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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 4, 2005 16:45:12 GMT -5
I don't think I'm ever going to find a "Les Paul-type" pickup selector switch that will do the N/B/Both series/Both parallel trick, and those Tele 4-way switches aren't going to work, either. I'm looking at rotary switches, hoping to find something that will fit in the existing cavity and might be less expensive than the Allparts EP_0920-000. (Which is a 4P6T.) I'd be quite content with a four-position rotary, but am not sure about the minimum number of poles needed to make it work right. The rotary switch would be better for a "no-drill option," but I might go for two DPDT toggle switches as a last resort, assuming there's enough space in the cavity.
So, 4P4T rotary, or . . . ?
-- Doug C.
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Post by wolf on Dec 4, 2005 18:30:45 GMT -5
Mini-Strat
More than finding the right switch or switches, are you planning this switching on 2 humbuckers ? The reason I ask this is because if you have those chrome-covered Gibson humbuckers, series wiring would be out of the question. Why? Because one of those humbucker covers would have to go to a "hot" connection making it vulnerable for excessive hum and if the string which is grounded, hits a humbucker cover which is hot, you'll get a dead short.
Okay, let's suppose that is not the case. If you have a 2 pickup guitar you already have 3 of the 4 switching arrangements you want. Personally, I'd go with another switch for the series wiring. So, I'd vote for the current pickup switch plus a DPDT toggle for series wiring.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 4, 2005 19:35:15 GMT -5
More than finding the right switch or switches, are you planning this switching on 2 humbuckers ? The reason I ask this is because if you have those chrome-covered Gibson humbuckers, series wiring would be out of the question. Why? Because one of those humbucker covers would have to go to a "hot" connection making it vulnerable for excessive hum and if the string which is grounded, hits a humbucker cover which is hot, you'll get a dead short. Funny you should mention that, Wolf. I just got done reading some Deaf Eddie stuff about people who use two-lead metal-covered pups having a problem with some of his rigs like the Fat-O-Caster, etc. But no, I have a set of GFS Crunchy PAFs coming for it, so I should be "golden." It may come to that. I have some mini-toggles kicking around, 3PDT on/none/on, and I tried a couple of those to check the fit in the cavity where the original selector was. Should be no problem. In Googling around this afternoon, I ran across John A.'s T-Riffic page. I might go with the 4P6T as he did, and do any phasing changes via that switch, too. (Yeah, I saw the part about how much fun they areN'T to solder on.) After reading Deaf Eddie's pages, it dawned on me that the common Strat and Tele switches might also be called a rotary switch, so I'll specify that I'm thinking of a "horizontal" one. Thanks for the reply.
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Post by Runewalker on Dec 4, 2005 20:33:14 GMT -5
This thread: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1117172128Is a design discussion thread that yiels both 3 pup designs, but also a compact HH design using a 5way rotary for each -Hum in a 2H design. 5 within -Hum configs: 1. Series 2. Parallel 3. Inner coil 4. Outer Coil 5. Series out of phase You could of course get a 6way and do Parallel out of phase, but it would be so thin as to be purely a novelty. Then you have switch for System Series or Parallel. 2 pups, 5configs per = 10 pups. Plus Series/Parallel and you can even throw in system out of phase. I won't spend the time doing the math but you've got lots of options. One nice feature of this design is the ability to throw both -hums into single coil and combine them as humcanceling, Series or Parallel. The other thing it perseverates about is a blend control to manage the contribution of each pickup to the system mix. It is like haveing a full range EQ, opposed to just selecting one or 3 frequencies to attenuate. Hats off to John H in the electronics. RW
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 4, 2005 21:59:48 GMT -5
You could of course get a 6way and do Parallel out of phase, but it would be so thin as to be purely a novelty. I never used to be all that het up about phase changing, but after listening to a few sound clips with it that others have posted, it might be kind of interesting. (At least as long as it doesn't too badly prolong the agony of getting something wired up.) Agreed. And to you for pointing out that link. EDIT: I got to the GN thread okay, but the links in it come up "File not found" or some such. I tried changing the URL in the one from '%20' to '_' in all the right places, but that didn't placate it. The Seymour Duncan one I can probably get to from their home page, unless their site is down. I'm a big fan of "elegant in their simplicity" wiring diagrams.
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Post by wolf on Dec 4, 2005 23:52:08 GMT -5
Okay I'm back AND I drew one of my diagrams.
Talk about elegant simplicity huh? Granted, I didn't draw in the volume or tone pots but it shows the "nitty-gritty" of the series parallel arrangement. I was right in thinking that you can continue using the factory installed 3 way switch. The only new component you'll need is a DPDT switch with NO center position. Is there a "downside" to this arrangement? Just one. When the DPDT switch is in the series position, that's all you are going to get. The 3 way switch in the "neck" and "both" pickup positions will just be BOTH pickups wired in series. Move the 3 way switch to the Bridge pickup and the guitar goes dead. Still, I prefer this to a rotary switch. But that's just me. Then again, you could go to Seymour Duncan Harumph !!! Seriously, I think my diagram is exactly what you want but you will have to drill another hole for the switch.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 5, 2005 0:17:04 GMT -5
Okay I'm back AND I drew one of my diagrams. {snipped link to cool diagram} Talk about elegant simplicity huh? Beauty! I had been giving some thought to a kill (actually a standby) switch. Now I just have to remember that it's there. Or, maybe one of these could be adapted to the DPDT: www.cyberguys.com/images/prod_images/p4739a.jpg Not a big deal; it's not like the axe I'm planning on doing these mods to is any collctor's item. Thanks, Wolf.
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Post by wolf on Dec 5, 2005 0:28:50 GMT -5
Glad you like the diagram. Although the guitar goes silent at one of the settings, it is in effect not a true kill switch. Both pickups are merely "shut off" whereas (I think) a true kill switch short circuits the "hot" to the ground. (Just as any guitar volume control does at "zero".) Still it should make an adequate kill switch.
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 5, 2005 13:14:08 GMT -5
...Still, I prefer this to a rotary switch. But that's just me....me too! especially unless it's the lever-action 4-pole 5-position variety.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 5, 2005 13:49:21 GMT -5
...Still, I prefer this to a rotary switch. But that's just me.... me too! especially the lever-action 4-pole 5-position variety. Yep, it wasn't too long before I realized that a Tele switch just wasn't gonna fly in an LP body. And that's the term I was looking for, for the "vertical" types: lever-action. I'm still considering all my options. I've gotten the old pups, selector switch, and output jack out of it. (The jack plate was bent.) Maybe heatshrink tubing hadn't been invented when those pups were installed. (I'm not all that neat with electrical tape myself.) One more project to keep me of the streets and out of mischief. ;D
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 6, 2005 15:39:47 GMT -5
Well, whaddya know; I found some more info on using a 4P6T rotary switch on the original GN Forum, from x189player. He had pretty much the same idea as I do for the positions of the selector switch. Had to see what Google had cached for it, of course, and there are only schematics, but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 6, 2005 16:34:15 GMT -5
...but you will have to drill another hole for the switch.
maybe not so much. since the dpdt is 2 position, can you say "push-pull pot", i'll bet you can! i like levers better, and they're certainly cheaper. but for those who have an aversion to putting more holes in their guitars, a push-pull will get the job done.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 6, 2005 18:44:01 GMT -5
...but you will have to drill another hole for the switch. maybe not so much. since the dpdt is 2 position, can you say "push-pull pot", i'll bet you can! i like levers better, and they're certainly cheaper. but for those who have an aversion to putting more holes in their guitars, a push-pull will get the job done. I like those, too. I thought somewhere in all this I had mentioned using the rotary switch for selecting/combining the pups (with all the series/parallel/phase options thereof), and push/pulls for shunting and other tricks on each pup. Looking over this thread, I think it was probably in the "Jimmy Page mods" discussion that I mentioned the push/pulls. There may still be something for which I have to drill a new hole, but I'm gonna try to keep it as stock-looking as possible.
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Post by wolf on Dec 6, 2005 23:03:47 GMT -5
I usually don't even consider the push pull pot for switching. Generally, I like to use parts that are easily available anywhere. Granted, you could always keep extra 500 K DPDT switching pots around but what if you don't have them readily available? If you needed to find a DPDT toggle in an emergency, there's always Radio Shack but don't expect to find 500K DPDT switching pots there. I also don't like the "action" of a switching pot. It doesn't have a positive "feel" and sometimes it is difficult to see which position it is in. I've also found the DPDT switch of a push pull pot to be kind of flimsy and not as long-lasting when compared to a regular DPDT toggle switch. Don't like drilling holes in you guitar? Well, if you have an SG or a Les Paul you have 2 volumes and 2 tone controls. You can eliminate 1 volume and 1 tone and put switches in their place and wire the remaining pots for master volume and master tone. If you have a Strat, get another pickguard and drill the heck out of it. Should you wish to go back to the original look, put in the original switch and pickguard. OR replace one of the tone controls with a switch and make the other a master tone control. Those are some ways to avoid 1) push pull pots and 2) drilling extra holes. But that's just my view.
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 7, 2005 11:56:44 GMT -5
wolf, now that's what i'm talkin' 'bout! a million different ways to skin the same cat. pick the one you like best! aint it great to have options? Doug, speaking of options, you might want to look a the "motherbucker" wiring diagram. guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wiring&thread=1130172881&page=2it uses 2 dpdt switches (2 position). and you get: - both series
- bridge only
- neck only
- both parallel
since you only have 4 combinations for a pair of 2 position switches, if you want a kill switch, you'll have to do that separately. (or you might be able to do a 3 position ON-ON-ON for one of them, and make the center position a kill -- haven't thought that one through yet.) unk
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unclejam
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by unclejam on Dec 8, 2005 19:48:35 GMT -5
hey u might wanna check out a balance/taper pot from guitarelectronic.com that should give you the desired effect.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 14, 2005 16:50:36 GMT -5
I have the 4P6T rotary (complete with "chickenhead" knob) on order. If someone could point me to a wiring diagram (or would be willing to draw one) for the following, that would be much appreciated. - Neck
- Neck + Bridge, series
- NB, parallel
- N+B series, out of phase
- NB parallel, out of phase
- Bridge
Each (GFS) humbucker will have its own DPDT on/on/on switch for series/parallel/shunt. Jay at GuitarFetish just sent me a PDF of the GFS humbucker wiring diagram/color code, but I haven't figured out yet how to get it onto here. I did manage to pinch this text out of it: "Connect Red and White wires together. Tape these off for full humbucker performance, connect to ground for Coil Tap. This will engage ONLY the neck side coil. Connect green [Hot] to + output, Black and Silver (Shield) to - output. (Ground)" Best I can tell, the "slug" (white) half of each Zebra is north, and the north sides face each other when the neck and bridge pups are in their respective locations, if that makes a difference anywhere. (Phase changes?) The PRS-style drawings at GuitarElectronics and elsewhere are okay, but I'd like to be able to do any series/parallel choices with both coils of each, and do any singlecoil options via the toggle switches, if that's possible. Thanks for any assistance. -- Doug C. President, Networking for the Diagramatically Impaired
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Post by Runewalker on Dec 14, 2005 20:43:17 GMT -5
Mini- I'm no help on the 5 way, but Jay has always said his color scheme is the same as Duncan's and when I have wired his pups to duncan codes they have always performed.
Therefore there may be something on SDuncan support/wiring links.
RW
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Dec 14, 2005 23:39:39 GMT -5
Mini- I'm no help on the 5 way, but Jay has always said his color scheme is the same as Duncan's and when I have wired his pups to duncan codes they have always performed. That's always a good sign, eh? In effect, you've already done the "smoke tests" for me. (If no smoke comes out, it may be wired right.) ;D Thanks for the tip; they do have a bunch of diagrams, but all I've found so far that use a rotary switch are 5-way "PRS type." I could pass up something like both-parallel/out-of-phase, but those designs use one coil of each pup for series or parallel combos, not really what I'm after. I'm looking for something more like what X189Player wrote about in an 11/04 thread on the original forum. He called it an "MPC-style 'Tone Spectrum Circuit'." There's a schematic there, but I need more of a "road map" to do any wiring. This afternoon, I found a chart at the HAS Sound site, www.has-sound.com/info.htm. GuitarElectronics.com has something similar, but they don't list GFS in theirs. The HAS Sound chart confirms what you wrote about Duncan and GFS being the same color code/polarity arrangement. Thanks, RW.
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cband7
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Post by cband7 on Jan 7, 2006 1:26:25 GMT -5
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Jan 7, 2006 2:06:28 GMT -5
Had quite a time with the "wrap" on that URL, but I got it. Well, the "2 for $4.99" deal doesn't sound too bad, depending what the shipping charges are. But if wiring one of those rotaries is as much fun as John Atchley suggested on one of his GN pages, I don't anticipate doing more than one. I already have a 6-position switch that was less than $20, including a "chicken head" knob. The shipping on that was $6.50, which was enough to bring another $64 or so worth of parts and supplies to me along with the switch. So now that I have the switch, I either need a wiring diagram, or an Immediate Reality Orientation (smack upside the head) to get me working on it from a different direction.
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