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Post by newey on Jul 25, 2012 22:05:59 GMT -5
col- Using the lug numbering scheme used on the NKK product data sheet, model M2024, their schematic for the center position would look like this: The "external link" is made between 3 and 5. In the center, 4 connects to 5 and 3 connects to 2. IOW, it's type "D". To get wolf's unobtainable "type C", in the center position, 5 would connect to both 4 and 6, and 2 would connect to both 1 and 3.
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col
format tables
Posts: 468
Likes: 25
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Post by col on Jul 25, 2012 22:33:57 GMT -5
Hi newey,
I realised my mistake and posted before your reply - you might have missed it in a cross-post.
I have given further thought to this. Of course, the 4-pole asymmetric version of the switch I linked, could be wired up like the double pole type C switch Wolfe detailed at his website. Takes up more space, of course.
Again, using your numbering scheme, C and D are connected to common, add the in/outputs would be B and E. This would give you just one pole of the type C switch described by Wolfe.
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Post by dannyhill on Sept 16, 2012 9:38:54 GMT -5
Hi ReTREAD, With regard to this: " Jul 19, 2012, 5:14am, dannyhill wrote: I wanted to attach two tone caps so I get either cap 1, both in parallel (sum of both), or cap2. Where can these be found? Alternatively, instead of using them to join each of the two end poles I could join one leg of each and attach to the tone pot lug and then either add jumpers across each the switch or diagonally criss-cross either the LHS with centre lugs or RHS and centre lugs. Would that work? Since you only need one pole to accomplish this task, you can wire the DPDT on-on-on to get where you need to go. Put a jumper between the two poles (center lugs). Then use the upper right and lower left throws. This functions just like a Gibson toggle. A, Both, B. " Something like this? But how will this give 'paralllel caps' in the centre position? With the centre lugs jumpered, the 'output' of one cap is tied to the 'input' of another....? Seems like it would give a path straight through. Without the jumper yes, but would it not leaving 'hanging' ends of caps? An alternative would have the cap ends currently joined on the centre lugs, tied and soldered to tone throw away system (or straight to ground if coming from tone pot). The connection to the volume pot would then come from a centre lug. This would give parallel caps in centre (on) throw and individual caps on either side, but if I'm not mistaken it would also leave 'hanging' cap ends? Any cool ideas from your guitar nuts maestros? D
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Post by newey on Sept 16, 2012 19:26:37 GMT -5
Danny- What RT said was: What you've done is to run the caps diagonally, from one pole to the other. Not at all what you want. EDIT:And, while RT was referring to the way to make a DPDT function like a Gibby 3-way, he's thinking (I think!) of ChrisK's "free woman tone" which puts the caps in series in the center position. You've stated you want the caps in parallel. To do that, I'd do this, using a DPDT on-on-on:
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Post by dannyhill on Sept 17, 2012 6:24:58 GMT -5
That's fantastic Newey! I look forward to hearing what I was wanting to hear from two of my guitars. Luckily one just requires the unscrewing of a tele plate. The other....well, a few more screws and the loosening of strings :-) Cheers,
Danny
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 17, 2012 11:34:19 GMT -5
EDIT:And, while RT was referring to the way to make a DPDT function like a Gibby 3-way, he's thinking (I think!) of ChrisK's "free woman tone" which puts the caps in series in the center position. You've stated you want the caps in parallel. No, I was thinking of parallel. But apparently the text didn't get my intention across. In the drawing below is your diagram (on the left) and what I was thinking on the right. They both serve the same function, but I like the way you've arranged things so that you can use the upper left lug as a junction point. +1. At the bottom is a "one of three" selector using the same switch. It offers more flexibility than the A, B, or Parallel design.
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Post by dannyhill on Sept 17, 2012 12:10:00 GMT -5
Err...You mean I can switch caps with the bottom scheme?
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Post by reTrEaD on Sept 17, 2012 12:27:09 GMT -5
Sure. Just connect the caps to the lugs indicated by up, center, and down. The other end of all 3 caps goes to the tone pot. Select any value you want for that particular position and that will be the value of the cap in the circuit. No parallel or series calculations needed.
OR you could have two caps connected to the tone pot and one connected to ground. In that position, the tone control is bypassed and you get full treble cut provided by the cap connected to ground.
OR you could use two caps connected to the tone pot and one resistor to ground (slight loading to keep the sound from being too brittle with the tone pot out of the circuit.
There are numerous variations on three things connected to the CW lug of the volume pot. Very flexible.
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Post by dannyhill on Sept 17, 2012 13:49:42 GMT -5
Cool!
"OR you could have two caps connected to the tone pot and one connected to ground. In that position, the tone control is bypassed and you get full treble cut provided by the cap connected to ground."
The opposite of a no tone pot control? The equivalent of tone knob all the way off? Or more so?
D
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Post by dannyhill on Sept 21, 2012 6:51:27 GMT -5
Anyone have a 3 cap choice or two and one parallel for an 8 pin on/on/on?
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Post by dannyhill on Nov 30, 2012 16:06:21 GMT -5
BUMP!
If I wire the back 4 together and then cap across each terminal couple? Or join all caps together the ground side and on the other end each to a separate terminal, thereby only using one pole? Would either suffer from popping? Cannot get a slide switch like the ones we described here for on on on. Cheers,
Daniel
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Post by JohnH on Nov 30, 2012 17:45:33 GMT -5
Hi Danny, with an 8-lug slide switch, with three positions, there's probably several ways to use it to select 3 cap values, but here is one: Caps 1, 2 and 3, are selected with 1 being permanently in circuit, then 2 or 3 added to it in parallel when you flick up or down. I don't know if it would pop when you change - probably not much if at all. It would depend on such things as humidity and electrostatic fields. But if there is a problem, a very high value resistor for caps 2 and 3, as shown would fix it. cheers John
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 1, 2012 6:12:18 GMT -5
You sir, are a star!
I found these on on on slides a few weeks back and along with the more common on on on toggles they will allow me to convert all my strangle cap, series tamer cap and tone cap switching to
Strangle: Wire/large cap/small cap. Series tamer: Wire/large cap/small cap. Tone cap: large cap/smaller cap/smallest cap
Going from toggle or knob towards neck, middle, bridge pickups.
Much more logical than my current arrangements
Soldering fun to come over the following weeks with some minor mods coming up. The Dano will be a doddle, as will the rest, except of course the archtop.....that might be last. :-)
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 1, 2012 6:27:41 GMT -5
Oops! These will work for the tone cap switching but not the series tamer and strangle as the wire will bypass both caps in positions 1 and 3. Anyway around this?
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Post by JohnH on Dec 1, 2012 15:13:21 GMT -5
Danny - I haven't tuned in to what is a strangle or a series tamer, but in general, if you have a design that is working with an on-on-on toggle, could could prewire an 8 lug slide switch to replicate it, with the following lugs translations - to get the same action relative to the position of the knobs: John edit: makes no difference, but I probably should have spun the whole 8 lug diagram 180 degrees to make it look more directly comparable
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 1, 2012 15:34:21 GMT -5
Hi John,
Strangle is a bass cut cap on the hot entering the volume pot (sometimes placed just before jack on Gibson wiring). The series tamer is a bass cut cap between two pickup coils wired in series to cut out some of the fatness and volume to make it sound more like a single pup output but still with some body to the sound not found by one pickup or two in paralllel. Normally people use a spdt to switch between wire and cap (typically 0.003uF or 0.0047uF).
BTW, in the 8 lug switch I have one outer pair is further than the next pairing and they connect on each side with each of the next pair, the next or the far pair on switching between the three positions. A simple setup would have the input and output on the outer pair and then just wire or cap across each of the other three pairs - but that would be pop-tastic I imagine when switching...hence my original question. Is that the 8 lugger you had in mind when you drew up the comparison scheme in the post above?
Cheers,
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 5, 2012 11:42:30 GMT -5
Hi John,
Was you diagram for a 4PDT (8 lug) or a 8 lug 4P3T?
D
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Post by JohnH on Dec 5, 2012 14:34:31 GMT -5
Hi Danny
My diagrams assumed a three position 8 lugged switch. If lugs are numbered
1 5 2 6 3 7 4 8
Then , Im assuming in first position 1-2 is connected and so is 5-6 in second position 2-3 is connected and so is 6-7 in third position 3-4 is connected and so is 7-8
J
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 6, 2012 18:51:10 GMT -5
Hi John,
Unless I'm mistaken, I need to check again, the ones I have a wired like this:
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34 45 78
Note the gap! Connections: 1 and 3, 2 and 4 1 and 4,2 and5 1 and 7, 2 and 8,
Do you know of micro slide switches that work the way you thought?
D
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Post by JohnH on Dec 6, 2012 20:32:45 GMT -5
Ive never bought such switches, and the place I saw them no longer sells componenets - so not much help there.
But what you describe is a versatile arrangement, let's work with that.
An equivaence to a 6 lug on-on-0n toggle could be derived by treating your 1 and 2 lugs as the centre toggle lugs, and joining what you have marked as 4 and 7 on the left side, and joining 4 and 5 on the right (you two no. 4's!)
Can sketch something later
J
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2012 3:19:15 GMT -5
Hi John,
Yes it was late. Superb! Look forward to that. I wish I had such transparency on this as you do. Experience? Cheers,
Daniel
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Post by JohnH on Dec 7, 2012 5:59:28 GMT -5
I think this will do it, to convert your sliders to act like on on on toggles: FYI,the toggle version connects lugs like this, with lever up: C-E and D-F lever in centre: C-E and B-D lever down: A-C and B-D so you might like to check my sketch and see if it is consistent cheers John Edit - diagram fixed
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2012 7:11:36 GMT -5
OK, so
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34 56 78
So vol hot would go to 1 2 and 7 are connected 5 and 7 are connected 4 and 6 are connected 1st output at 3, 2nd at 4 and 3rd at 8th?
I guess as all of the caps are tied to ground then there would be no popping on switching?
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2012 11:32:29 GMT -5
Hi John,
Thats weird, didnt see your last post when I posted mine. It would appear that if I can read your writing you say 1=A? That would mean the up and centre positions on LHS are not right as they should be A-E i.e. with lever up: A-E and D-F lever in centre: A-E and B-D lever down: A-C and B-D
Does it still work? Or does the one I posted before seeing yours work?
D
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Post by JohnH on Dec 7, 2012 14:35:02 GMT -5
I fixed my diagram, I had two C lugs noted - have a look at it now.
cheers John
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 7, 2012 15:56:02 GMT -5
Hi John,
I think aside from swapping 3-5 and 6-8 connections for 5-7 and 4-6 plus the jumper you need for your three independent outputs scheme they are identical. Excellent! Cheers Daniel
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 10, 2012 9:49:37 GMT -5
Something like this:
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 13, 2012 4:02:52 GMT -5
BUMP. Calling JohnH.....
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Post by JohnH on Dec 13, 2012 14:25:27 GMT -5
Danny, that will work fine. It combines the wiring to turn your switches into the equivalent of a 6 lug on-on-on, with the cap selection function.
But your switches with 8 lugs are actually more versatile, so in this case, you could get less wiring and do the job just with one side of your switch Ill leave it to you to work that one out!
John
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 13, 2012 17:49:39 GMT -5
John, You mean just run one from each of the three and tie at one end? That would pop-tastic wouldn't it? I mean there would be problems with built up charge? Incidentally, do they sell 4 lug SP3T?
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