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Post by wolf on May 12, 2015 19:37:42 GMT -5
Well, here is a guitar with a movable pickup.
/video_share
I was just wondering what the Guitar Nuts thought of this.
(I'm sure even a few of us may have already toyed with this idea).
That site seems to be a development site asking for backers or whatever.
I have a feeling if this ever gets into production it will probably be expen$ive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 23:18:47 GMT -5
The pup should go deeper as it reaches the neck and higher as it reaches the bridge in order to achieve balance. Didn't notice it mentioned anything of the kind.
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nikogo
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Post by nikogo on May 13, 2015 4:18:49 GMT -5
I agree with Greekdude.
Adding the deep pup depth adjustment would " give guitarists maximum control over" volume too.
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Post by sumgai on May 13, 2015 10:06:20 GMT -5
The pup should go deeper as it reaches the neck and higher as it reaches the bridge in order to achieve balance. Err, balance with what? With only one pup onboard, there's nothing else to balance with, amiright? As to overall volume, the output will be so close in volume level as to be indistinguishable under all but the most critical of scenarios. However, a "depth" adjustment might make for a quick-and-dirty cure for the dreaded "Strat-itis", that I can agree to doing. To my mind, I'd put the sliding runway(s) on a ramp that can be adjusted on both ends, so that the player can get it "just right", no matter where the pup is currently located. BTW, newey and I, and a few other very-old-timers here in the NutzHouse kicked around this exact idea, probably 7 years ago, perhaps a bit more. I actually bought a used Squier Strat to play around with, but when we figured in the costs of shipping this thing around the country, we "put the project on hold", so to speak. How do I remember all this? Because I'm moving (well, the wife is moving, I'm just going along for the ride), and came across the box of parts for that guitar. Tossed it all in the dumpster. Come on, it was a Squier fercryinoutloud! I'm out only $40 (it was used, remember), and I don't wanna spend the time tryin' to sell it on craigslist - it ain't worth the effort of competing with GC and their sub-$100 new stuff (which come with at least some kind of warranty). That is all..... for now.  sumgai |
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Post by lunaalta on May 13, 2015 11:45:13 GMT -5
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Post by newey on May 13, 2015 14:21:28 GMT -5
The newer "pole position" claims a patent, although it's not clear exactly on what. ChrisK used to be all over this sort of thing; patent law requires a prospective patent to fully disclose what is known as "prior art", meaning any prior patent filings that cover similar ground. Failure to list the priors can leave the inventor liable in damages. And nowadays, with all the patents online and searchable, one cannot claim ignorance when there is an omission.
So, it would be interesting to see what the Pole position guy disclosed in his patent application.
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Post by ashcatlt on May 13, 2015 15:38:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with sumgai on the depth thing. I'd imagine it would have a pretty noticeable difference in overall volume if you move the exact same pickup from neck to bridge. Things are just plain louder at the neck. Now, neck angle/bridge height can have an impact on that, but usually this will mean that it's even closerer to the strings when moved toward the neck.
...But you're not probably going to be moving that thing in the middle of a song anyway...which means if you're into changing sounds in the middle of song...
...But my first thought was that it needed a B-Bender style lever system to move it in real time. That could be pretty cool!
Edit - Imagine an SSS strat where the middle pickup moved via that lever system. Put it in position 2 or 4 and you'd have something like a passive, mechanical wah!
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Post by JohnH on May 13, 2015 16:26:21 GMT -5
...But my first thought was that it needed a B-Bender style lever system to move it in real time. That could be pretty cool! Edit - Imagine an SSS strat where the middle pickup moved via that lever system. Put it in position 2 or 4 and you'd have something like a passive, mechanical wah! Yes, that, with a phase switch too. I reckon if you balanced an oop setting near the point of maximum cancelation, then you could get dramatic tonal changes with small movements of a lever that shifts one pickup. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 10:17:29 GMT -5
Err, balance with what? With only one pup onboard, there's nothing else to balance with, amiright? balance with the rest of the band I guess. |
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Post by cynical1 on May 17, 2015 17:33:30 GMT -5
As posted above, this is far from a new idea. If it was truly an idea worth keeping, my guess is more builders would do it.
If nothing else, it does provide a handy place to keep your cigarettes...
C1
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Post by mjcanavan63 on May 22, 2015 20:24:50 GMT -5
Mike Canavan of CMP Guitars here... Thanks for all the great (and not so great :-) ) comments, and some very interesting ideas which I always appreciate from serious players. Yes, moveable pickups have been done before (even before Wilkes or Armstrong), but they were all used as "settings" - you put the pickup where you wanted, then played. The Pole Position is the first to have a handle so that the sliding pickup can be used on the fly, as part of your playing. You couldn't change your pickup setting on any previous guitars without stopping. That is a very big difference to a creative player., and the basis for the patent. The questions about the effect of the large cavity on tone are valid, but the fact is the route is only slightly bigger than a standard Fender "swimming pool" route. Also, the pickup distance from the strings will be different at the neck to compensate for volume shift - very good point. Obviously, this guitar is not for everyone (what guitar is?) but better and more creative players than me have already done interesting things with it. Thanks for all the interest. Mike
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 11:41:19 GMT -5
Also, the pickup distance from the strings will be different at the neck to compensate for volume shift - very good point. Thanx Mike. |
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Post by sumgai on May 23, 2015 23:00:11 GMT -5
I'll echo greekdude's platitude... Mike, thanks, and welcome to The NutzHouse! I'm sure you can guess that you aren't the first inventor to come calling after a member has started a thread about some new guitar-related product. Most of us are rather polite in our dissenting opinions, and I think you'll agree that we didn't go overboard and get rude or anything, we just said "not for me", and left it at that. In your favor, and to your credit, you do recognize that this particular invention is not for everyone, and that indeed, there is a rich history of similar devices. I'm afraid that I'm one of those who isn't interested in such things, I feel that I've already got too many toys to play with, and that one more might spell the difference between barely able to keep up, and fully gone around the bend.  But if this thing moves smoothly, as you obviously intend, and if it does indeed produce a significant tonal shift, then I can see where some players might prefer this to, say, a wah pedal. But at that point, the only thing I'd worry about would be the durability. Will it last as long as most other guitars, at least those that have "moving parts" such as a vibrato? sumgai |
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Post by lookbunnyrabbit on Oct 31, 2015 23:20:02 GMT -5
Id like to see something along these lines. Where instead of the pup sliding, it rotates. (reversing the bridge pup angle)
I had fooled around with that on an old plycaster I have laying around. It works but I dont like the way the pickguard finishes out with its maxi pad hole. If you could solve that in a sexy manner.... just my .002
Like the inventiveness you have going though.
Mike
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Post by cynical1 on Nov 1, 2015 13:00:45 GMT -5
Id like to see something along these lines. Where instead of the pup sliding, it rotates. (reversing the bridge pup angle) Now that would be interesting. I had more than a few people come in over the years and ask for the humbucker to be flipped at the bridge. That does make it more involved when this becomes a random human generated event. The original designs going back to the 70's only involved one pickup moving on one axis only. Well, with the state of miniaturization in electronics...coupled with the state of carbon fiber technology... To really make this work over an extended period of time you need some type of commutator design. This would allow you to put the pickup at any Z axis position on a 360 degree rotation. Mount the pickup to a plate, ring gear the plate and drive it from a small motor. Hell, use another set of rack gears and another motor and allow full range on the Y off the plate. Just use carbon fiber louvering, machined nice and clean, use a small joystick controller, and almost anyone could operate on the fly...yeah, that'd be cool... However, when you total it up, who's gonna cough up the coin to buy it? That's sort of why the idea never went anywhere. The closest I got to this was taking an HSH guitar and setting it up so the middle pickup could slide and tilt to the high or low side, at any point between the two humbuckers. I never liked the louvering I did, but the semi-commutator and gearing did hold up. I played with it off and on for a while, had mild interest from people who tried it, but never had any real takers so I abandoned the project. I was a bit late to the party as this was back in the mid 80's... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by JohnH on Nov 3, 2015 14:27:00 GMT -5
Id like to see something along these lines. Where instead of the pup sliding, it rotates. (reversing the bridge pup angle) I had fooled around with that on an old plycaster I have laying around. It works but I dont like the way the pickguard finishes out with its maxi pad hole. If you could solve that in a sexy manner.... just my .002 Like the inventiveness you have going though. Mike This is interesting, but I reckon that some kind of mock-up would be advisable before commiting to a full build. I suspect that the difference may not be so dramatic as to warrant such adjustment. The slant angle on a strat bridge pickup is 10 degrees, and the pickup centre is about 41mm from the bridge. based on around 50mm string spacing, the forward bass-side pole is about 45.5mm from the bridge. If the angle is reversed it will be about 36.5mm from it. The bass output from the lowest string will be expected to vary over this range by a factor of 45.5/36.5 = 1.25. this in db terms, is 1.9db. Noticeable, but not huge. Maybe if the control could add extra slant it might be more dramatic. Also, changing the slant will shuffle the relative amplitudes of higher harmonics, which might be noticeable. |
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Post by lookbunnyrabbit on Nov 3, 2015 15:45:08 GMT -5
Its funny, but after talking about this and me finding that old plycaster while looking for a switch the other day. I'm thinking about playing with this concept some more. I also see no real value to it other than the novelty of it. Most of the tonal differences can be made up threw the FX chain or an on-board module. Heres something mentally unbalanced that just popped into my mind. If you create a "horn ring" like connection with a motor driving a pup at say 50-1000rpm... I did say it was mentally unbalanced. And before anyone entertains the idea. The DC motor would cause it to howl like hell. (maybe a hand crank in the back)  |
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Post by newey on Nov 3, 2015 23:43:19 GMT -5
Oh, I don't think we've gone over the edge to "mentally unbalanced" quite yet, not with just the motorized moving pickup thing . . .My thought was that the pickup moves like a "MagLev" train in a little trough, using its magnets to glide along, all the while the pickup signal is induced into the magnetic coils of the trough . . . That's mentally unbalanced . . .  |
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Post by lookbunnyrabbit on Nov 4, 2015 1:00:15 GMT -5
Yup.
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onemc4you
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Post by onemc4you on Jan 3, 2019 16:53:57 GMT -5
Thats too many choices. 5 way switch is plenty. A sliding pickup is for OCD people. Jimmy Hendrix bridge pickup was reverse angled and had a different tone. But two pickups have a phasing, mutual connection which when both on, have a fingerprint quality. Meaning, none are the same.
Good luck and sleepless nights with that guitar. Lol.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 3, 2019 18:14:51 GMT -5
Sort of a necrobump, onemc4you, but I reckon that's not too much of a problem. Thats too many choices. 5 way switch is plenty. A sliding pickup is for OCD people. Jimmy Hendrix bridge pickup was reverse angled and had a different tone. But two pickups have a phasing, mutual connection which when both on, have a fingerprint quality. Meaning, none are the same. Good luck and sleepless nights with that guitar. Lol. You misspelled not enough. Each coil should move independently and there should be somewhere between 5 and 10 choices on combinations, including partial coupling or bypass via capacitors. |
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Post by newey on Jan 3, 2019 22:39:41 GMT -5
Cyn 1 speaking of a sort-of turntable arrangement, using a commutator set-up to connect the moving pickup, put me in mind of the Aston Martin DB4 that Sean Connery had in Goldfinger (IIRC). The one with the rotating license plates on a wheel, so the number could be changed. How about, say, three distinctly different pickups on a rotating wheel arrangement, with the axis of rotation parallel to (and coplanar with) the pickguard, such that each of the three pups, in turn, would "rotate up" into the active position under the strings, while the other two would be below the pickguard and disconnected. A commutator arrangement would connect each pickup in turn, as it was rotated into place beneath the strings. You could have rubber flaps to cover the larger hole needed to rotate the pickups. And, you'd need a deep body and probably some pickups with not-too-tall bobbins.
But you could, for example, rotate your bridge pickup from a vintage-type for clean playing to an overwound one for the solo, mid-song. Just like rotating the license plates in the 007 movie long ago.
Or, it might be easier and more practical to just have two pickups that flip over 180°.
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Post by Yogi B on Jan 4, 2019 9:02:54 GMT -5
You misspelled not enough. Each coil should move independently and there should be somewhere between 5 and 10 choices on combinations, including partial coupling or bypass via capacitors. You mean each of the six coils of a hexaphonic pickup (or two), right? Or stick with just the one fixed hexaphonic pickup and go the digital modelling route à la Variax, Roland guitar synths, and their ilk. a rotating wheel arrangement, with the axis of rotation parallel to (and coplanar with) the pickguard It's a different arrangement, with the axis of rotation perpendicular to the face of the body, but the mention of a wheel put me in mind of this: |
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Post by thetragichero on Jan 4, 2019 9:08:27 GMT -5
I don't know how the wires don't get tangled
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 4, 2019 9:17:52 GMT -5
I don't know how the wires don't get tangled I reckon there are a set of contacts where the selected pickup is connected only when it's rotated into position. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 4, 2019 9:38:52 GMT -5
You mean each of the six coils of a hexaphonic pickup (or two), right? Brace yourself, Yogi. |
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Post by sumgai on Jan 4, 2019 11:40:27 GMT -5
..... You could have rubber flaps to cover the larger hole needed to rotate the pickups. Runewalker gets his wish - Tone Rubber! |
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axedoctor
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Post by axedoctor on Jan 4, 2019 12:26:40 GMT -5
this place is so aptly named |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 4, 2019 13:16:57 GMT -5
..... You could have rubber flaps to cover the larger hole needed to rotate the pickups. Runewalker gets his wish - Tone Rubber! I thought it was Tone Plastic? |
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Post by thetragichero on Jan 4, 2019 21:00:47 GMT -5
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