Tele Shielding Questions

[blumo1a]

Hello. First post here. I have a Muddy Waters Fender Tele with stock pup's. Recently followed the shielding instructions from this site. Unfortunately there is no difference. Still a hum. I'm not expecting it to go away but was hoping for a little reduction. I wouldn't be surprised if I have some type of loop going on. I had to alter the directions for shielding a little. The tele I have screws the neck pup into the neck pup cavity, rather than to the pickguard like the instructions. Is there anything different that needs to be done to avoid problems with this different configuration? When I layed the copper foil in the neck cavity I cut around the screw holes so they wouldn't connect. I also added a jumper wire from the neck cavity to the wire channel. Then from the wire channel to the control cavity. In the control cavity I insulated the pots from touching the cavity wall with a little vinyl tape. Please click on the link below for a pic.
tele shielding pic
Thank you,
Lance

[eljib]

Welcome to the Forum!

It looks like you've sheilded everything well. Are you doing any other mods at this time? I seem to remember that when I sheilded my tele I had to isolate the metal pup cover from the copper foil (this was for the T-riffic mod). It looks to me like the cover is touching the foil inside the cavity on the neck side, so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, does it make noise all around, or is one pickup "hummier" than the other. (Just as I wrote that, I realized that your bridge pup will almost certainly be quieter due to that HUGE metal plate it's hiding behind, but I think its a good question, nonetheless).

Don't forget to make sure that there is continuity throughout the shielded portions of your guitar. If your pickups are really high then that could cause some hum as well. Also, I am unfamiliar with the Buddy Guy Tele. You say it is equipped with stock pups, but I would bet that stock Buddy Guy signature model pups are a little hotter than the standard stockies. Somewhere in GN1 there is a refference to shielding individual pups with copper tape if they extend too far from the scratchplate and/or are hot pickups. I believe this will alter your tone, however.

[pollyshero]

I agree that you should expect at least some reduction, however I recently shielded a Tele myself (Texas Special pups). The results weren't spectacular (it still hums a bit), but they were noticeable.

Are you certain the hum is from the guitar and not the amp? Have you tried a different cord? Does the hum intensity change when you move in relation to the amp? Did you use the two-conductor shielded wire for the output jack and is the shield connected properly (soldered at the jack and NOT soldered or connected at the pot)? What about your playing environment (flourescent lights/good power/ground at the wall sockets/proximity to computer monitor/tv/cordless phones)? What about the signal chain? Are you plugged directly into the amp or going through a few pedals that might be inducing hum?

All these things and more can affect the hum factor. Don't overlook them - rule everything else out before you go in for more surgery.

If everything external is a "go", and all the other wiring is correct and they still hum.... I'd have to shrug.

[blumo1a]

Thank you. I've been learning a lot so far. This small problem with the shielding has gotten me to figure out how things work better though I have limited electronic knowledge. In answer to the question above:
Q:Are you doing any other mods at this time?
A:No.
Q:Does it make noise all around, or is one pickup "hummier" than the other?
A:Actually they all hum the same. The middle pickup isn't wired for out of phase.
Also I did check to make sure the metal from the chrom cover is not touching the foil. And again, I did make sure to cut away foil from around where the screws go into the wood in the neck cavity. Could this still be a problem?
The pickups for the tele are definitely hotter than stock. Not as hot at Texas Specials. I guess that's whay I like them so well and reluctant to change them to hum-cancelling ones. They aren't too high in placement. I'd say normal.

Q: Are you certain the hum is from the guitar and not the amp?
A: Yes. I plugged the guitar into a battery operated Pignose. Still has the hum.
Q: Have you tried a different cord?
A: Yes. Monster cable and regular Fender chord.
Q: Does the hum intensity change when you move in relation to the amp?
A: Yes. Goes from quiet to loud as I move direction around the room.
Q: Did you use the two-conductor shielded wire for the output jack and is the shield connected properly (soldered at the jack and NOT soldered or connected at the pot)?
A: This is where there may be a problem as I'm not sure what this is. I didn't solder anything new to output jack.
Q: What about your playing environment?
A: Flourescent lights. I've turned them off and have moved to a different part of the house with the Pignose. Still hums

I'm interested in finding out more about the connectors to the jack. This may be the missing link.
Thank you,
Lance

[pollyshero]

Go to the "Queting the Beast" article
Step 16 explains the connection in detail. Some folks have been having trouble finding the 2 conductor + shield audio wire - I had to go to three different Radio Shacks... They sell it as "24-Gauge Audio Cable, Two conductors plus shield". From the sticker I'm guessing the stock number is 278-513. The bar code numbers are 040293119393.

If you don't want 50 feet (seems like that's all they sell) PM me or email your address & I'll send you a few feet.

Good luck

[blumo1a]

PollysHero-Thanks for the clarification. I'm hoping that might be the answer. I avoided looking at the Strat shielding since I was working on a Tele. I would assume then that this is an important step to shielding a telecaster also and not just a strat? I'll check at the local electronics store and radio shack.
Lance

[JohnH]

I find that shielding makes a small difference to hum, that is most noticeable on pup combinations which are basically hum cancelling, such as positions 2 and 4 on a Strat, or a normal Hb pup. Where single coils are used, or non hum-cancelling combos, I dont notice any significant difference, since the pups themselves overwhelm the bit of hum that shielding can reduce. So my question is: Does your tele have a hum cancelling combination of neck and bridge? It should be very noticeably less hum compared to a single coil, with or without shielding.

[blumo1a]

John, thanks for replying.
My tele isn't wired for hum cancelling in the middle position. I'm not sure why.
Lance

[eljib]

blumo1a said:

I'm interested in finding out more about the connectors to the jack. This may be the missing link.
Thank you,
Lance

When you solder the +&- leads to the output jack make sure that you connect the shielding lead of the wire (or the shielding itself if there is no seperate wire inside the insulating rubber coating) directly to the negative lead. This ensures that the length of wire running from your controls to your jack wont be susceptible to noise.

Actually, I don't think it should matter for a tele because if you've got all your metal parts connected to ground (without loops) then you shouldn't need to worry about the half inch of unshielded wire. Looking over John A's original instructions again I realized that he doesn't even call for shielded wire to be added. Now I remember why I was able to do it so fast.

If you're not getting 60 cycle hum, as evidenced by your Pignose experiment, then I would say it's interference getting picked up by your controls (my unshielded LP's are noisey even with the HB's). But if you're properly shielded then you shouldn't be getting that problem.

Does the intensity increase/decrease in relation to your position to the Battery powered amp? What does it do when you take that same setup someplace where outside interference is not an issue?

I hope some of this made sense, because I am really tired and think I might be babbling on a bit. If so, sorry.

[bam]

sorry for butting in, but..
1. welcome !
2. is the chrome pup cover has a "cover bare ground" wire ? if it's yes, then forget about pup cavity shield, and emphasize on (control) cavity shield.
3. a QTB mod WON'T do anything good if your amp is not grounded. Your amp is battery powered, so I assume it's not grounded. If your amp's position is far away from the mother earth (i.e. in the 10th floor on an apartment), then ground it to the nearest METAL plumbing.

.. good luck, and pardon me if there's any post I missed to read. I'm in a hurry.