.

[JohnH]

I dont have such clips. But it depends what we all mean by HOOP wiring, there are series and parallel versions, and different components used, and some within one pickup and those between two pickups.

If you have an HH guitar, and are seeking some not entirely thin out of phase sounds, I could make some clips of my LP. It has a simple phase switch but with the twin volumes and tones plus coil cuts, you can adjust the balance so its not too cancelled. Somewhere in there would be a Peter Green tone, minus his fingers of course.

[sumgai]

Nov 19, 2020 5:09:39 GMT -5 guitarnerdswe said:

Hi! Yeah, I basically mean 2 humbuckers in parallel and out phase, but using a cap or cap+resistors to filter out the lows of one of the pickups.

In the great majority of cases, you actually filter out the highs of the Neck pickup, and allow the remaining lows/mids to augment the Bridge by adding "body". Certainly you can work it the other way around, but that kind of defeats the purpose of the Neck being a softer, not quite so strident tonality.

HTH





sumgai

[newey]

Yeah, no samples of HOOP that I know of. A while back, ashcatlt posted in "Sound Samples" some samples of what we have called the "Broadbucker" sound- which is 2 HB coils with one coil partially bypassed by a cap. But in that case, the 2 coils are not OOP.

[reTrEaD]

Nov 19, 2020 5:09:39 GMT -5 guitarnerdswe said:

Hi! Yeah, I basically mean 2 humbuckers in parallel and out phase, but using a cap or cap+resistors to filter out the lows of one of the pickups.

Yes, I believe that will yield some usable results. Personally, I'd gravitate toward using the cap in series with Bridge. The fundamental always maintains a consistent phase relationship but the location of the pickups will determine if specific harmonics are in-phase, out of phase, or have a phase relationship that's somewhere in between.

To retain a strong bottom end but enjoy the comb-filtering of harmonics afforded by having one of the pickups out of phase, the size series cap is of greatest interest. But placing a resistor (or pot) either in parallel with the cap or in series with it, will also change the result.

I don't recall any sound clips being posted, but I would still encourage you to experiment with this. I believe it may yield some tasty fruit. Remember that when the pickups are in parallel out-of-phase, the smaller the cap, the less of the out-of-phase fundamental will be present. But this is still frequency-dependent. So notes with higher fundamental frequencies will have some of their fundamental being cancelled.

[reTrEaD]

Nov 20, 2020 8:11:04 GMT -5 guitarnerdswe said:

Actually, when I've seen resistor being used, they have been between connected to the hot wire from each pickup. So cap to ground from one pickup, and then 2 separate resistors (same value) in the patch of each of the pickups hot signal path. I think it was done to decouple the pickups a bit. I don't quite know why that would be needed though.

In a configuration like that, the decoupling resistors would be necessary so cap directly in parallel with one pickup isn't also directly in parallel with the other pickup.

But that arrangement seems particularly ugly, imho.

[reTrEaD]

Nov 20, 2020 11:28:50 GMT -5 guitarnerdswe said:

The cap is apparently not it parallel with any of the pickups, but in series with the ground for the pickup that has it's + and - flipped. The resistors are at the other end of the signal flow.

In that case, it's not ugly. I'd probably use a smaller cap to preserve more of the fundamental of the higher notes but that's just a personal preference. This is just the parallel half-out-of-phase configuration but with decoupling resistors added.

Not sure how important the decoupling resistors are in this case. *shrug*

[sumgai]

I'm with reTrEaD on this one - the so-called decoupling resistors are adding no value at all.  Where a series cap-and-inductor is in parallel with another inductor, the cap will directly affect only the associated inductor.  Of  course there will be an overall effect on the outgoing tone, but that's why we're doing this in the first place!

As to the cap's value, I'd proffer that one should be experimenting with this before making a final choice.  The inductance value of a pickup varies widely across the spectrum of available products, and a "one value is good for all pickups" mindset is not what I'd call a good business case.   But then again, this is the NutzHouse, so I'm probably preaching to the choir.

HTH




sumgai

[JohnH]

So, HOOP here is to be a parallel combo of two humbuckers out of phase, one being with a cap in series with it.

Given I have a phase switch on my LP, I think I can lash that one up. Ill remove the back panel and clip a cap from one pickups output to the jack, and then select the other pickup.

Ill try to make a sound clip to find out what it does. I don't think Ive ever heard it before either!.

[JohnH]

I started messing around with this yesterday and managed to make it work on my LP. Im trying to home in on what kind of cap value is in the best ballpark range to get the most distinctive effect. Ive been trying 3.3nF up to 20 nF. So far, they make a noticeable but fairly small change to the voice of the pickups and not much to the fundamental note, ie its staying full like a single pickup or in-phase combo, even though the wiring is OOP. My full parallel OOP setting is much thinner, so Ill try larger caps to try to approach that and then step back and try the recordings.

So far I haven't heard a compelling tone that id really need to have if it was for myself. The LP wiring with two volumes two tones and series OOP gets a far wider range of different thinner and thicker OOP sounds, without this HOOP option.

[JohnH]

Ok, I have something.....

voca.ro/1o8VLmKYHyIZ

Its my LP, with PAF buckers and theres four short riff segments:

1. Full parallel combo, no HOOP
2. HOOP, with neck pickup fed through a series cap of 0.022uF
3. HOOP, neck pickup fed through a cap of 0.047uF
4. Full parallel out of phase, no HOOP

Each one gets a bit thinner than the one before. What do you think? Its best not to focus on the actually tones, but rather the differences in the tones

Recording is miced off my Marshall VM, low dynamic range, volume is high but through my attenuator.

[JohnH]

Great! It worked out to be quite interesting. I had been expecting that a smaller cap would be where the action was, but it turned out to be around the range of the usual tone capacitors on guitars. It would definitely vary according to your own rig and preferences though.

I put the caps between pickup and hot, but according to good 'bed-rock' science, it cant make any difference if its on the ground side instead. So it can be picked for other reasons such as wiring and switching convenience.

Out of those tones in the clip, I liked the 0.022 cap best. When I use an OOP tone, its usually a series wiring, sometimes with neck cut back to a single with bridge humbucker. But for myself, Ill be more likely to just use the Bridge humbucker to cut through.

[JohnH]

I had the cap in series with the neck pickup

[Jaga]

Nov 21, 2020 20:00:23 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Ok, I have something.....

voca.ro/1o8VLmKYHyIZ

Its my LP, with PAF buckers and theres four short riff segments:

1. Full parallel combo, no HOOP
2. HOOP, with neck pickup fed through a series cap of 0.022uF
3. HOOP, neck pickup fed through a cap of 0.047uF
4. Full parallel out of phase, no HOOP

Thanks for the clip. Great example explaining what's that HOOP.