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Post by unreg on Apr 15, 2020 22:15:21 GMT -5
My CTS pot is covered with a thin layer of solder, from what I’ve read people say, so does that mean I should use a different technique applying solder, whenever the solder arrives?
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Post by newey on Apr 16, 2020 6:26:02 GMT -5
Do you mean that the lugs of the pot have been pre-tinned with solder?
Or that the entire thing is covered in solder? Never heard of that.
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Post by unreg on Apr 16, 2020 10:02:05 GMT -5
Thank you for replying newey!  Hmm... I’m not sure; will have to research again later when I have time. |
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Post by unreg on Apr 17, 2020 11:02:53 GMT -5
newey, the CTS pots from StewMac aren’t covered with anything. Phew. However someone says that RS Guitarworks pots are covered in a thin layer of solder... I’m not sure I believe that guy bc the RS Guitarworks site doesn’t say anything about the solder cover, at least not on the page I linked... maybe they say something about that all of their pots are coated in a thin layer of solder somewhere higher toward the site’s surface? edit: The pot pictured, in ^that link, looks like it may be covered in a thin layer of solder, though, to me at least. EDIT-FINISHED The place where I read that is: mylespaul forum thread, but b-squared, the author of that statement, has been “banned”, whatever that means. |
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Post by unreg on Apr 17, 2020 18:43:59 GMT -5
^So that guy, b-squared, was telling the truth: edit: that should please you reTrEaD, right? final-edit: Though, from what I’ve learned, enough heat and a clean pot will make solder stick regardless... |
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Post by newey on Apr 18, 2020 7:12:43 GMT -5
OK, never heard of that. When soldering to the backs of pots, I do sand the surface a bit to roughen it up for solder adhesion, then wipe with a bit of alcohol to clean it.
But mostly, I avoid soldering anything to the backs of pots in the first place.
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billy
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Post by billy on Apr 24, 2020 23:35:51 GMT -5
*NEVER* sand or scratch the back of a pot to prepare it for soldering...here's why: - When you sand the back of a pot (so you can solder to it), you are sanding off the very thing that helps your solder connection 'stick' to the pot - the 'tin' (very thin layer of solder/plating). CTS pots are covered with it for a reason - without that tinning at the factory, soldering to the pot becomes problematic. It's a popular past-time, as people used to have to scratch the back of pots because they were plated with cadmium and other such evil metals that no solder would stick to...you had to scratch the stuff off to get anything done. Unfortunately, that rule of thumb has lasted decades. Times have changed, and we don't use those anymore.
- When you sand the back of a pot, you release millions of negatively-charged microscopic particles (ions). They are released everywhere, including the inside of the pot, where it will make the pot sound 'scratchy' when you turn it...static electricity. Since they are negatively-charged, they are virtually impossible to remove.
You never have to sand the back of a pot to get your solder and components to stick - it is a popular misconception passed on by multitudes of hear-say, bad internet, and "techs of 30 years". You just need proper soldering technique and the proper iron (40w-60w, 700F-800F). Too low and you'll burn/warp parts just as bad as a 100w. With a low watt/temp iron, the time you will have spend keeping that iron on the parts will eventually warp them before you can get the part up to temp to melt the solder and make it stick to the pot. Warped pot, burned cap, dead short on braided wire, etc.
This concludes this public service announcement. billy |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 3:24:31 GMT -5
Why don't pots have a solder tag like the push pull ones then!
Could put a tag around neck of the pot then to ground
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billy
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Post by billy on Apr 25, 2020 11:49:37 GMT -5
Why don't pots have a solder tag like the push pull ones then! Could put a tag around neck of the pot then to ground
If I remember correctly, there are only two companies making push/pulls - Alpha and CTS...maybe Bourns (but I think Alpha makes them for Bourns - and they have that awful cadmium plating on them). They make pots in alot of different ways for their customers. The 'solder tags' are just one way they make push/pulls, but they can have their limitations based on what you need them for. Solder legs, PC legs, even through-hole PCB's. It basically falls on you to purchase the push/pulls you want for your purpose.
It's alot easier (and better) to solder to the back or side of the pot can for your ground. Using mechanical grounds (fixtures to achieve ground without actually soldering) will eventually fail at the worst moment. Something that was soldered correctly in the first place, your soldered ground connection will never fail.
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Post by unreg on Apr 25, 2020 23:30:14 GMT -5
Thank you so much billy for sharing your wonderful knowledge!  The solder I’m going to use hasn’t arrived yet; I’m definitely not going to sand the CTS pot before it’s finally installed; thank you! billy is Billy from RS Guitarworks right? Billy asked to see the thread, I responded way late, and now you’ve appeared. |
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billy
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Post by billy on Apr 26, 2020 19:47:20 GMT -5
Yes, it's me...
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Post by unreg on May 1, 2020 13:57:28 GMT -5
billy and everyone, the washer I’m trying to make a star ground on must be coated with a clear covering bc the solder doesn’t stick to the metal. If I sand the clear covering off will the negative ions be removable? How? edit: billy said the negatively charged ions are virtuously impossible to remove... but, this sanding will be outside of the guitar cavity. Just still wondering if the necessary sanding will become problematic. final-edit: And I’m sorry that this new question doesn’t fit with the thread topic...  I just wanted billy to see this question. |
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Post by newey on May 1, 2020 15:11:10 GMT -5
Billy was talking about sanding a pot. Sanding a washer should be fine.
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Post by unreg on May 1, 2020 17:18:04 GMT -5
Billy was talking about sanding a pot. Sanding a washer should be fine. Thank you newey! I’m sorry, I guess that learning new things is fun for me, but: is sanding a washer fine bc the washer is just a material, unlike the pot which regulates or restricts current? This is fun to learn! |
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billy
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Post by billy on May 4, 2020 10:21:40 GMT -5
billy and everyone, the washer I’m trying to make a star ground on must be coated with a clear covering bc the solder doesn’t stick to the metal. If I sand the clear covering off will the negative ions be removable? How? edit: billy said the negatively charged ions are virtuously impossible to remove... but, this sanding will be outside of the guitar cavity. Just still wondering if the necessary sanding will become problematic. final-edit: And I’m sorry that this new question doesn’t fit with the thread topic... I just wanted billy to see this question. You're going through a whole lotta minutia just to achieve ground. Solder your ground wires to the back of pot, not to a washer. BTW, the reason you can't solder to a washer is probably because it's chrome...find the nickel ones...  Chrome has a blue-ish tint in white light, while nickel has a yellow-ish tint...
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Post by unreg on May 4, 2020 15:44:00 GMT -5
BTW, the reason you can't solder to a washer is probably because it's chrome...find the nickel ones... Chrome has a blue-ish tint in white light, while nickel has a yellow-ish tint... It’s an Everbilt washer from a package that says “FENDER WASHERS” and “STAINLESS”... so I’m guessing it’s stainless steel? Thank you billy! edit: After looking in some light, it doesn’t appear to have a blueish or yellow-ish tint; the tint appears white-ish. final-edit: No, honestly, I guess it would be more correct to write “there is no tint at all”... it’s silver-ish. |
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Post by newey on May 5, 2020 4:48:44 GMT -5
The word "stainless" would seem to identify your problem . . . There are various types, but all add chromium to the steel to make it stainless. "Fender Washers" are for mounting car fenders, and are stainless since they are exposed to the elements in/under your car. And, they probably cost triple what a regular steel washer would have cost you. |
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Post by unreg on May 5, 2020 10:21:51 GMT -5
Ok, thank you newey! My washer buying skills have been greatly improved thanks to you and billy. I’ll search for a nickel washer; thank you billy! The fender washer is/was the right size... oh well. |
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Post by unreg on May 5, 2020 10:33:16 GMT -5
You're going through a whole lotta minutia just to achieve ground. Solder your ground wires to the back of pot, not to a washer. Soldering to a washer bc I need a washer to ground the cavity... it has black “paint” on the walls and that black conducts a current. |
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billy
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Post by billy on May 5, 2020 13:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by unreg on May 5, 2020 16:05:23 GMT -5
Wow! Thank you billy! Is that giant? (Can’t find its measurements.) The washer needs to go on the cavity’s wall... only have about an inch and a half vertically to work with. The cavity’s bottom is not wood; rather it’s the same material as the front of the guitar. So, I don’t think a washer should be attached to the cavity’s bottom. A 1.25” diameter fender washer fit nicely on the cavity wall. That is really cheap! I would totally get that solder lug washer if it isn’t giant. edit: Maybe I should ask them. End-edit Found these: McMaster’s 400 Nickel washers, but was going to buy the size that comes in a package of 10. (Though, I only need 1.) That’s $10. final-edit: the cavity bottom IS covered with the black conductive “paint”, but the surface is not wood. |
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Post by unreg on May 5, 2020 21:23:45 GMT -5
Thank you again billy for your link! allparts has a warehouse in Houston, Tx and I live near that area! They are a guitar parts company, but they don’t have a brick and mortar store. However, they have a link to their allparts distributor page AND there’s a place really close to my house that might sell that solder lug washer! Going to call tomorrow and see if I can go and see that solder lug washer for myself... so excited! Thank you so much once again billy! |
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Post by billy on May 5, 2020 21:53:34 GMT -5
You realize that you can use any screw, and make a 'loop' in the wire, secure the 'loop' around the screw, and screw it down into the wood. Done.
Once the wire makes contact with the screw and the conductive paint, that's good enough for electrons. No need for washers or anything specialized. |
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Post by unreg on May 6, 2020 0:03:53 GMT -5
You realize that you can use any screw, and make a 'loop' in the wire, secure the 'loop' around the screw, and screw it down into the wood. Done.
Once the wire makes contact with the screw and the conductive paint, that's good enough for electrons. No need for washers or anything specialized. That is good to know billy, thank you! I’ve been looking forward to making a star ground point on a washer... and I’m aware that correctly soldered connections last a great large amount of time; while, if a screw is holding a wire to the wall AND it becomes loose, then the cavity’s ground connection can fail. With a washer, I get to make a star ground point AND the connection will last a great large amount of time. That pleases me so I’m going to attempt to learn more about this washer you’ve linked to. |
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Post by newey on May 6, 2020 6:14:05 GMT -5
With the washer, what you are making is a "grounding buss". It doesn't need to be round, and it doesn't need to be a washer or a screw. As Billy notes, electricity cares only about conductivity, not geometry.
I'm not going to go to the trouble of destringing a guitar and removing the pickguard just to get a photo, but as an example, on a couple of occasions I have used a piece of a paperclip (not the shiny chrome ones, those are plated)to make a grounding buss. I cut a length off with a wirecutter and put a loop in one end. A small screw goes through the loop to screw into the side of the cavity. The linear length of the remaining part of the paperclip then provides a place to solder all the ground wires, one after another, along the length. No twisting of wires together, no soldering multiple connections to the same point. Once I'm done soldering, I bend the grounding buss so it sits flush along the side of the cavity, then cover it with a layer of electrical tape to avoid any inadvertent contact once I button up the cavity.
The point is, there is no one right or wrong way to do this. You can daisy-chain connections to the back of pots as Billy suggests, the pots with the solder backing is interesting as it solves the problem that led me to stop soldering to the backs of pots in the first place. Maybe I'll try those pots in the future; for now, I have a bunch of Bourns pots I would need to use up.
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Post by unreg on May 6, 2020 15:37:05 GMT -5
Thank you so much newey! Your shared wisdom has brought me out from under one of my thinking-cages! I’m going to try your paper clip grounding buss idea - that will allow me to use a different closer wall and so I can just cut the tinned jumble and strip the wires again. The shop said they knew the washer I was describing, but they didn’t have anymore due to the pandemic shutting down parts distribution. (They might have the solder lug washer in a week from now.) Got a roll of electrical tape today. |
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Post by newey on May 6, 2020 15:52:21 GMT -5
I do run some sandpaper along the piece of clip to help with solder adhesion.
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Post by unreg on May 7, 2020 23:21:14 GMT -5
I do run some sandpaper along the piece of clip to help with solder adhesion. After reading this article it seems that paper clips are usually made out of galvanized steel. Galvanized steel is a mixture of zinc and steel... to prevent the steel from rusting. 1.) If I sand the paperclip, does that remove some of the zinc layer AND is it more likely to rust? But, if the sanded part is covered with solder, that would fix that potential problem right? Does zinc prevent soldering? 2.) After failing to find a great picture of a usable paperclip for soldering, I tested a newly sanded paperclip for resistance and I received an uninterrupted beep and a solid 0 reading from my multimeter. Does that mean that the paperclip isn’t covered with chrome? —- Sorry for these off-topic questions; I just don’t want to start soldering to the wrong material again. |
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Post by unreg on May 8, 2020 15:05:58 GMT -5
I do run some sandpaper along the piece of clip to help with solder adhesion. After reading this article it seems that paper clips are usually made out of galvanized steel. Galvanized steel is a mixture of zinc and steel... to prevent the steel from rusting. 1.) If I sand the paperclip, does that remove some of the zinc layer AND is it more likely to rust? From what I’ve read, yes. But, rust only happens when there is moisture in the air... unless I go and try to play under water. But, if the sanded part is covered with solder, that would fix that potential problem right? I going to answer yes. Does zinc prevent soldering? ? edit: I’m going to say, “No,” bc weldguru.com/soldering says,END-EDIT 2.) After failing to find a great picture of a usable paperclip for soldering, I tested a newly sanded paperclip for resistance and I received an uninterrupted beep and a solid 0 reading from my multimeter. Does that mean that the paperclip isn’t covered with chrome? From what I’ve read: Yes, bc chrome is a poor conductor of electricity. |
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Post by newey on May 9, 2020 10:09:05 GMT -5
The ones I used are a dull gray metal, not chrome plated. They are the type with little grooves to keep papers from slipping out. I had a big box in my office, don't recall the brand.
My point was not to get you to use a paperclip, but just to illustrate that there are any number of ways to do this. Don't over-think this.
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I just wanted billy to see this question.
Chrome has a blue-ish tint in white light, while nickel has a yellow-ish tint...