strings were almost completely covered in rust! While playing it I noticed there was a little bit of fret buzz, Was this because of the rust? Who knows. Any how I start out like any other times I purchased a guitar. I asked, "Are they running any specials?" "No they were not", Okay no big deal we talked about purchase options though I will be paying cash. So I then proceed to get raise the stakes a bit so I says "Lets make a deal on that guitar." The sales manager says "Well its already marked down from the MSRP so you saving a couple hundred right off the bat." So then I reply, "Yeah but no one sells for MSRP and you can tell this guitar has been here for a while whats the incentive to sell it." His reply, "Well we cant discount the guitar or sell it for less than its marked." Okay I understand that he's not gonna budge on the price so I come back with, "Well what about you set it up before I take it home then." Their response, "We can't do that either, we can probably throw some new strings on it for you, but we just cant tell our tech to set this guitar up for free." So Then I explain that the strings are rusty and that shouldnt have even been a BONUS or a SELLING POINT it should be a GIVEN. And the guitar needs to be set up. I admit that its playable but for someone that has a bit of experience with guitars I should have to take the guitar home and have to make it playable. It should already be that way. Why would a store not sell guitars that are playable right out of the box. I also admit that its not a 1000$ gibson, but its not a 200$ squire either. I mean am I asking to much to have it looked over just to get rid of the fret buzz? (it was noticeable).
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Post by newey on Jul 19, 2011 15:02:16 GMT -5
Morbe- Sorry I moved this, but it didn't seem to relate to Pickups, but more to Guitars in general, so the coffee shop seemed a more appropriate place for your venting . . .  No, you weren't asking too much. I suppose it's possible that their tech is on a contract basis rather than being an employee- if so, you could understand why he wouldn't want to work for free- but if so, the store should pony up the expense to make the sale. Just as in so many other aspects of modern life, the big box stores are pushing the smaller local stores out of business- and the personal touch of customer service goes by the wayside. You just know that the manager of that Big Box store gets lots of pressure from his corporate bosses to produce big volume sales results, without much corresponding pressure to keep customers happy. I deal mostly with two local music stores (I'll admit to buying the odd strap or cable from the Big Boys, but not much else) just because of the personal service I get. At one of these, I pay for my lessons there every month, so they know I'm a regular customer. I know the tech, and I know that every instrument that comes through the door gets a trip through the tech's shop before it goes on the wall. If I was to play a guitar there that had issues, I would mention it to any of the employees and it would go right back to the tech. If I was to buy a guitar, I know they would address any concerns I had, and would restring or set it up any way that I wanted, no questions asked. That kind of relationship may be rare these days; I only hope that they stay in business so that it continues! But I feel your pain- and I'd take my business elsewhere if I were you. |
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Post by lunaalta on Jul 19, 2011 16:57:04 GMT -5
Could you imagine buying a car that needed tuning to make it work, and that tuning was an optional extra. Wouldn't sell many Porsches that way, LOL.
Surely on your side of the pond 'merchantable quality' exists as a prerequisite. That must mean a guitar should be set up and playable.
I had a girlfriend here in Spain who bought a Squire guitar and amp, 'cos she wanted to learn to play. The amp buzzed and the guitar was unplayable! I told her to just get her money back and go elsewhere. These people do not deserve to be in business, in my opinion....
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 19, 2011 17:27:24 GMT -5
A wise man once told me that as a consumer there are three things always available to you:
1.) The absolute lowest price.
2.) The absolute fastest delivery.
3.) The absolute highest quality.
Then he said, "Pick two."
With the crush of Internet sales and lower margins it seems like you're lucky to get one these days.
As with most things, the big box chains are killing off the smaller specialty stores and draining all of their knowledge and passion with it. More then likely the "Manager" you talked to was sucking grease out of a deep fat fryer the week before.
On the other hand, every one laments the passing of these old fashioned music stores, but then they'll haunt the Internet and the big box chains for the best deals around. These places don't keep their margins low by adding any value to their merchandise.
You can't have it both ways. If you want the old time horse trading and quality setups on playable instruments when you walk out the door, you need to be more aware of the door you walked into in the first place.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by sumgai on Jul 19, 2011 18:43:36 GMT -5
morbe, OK, you've vented already, now try this: One of the two things you didn't do was to Flash The Cash in the manager's face. That always gets them to salivating, they know you're not just pulling on their collective pud. Two, wait (if you can) until the end of the month, when it's time to Meet The Monthly Sales Quota. At this point, Flashing The Cash will just about bring them to their knees..... not quite, but close enough for your purposes. A tech's status within a store (or a chain) is not of concern to you - either he/she is good, or you weren't planning on using them anyways. But you are correct - if it's got one or more issues, then it should be brought up to snuff before any money changes hands. Rust on the strings? Look for this manager, and possibly the whole store, to be gone by next Christmas, 'cause word of that gets around, and the next thing you know, Corporate HQ finally gets a clue.  So now you know that bargaining with them (at this particulare outlet) isn't gonna happen. Regardless of why (Corporate policy, manager's personal whim, who cares....), c1 is correct - it's time to move on. These people have forgotten one thing, the most important "One Thing" - they weren't/aren't the only game in town! (Or to be more precise, they aren't the only game on the innerwebs.) Now the manager may be thinking "Hah, like I'm gonna invest store profit (which dictates my bonus) into a piece of crap like that. There'll be another sucker along in a moment or two, and they won't argue about the price." Fine, let him think that way, but..... In the final analysis, there was money on the table, and when you went away, none of that green stuff migrated into the cash register. Go back in a week or two, and check that guitar again. (Even if you've already bought something else.) Is it fixed up now? If so, you can bet the manager had second thoughts. If not, then drop a dime and give Corporate HQ a heads-up - they'll wise up the manager muy pronto. (If not, see above about Christmas, etc........) Good luck! HTH sumgai |
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 19, 2011 19:48:55 GMT -5
sg, as always, offers sage advice on fender trading. (no pun intended)
[rant]
But my central point appears to have been missed. Anyone over 45 will probably remember, maybe some of you in larger metropolitan areas remember, but for the most part, the local pro/semi-pro shop is a thing of the past.
Of the five shops in my old 20 mile radius of home that I used to do work for, ALL of them are gone. They either went out of business, or sold their inventory and retired because no one would buy their business.
Back in the day musicians would point you out at a bar as the guy who sold them their kickass guitar, or bass, or amp. Some would even buy you a beer.
Today the turnover is so high in the big box stores that if you wait a month to go back the entire staff is new.
And you'll see all the big rock stars on posters at the big box stores. But if any of them need anything do you think that's the first place they go? Hell no. They probably don't know where the big box store is.
If we continue to patronize the big box and Internet chains then we re-inforce their idea that only price matters. Service, knowledge, quality, pride in ownership, investment in their customers, and the notion of "ok, I'll cover you til the next gig" all become fond recollections and fodder for discussions on Internet forums.
We have been sucked in and have nurtured this Mao-Mart mentality of "warehouse pricing". We have become sales units rather then valued customers. We know it sucks, but we keep doing it.
I remember the days when neither the person behind the counter or the customer needed a name tag to be recognized and greeted by their first name. Now the first words of conversation specifically directed at you in the big box stores is being asked for your zip code.
Marketing, wholesale pricing and huge volumes. And if you wonder why they don't deal on the guitar with the rusty strings...it's because they don't have 10,000 units of them in a warehouse in Houston they have to move...
[/rant]
There. I don't feel any better, but I said it.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jul 19, 2011 21:23:53 GMT -5
C1, that was so beautiful, I had a little bitty tear in my eye.
My town's good music store also shut doors. We have a couple, 2 with big names, and a good one. I think I knew everybody who worked there. Great fellows, all dedicated to helping me.
Now, I am not one to keep grudges, but when I was amp shopping and accused of "wasting my (manager of the store) time", that's when I decide to spend my $$$$ elsewhere. Sure, I REALLY wanted either a Budda or an Orange. But I wasn't going to drop cash down without hearing EVERY nuance of an amp, playing MY guitar. Needless to say, I have yet to return to that store, and rumours from others suggests that they don't move much product.
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Post by newey on Jul 19, 2011 21:45:22 GMT -5
Or resident Cynic is right on, as usual. I'm lucky to live in somewhat of an oasis of independent music stores, so far the big boxes haven't run them off. It's a college town, which helps, I'm sure.
The price differences between my local store and the big retailers or online sellers are mostly fairly miniscule, and on many guitars their price is exactly the same (rigid MSRP policies by some makers, apparently).
On some items, the local store may be a bit higher, but when you add in the service and the ability to "try before you buy", there's no advantage in going elsewhere.
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Post by Yew on Jul 20, 2011 14:55:53 GMT -5
Fortunately on my side of the pond there arent many big corporate stores, they big players usually are a large single store, with a webpage.
Even your local stor will have an ebay shop, I know one shop near me that is pretty much always empty, but makes a fair chunk of money from his E-shop....
Gives you quality, price, and speed of delivery. The guy has the speed of a big shop, but is a tech and makes sure everything is good as soon as he buys it, otherwise he sends it back, or gives it a setup...
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Post by asmith on Jul 21, 2011 10:03:38 GMT -5
While I wouldn't go so far as to say there aren't many big corporate stores, it's a mixed bag in my neck of the woods up grim North of England. Pass kettle, chuck.
There used to be a big 'corporate' chain nearby on an industrial estate, but it flopped pretty quickly. Essentially it was a warehouse staffed by fools. It flopped, however, because everybody went in to play guitars, and didn't buy them.
Then there's the two smaller guys in the city centre that get the business 'cause of two things. Fathers feel more comfortable buying their kids ES-335s from a man in a small shop in the city. And fools don't know where else to go. One's built upon someone's rocker personality, like he's some kind of surreptitous drug dealer that all the bands know, except he sells ES-335s instead of crack cocaine. The other guy used to build guitars, and sold me three necks for a very reasonable price. But, I got the feeling he's so phased fazed with kids and fools coming in all the time and noodling around ES-335s it's all washed over him. I doubt the kids who helped in the shop knew jack about setting up a guitar as well; maybe that's unfair to them, but that's the impression I got. Both businesses must sell enough ES-335s to stay afloat though.
Then there's a smaller store on the same industrial estate as the corporate chain that is the mutt's nuts, full of clever people. But they don't do repair stuff as far as I know. They've obviously hit the nail on the head about running their business.
When I lived in York, there was a big cheap store on the outskirts that apparently did very well for itself. In the city centre there were tons of independent shops full of people who had realised their dream of working in a music shop when they knew nothing about music. But, there was also an independent place that did repairs as well as sell guitars. All the staff were friendly, it was a great shop. The only drawback was that when I asked for some information or help on purchasing a guitar, it wasn't always correct. But at least they tried.
Tried to sell me an �800 ($1300) Charvel, that is.
On the main topic of the thread, I find that there's good and bad everywhere. Whereas the smaller shops might have that more personal touch, there's no guarantee it isn't up to the soundhole in asinine staff. They might be more willing to react more positively when one says, "Can we set this up properly so I can try it?"
Having said all that, the capitalist in me says, try before you buy in the shop, spend your money on the same model on the internet for less. In the long run it may well kill shops who just depend on shifting guitars, and that is I suspect what gives shops the little enthusiasm I've seen.
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Post by Yew on Jul 21, 2011 13:08:13 GMT -5
Damn northerner Asmith! Im from a few miles south in mansfield, near nottingham
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Post by newey on Jul 21, 2011 13:59:38 GMT -5
asmith-
As one from The Colonies, I thought I was better informed than most on the slang from Mother England. But you lost me with :
and
In any event, the North must truly be grim, as it seems that the only guitars offered for sale are ES 335s. A fine instrument, to be sure, but variety is the spice! ;D
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 21, 2011 15:25:48 GMT -5
Having said all that, the capitalist in me says, try before you buy in the shop, spend your money on the same model on the internet for less. In the long run it may well kill shops who just depend on shifting guitars, and that is I suspect what gives shops the little enthusiasm I've seen. YOU'RE THE GUY!!!! Actually, it's what gives the shop the little "Going Out of Business" signs. We used to call people like that "Poke and Strokes". You get wise to them after a while...you may not sell them a guitar, but you can usually get $20.00 to sell them back the valve stems out of their tires... HTC1 |
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Post by newey on Jul 21, 2011 16:15:57 GMT -5
On the few models I've checked, my local shop's price is exactly the same as on the net. And all the web retailers seem to charge exactly the same price. Now, in some cases, this is because they're really the same entities. Musician's Friend is the same outfit as Music123, for example, and I believe both are owned/operated by Guitar Center. So much for competition.  |
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Post by asmith on Jul 21, 2011 16:34:16 GMT -5
Yup. Of course I'll support a shop if I have a good experience with them, I'll give as well as take. Bought a twelve-string acoustic as a present from that hawker-staffed shop in York, no way would I have bought that online. Delay pedal in the 'mutt's nuts' shop too. However, my general ambivalence towards so many substandard shops has formed my whole attitude to buying guitars generally. I've truth, I've actually never done it myself personally. I own one electric, bought second-hand from that drug-dealer-type, when I was around thirteen. However, my kid brother bought his bass online after playing it in a shop, and myself and my father were vocal in advising him to do so. I may be a bastard in the grand scheme of things, but frankly I can get my products elsewhere and many shops I have visited offer nothing more than what an internet purchase does, apart from the ability to play the thing. This morally might be bankrupt but practically isn't good enough. In Yorksher the word "the" is often omitted. "Chuck" is just like Peppermint Patty means it to be. "Pass kettle, Chuck," means, "Pass the kettle, friend." It's very stereotypical of us to start telling a long story by starting with a good cup of tea. We like tea. Fazed. I meant fazed. Oasis and Britpop is still in living memory here. Like "the war." A lot of indie kids grew up on it, so as soon as they start getting money from gigs, an ES-335 gets bought, and it's a self-perpetuating masturbatory circle of Gibson-branded doom. On the few models I've checked, my local shop's price is exactly the same as on the net. And all the web retailers seem to charge exactly the same price. I wish I lived in your country. |
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Post by newey on Jul 21, 2011 17:09:09 GMT -5
Well, I understand the usage now that you've explained it. But Peppermint Patty called Charlie Brown "Chuck" because Chuck is a standard nickname for someone named Charles, like Elizabeth is "Betty" or Robert is "Bob". At least in the US, "Chuck" wouldn't be understood as "friend" in the same way that calling a guy "Mac" would- or, more commonly, "Dude". (Pronounced "DOOOOOOOOD" ) Interesting. Here, an ES-335 immediately brings to mind BB King and "Lucille", and most of the ES-335 fans are Blues players. Can't remember the last time I saw someone in a rock band playing one. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 21, 2011 17:37:50 GMT -5
...Can't remember the last time I saw someone in a rock band playing one. I know you're old enough to remember these...  Alvin Lee Eric Johnson Eric ClaptonHTC1 |
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Post by asmith on Jul 21, 2011 17:51:43 GMT -5
Well, I understand the usage now that you've explained it. But Peppermint Patty called Charlie Brown "Chuck" because Chuck is a standard nickname for someone named Charles, like Elizabeth is "Betty" or Robert is "Bob". At least in the US, "Chuck" wouldn't be understood as "friend" in the same way that calling a guy "Mac" would- or, more commonly, "Dude". (Pronounced "DOOOOOOOOD" ) Aha. See, the furthest we rename men called Charles is " Chas."  '94 to '09, that man took over Britain. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 21, 2011 17:58:49 GMT -5
Then how come he only put the upper left hand corner of the Australian flag on his guitar? HTC1 |
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Post by asmith on Jul 21, 2011 18:09:05 GMT -5
Tribute to AC/DC.
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Post by newey on Jul 21, 2011 18:12:22 GMT -5
I didn't mean I had never seen a rock guitarist with a 335, just that it's been awhile since I personally saw one, like in a club gig or wherever.
And, while we can probably find photos of EC playing several different types of guitars, you don't immediately make the association "Clapton = 335".
EC and Alvin Lee and Eric Johnson all certainly rock, but more towards the blues end of things, which sort of makes my point.
If one was going to pick the quintessential rock and roller with a 335 in hand, it has to be 'ol Chuck Berry himself. But I've never seen him, although I wish it were otherwise.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 21, 2011 18:33:52 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Jul 21, 2011 20:22:08 GMT -5
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Post by asmith on Jul 22, 2011 3:14:54 GMT -5
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Jul 22, 2011 11:34:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't think of Eric Johnson or Eric Clapton as ES guys.... I'm associate them with strats above all else.
As for ES's in the UK, now that you say that, it clicks. I'd have an ES if it wasn't for the cost. I found a great one at a used shop, but it was WAY too boomy on the low end, and thin on the high end. That ended that dream. Sounded beautiful unplugged, though...
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Post by gfxbss on Jul 23, 2011 17:22:41 GMT -5
Where I'm at, there are only three "local" shops left. Local is in quotes because we have the corporate headquarters for Sweetwater, so technically it is local here. I go there once a year for their gear fest. I hang out in the flea market and trade gear with people.
Another one of them is a place that I have never seen a customer. I'm guessing because the couple of times I have been there, there was only about 4 guitars. Lots of DJ gear though if that is your thing.
The last one is the place that I frequent. It is run by the owner and two employees. I can't compare his prices to the big stores because he only sells used gear. His prices on strings and picks ect. are a bit more, but I can't compare the guitars. It's definately the place to go if you don't wanna deal w/ the big boxes.
Unfortunately, everyone seems go go to the big boxes anyways..... The shop I go to nearly shut down. It took breaking a lease and relocating to a new place to get to the point where they could make it. I can remember talking to the owner when he was still at the old store, there were months that he wouldn't make the rent until the 25th or 26th. That meant he had to go work construction again, just so he could pay his couple of employees.
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