HELP! Rio Grande Punchbox and Crunchbox combo

[edgemeister]

Hi guys... my first post here....

I've just installed a rio grande punchbox and crunchbox into an ibanex of mine...

the ibanez used to be 2 humbuckers also but had a 5 way switch to have a few other fun configurations...

I was wondering if someone could provide me with something similar for use with these new pickups...

If not could you please advise me on how to wire it so that the configurations can be switched:

Neck
Neck
Both
Bridge
Bridge

Any help would b appreciated...

Thanks

John

[JohnH]

John Welcome to GN2. In here, you'll find a new way to rewire your guitar every day!

Those new pups - are they humbuckers or singles? - perhaps you could point to a link for them. If Hbs, how many wires do they each have? If they have four wires, ie one to each end of each coil, then there are heaps of options.

John

[edgemeister]

hi.. thanks for replying...

yes, there are 4 wires...

here is the suggested wiring diagram from the rio grande site... it was also printed on an instruction sheet within the box when I bought them.

www.riograndepickups.com/hum_4con.htm


thanks again...

john

[fobits]

Hi John, welcome aboard. There is no shortage of advise about wiring guitars here

here is the suggested wiring diagram from the rio grande site...

That looks like a very basic humbucker setup with a three-way switch. With a 5-way selector, you could do more.

Seymour Duncan has a good selection of wiring diagrams for humbucking pickups with different types of controls, and they even use the same color-coding of the leads:
www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics.shtml

If you use the Rio Grande drawing, note that the top lug on each volume pot (as shown) and the bottom ones on the tone pots are grounded to the body of the pot. They do show it, sort of, but you have to look closely to see it.

It would be better, with any design, to bring all of the grounds together in one place. That avoids the dreaded "ground loops", which can inject a bit of noise even into humbuckers.

[JohnH]

OK - lots of choices then. What would you like to be able to do? With a five way switch, you could get some variations in the intermediate positions. One of the smartest diagrams on this site, for two Hbs and a 5 way is unklmickeys 'BIg Ugly'
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1139268111

This needsa a special 5-way, known as a super switch - take a look at that to see some possibilities.

Or if not - your N, N, both, B, B option would be easy.

Theres an issue with that riogrande diagram - to do with grounding. Best advice is to ground only to a single point, so;

Note to other electronics nerds in here:

What do we think of the grounding shown on the riogrande wiring diagram? seems like the cavity shield is connected at each pot to the signal ground - danger of induced hum?

cheers

John

John

[UnklMickey]

johnh said:

...Theres an issue with that riogrande diagram - to do with grounding. Best advice is to ground only to a single point, so;

Note to other electronics nerds in here:

What do we think of the grounding shown on the riogrande wiring diagram? seems like the cavity shield is connected at each pot to the signal ground - danger of induced hum?...

John, since you're in the upper eschelon, i'll consider the use of "nerd" as being self-depricating familiarity.



i think the layout is even more heinous than you describe.

the way it's drawn, it is dependent on a metal pickguard or cavity shield to even work at all.


there are NO wire connections,

between the lows of the volume pots and the ground of the output jack / selector frame.

in such a layout, if there is a poor connection, due to a loose mounting nut,

the signal will see tons of hum and noise injected by the shielding.


this goes way beyond the minor ground loop issues with redundancy in the grounding and shielding,

of a conventional layout without star-ground.


i hope, it's just an oversight on their part,

and the drawing is just incomplete,

assuming that the users will connect all the pot cases and selector frame together with wires.

that would make it a design that "could be better".

otherwise, it's an "accident waiting to happen". (no IMHO on that one either!)



unk

[JohnH]

All true Unk - I knew you'd like that one!

Edgemeister - dont worry about the pickups - just because we dont like their diagram doesnt mean those pups cant be wired up properly

John

[edgemeister]

Hi...

I tried to follow Fobits advice and use the wiring diagrams form the seymore duncan website however the 5 way switch is an ibanez one and looks a little different...

What I did was follow the instructions from this page:

www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2001&w=RG320

However, the wire colours are different and so I assumed the blue wire on the diagram was the green wire on the pickups I have...

The guitar sounds ok, but it would be good if someone could verify that somehtings wired in parrallel when it should be serial or something as a result of mixing up the wire combinations...

Thanks


John

[sumgai]

edgy,

Hi, it's time I chimed in here, but first, I'd like to reiterate to our forums! As John said at the beginning, there is a whale of a lot of options in how to wire your ax within these pages, so be prepared to spend some time on the work bench!

In reading your most recent post, it looks like you have a Strat-style blade switch in your rig, instead of the usual Gibson-style 3-way toggle. That being the case (you don't have to drill any holes or anything), you certainly should inspect unklmickey's Big Ugly, it's ripe for what you want to do. But don't stop there, thinking that you needn't do any more. Cast around, and if something catches your fancy, then ask about it. (You've been doing that already, so I've no worries about you on that account.

In your musings about colored wires, you said that you swapped 'green' for 'blue' at one point. Did you do that with sure knowledge, or did you just make a WAG, and hope for the best? Not that the second plan isn't a good one, but sometimes you can save heartache and frustration by going to the source, and getting the color codes down on paper right in front of you, before you dig in with your soldering iron. But far be it from me to stifle inspiration! Who knows, you may stumble onto something that the rest of us have dismissed out of hand without ever thinking about it. A good wake up call is nice, once in awhile!

My opinions on the Rio Grande diagram have already been elucidated by others, I can't improve on what they said. The Ibanez scheme is "interesting". I personally think it's too limiting, but you may find otherwise.

But the real corker here is, we don't know Rio Grande's color scheme, nor do we really know Ibanez's either. The close-up here is, one of them may connect two wires to the "North" coil (say, the one closest to the neck), and use "Green & Black". The other maker may have used those two colors for connecting the "South" coil. See our dilemma? You'll need to provide us with an appropriate conversion chart in order for us to follow Ibanez's diagram, wire for wire, and check out what your results "should" have been.

The summary here is, we can help you, but we need a bit more information first. Can you get your hands on those color code charts?


sumgai

[edgemeister]

Hi...
Thanks for continuing to help me, I really appreciate it...

I have emailed Rio Grande regarding the colour codes in reference to which coils the wires affect and am awaiting a reply...

All I know so far from the rio grande forums is:

Green & Sheild are grounded to the back of the pot.
Red & White are soldered together.
The Black wire is the hot.

But I guess this for your standard 'use the whole pickup' configuration.

I'll get back to you when i fiind out more...

Thanks again...

John

[fobits]

Hi edgemeister,

Since I'm the one that gave you the Seymour Duncan link, I've been looking around for some information to help you. So far without much luck.

If you'll excuse me for a moment...

sumgai,

But the real corker here is, we don't know Rio Grande's color scheme, nor do we really know Ibanez's either

Actually, Rio Grande explains their colors clearly. It's the same as Seymour Duncan. Here's the link again for convenience:
www.riograndepickups.com/hum_4con.htm

It's the big boys at Ibanez who make life difficult. They sell about ten jillion different models with goodness knows how many different pickups, and their diagrams aren't very helpful.

This is the one that edgemeister used:
www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2001&w=RG320

The bridge pickup is like this:

blue + shielding -> ground
white & black joined
red -> output

That seems clear enough, but the neck pickup is the other way around. There the red is grounded and the others go to the switch.

If anybody knows how their switch works, there are lots of people here who could whip up a diagram of how to get these combinations, but they don't explain that either.

[JohnH]

I havnt traced it all through, but it looks to me like that Ibanez switch is electrically the same as a standard Strat style 5 way (which is really just a 3-way with extra bridged positions), although it is laid out differently to some, with 8 lugs.

The diagram also shows what coils are intended, being, from 1 to 5:

Neck - both coils in series
Neck - both coils in parallel
Both pickups in parallel (each pup has its own coils in series - ie a normal central position setting)
One coil from each pup - inner coils
Bridge - both coils in series

If you have wired this up. you can test this. to see if the right coils are getting switched on in each position. Just plug in the guitar and gently tap a pole piece on each of the four coils at each of the 5 switch settings, using the tip of a screwdriver. If you get a consistent loud click, then that coil is connected. No click or small click means it is not.

If it passes that, and matches the diagram,the only other test is on the sounds when you play. They should all sound full, being in phase, and not thin, which indicates out of phase. A pass there and it proves its all working fine.

If not - the next step would involve using a meter.

BTW If Im right that it is like a standard Strat switch, then it is an interesting diagram. I might try to figure it out into a schematic.

cheers

John

[sumgai]

Frank,

What you said is correct, as far as it went. But the problem is, those two diagrams you linked don't actually show which wire goes to which coil, nor which polarity. That's what I was asking for.

Granted, JohnH's test will be good enough for edge's needs, but that doesn't preclude a possible total reversal from what the wiring should be. That's why I'm asking for the full details.

And I agree with you, Ibanez sure looks like it merely swapped the hot and ground between the two pickups, didn't it though? Makes me scratch my head, you can be sure of that.


sumgai