Ibanez RG3120 wiring difficulty

[frets]

Hi Guys,
Guess what?  Back with another problem!!  Yay!!

Im modding this RG3120 harness.  The guy cut the switch out and sent it to me.  I am having a wicked time getting this harness to work.  I’ve gone through three different configurations and can not get it to function properly.  The closest I’ve got is the diagram below.

But, I’m getting no Coil Split in position 4 - zilch - completely dead.  I have checked and rechecked the harness many times and inspected all pads for any stray wires, etc.  Nothing.  I am using Seymour Duncan’s as my testers and have crosswalked them to DiMarzio’s wire colors.

Do any of you see why the coil split is not functioning given this diagram?

As always, you know I appreciate it.

- Cindi😸

[newey]

frets-

Can you enlarge that diagram just a bit? I don't have time to check it at the moment (at work) but it's a bit too small for my eyes. Anyway, the Ibanez OTAX switch is a bit of an oddball, first thing is to be sure you have the switch lugs correctly assigned. Here's ChrisK's diagram of that switch:




Note the order of the lugs, right to left- which also corresponds front to back

[unreg]

Aug 23, 2022 14:31:10 GMT -5 newey said:

frets-

Can you enlarge that diagram just a bit? I don't have time to check it at the moment (at work) but it's a bit too small for my eyes.

newey sir, if you use a touch screen, a cell phone is a good idea, and press two of your fingers, make sure they’re close together, onto the image on the screen, and then spread your fingers apart, the screen will zoom in to enlarge the picture.

To zoom out, just move your fingers, touching the screen, closer together.


I’m recommending this bc frets’ image is low resolution… so enlarging it will produce a blurry image (oh, sigh, it’s probably been reduced to 600 pixel width; so it has to be low resolution here) so, might as well just zoom in yourself-that’s if you are using a device with a touch screen.

[frets]

Newey,
I don’t have anything that can enlarge it, I don’t know how to do that on a pic I’ve downloaded. I will search to see how to do it and post again.

[unreg]

frets, if you plan on replying with an enlarged pic, I’d split the diagram in half… and then enlarge both halves to 600 pixel width. That, OR, reduce both halves to 600 pixel width, if both halves are each more than 600 pixels wide.

It’s pointless to enlarge and then reduce, that just causes your pic to become even more blurry, except (not pointless) if you crop parts of the picture away… but your diagram does not show much area that can be cropped.


[EDIT]It seems now that it would be wiser to just provide newey with the url of your actual diagram. That way the pic doesn’t have to be reduced to 600 width and it doesn’t have to be divided into 2 images as I previously wrote. newey and anyone else can just click your provided link to download the pic and then view it themselves on another screen besides this browser window. Then, it would be extremely beneficial to zoom in using a touch screen bc the pic’s resolution is untouched.[/EDIT]

[reTrEaD]

Aug 23, 2022 13:05:59 GMT -5 frets said:

I am using Seymour Duncan’s as my testers and have crosswalked them to DiMarzio’s wire colors.

k, koo
That would have been my first question, but it seems you have that part sussed.

The other thing you'll want to be keenly aware of is how the switch is being displayed in that diagram. It's as if they sawed the switch in half and butterflied it open. So the six terminals on the left-most part of the diagram are physically closest to the six terminals on the right-most part of the switch. Did I say that clearly enough to make sense to you?

Since the diagram came from Ibanez, we can expect it to function as-advertised if you follow their wiring accurately. If/whan you confirm that you have it wired according to the diagram, the next step would be to check the switch itself and insure the internal connections are being made to the appropriate poles and throws in each of the five positions, with no wires connected to the switch.

[frets]

Newey😺😺😺

I did my best to blow it up.  I hope it works. This has been really frustrating, I’ve wired it twice according to two diagrams and really have thoroughly checked the wiring.  Both wirings failed.  I sure hope you can see something because looking at the switch diagram you sent and looking back at this diagram, the wiring looks correct.


Thanks again.

[frets]

Newey,
Forget it.
I just wired it up with a completely different diagram. Same problem, no coil splits in position 4. Just like the first wiring, everything else works.

So I have to hypothesize that the switch is bad. Which torques me off because they cost $40 and since the customer cut it out of the harness and sent it to me, I have no idea if it was bad before I worked on it (although I do see the possibility that I burned it out, but unlikely).

Bottom line, VLX91 switches on Ibanez guitars are a nightmare to work on. Far worse than other Megaswitches. It’s just the way it’s configured, soldering to it is really tough. Whine😸

[newey]

Aug 23, 2022 19:10:18 GMT -5 frets said:

So I have to hypothesize that the switch is bad.

No need to hypothesize, test that Sun over beach . . .

Not saying your hypothesis is wrong, necessarily, but it's easily checked. As ChrisK would have said, "empirical is".

The bigger diagram does help, thank you. I didn't spot any obvious issues at Position 4. You said you're getting nothing at position 4, the fact that the neck and bridge pickups operate at that position via separate poles of the switch does point to a switch issue. For it to be a wiring error, it can't just be one bad connection, there would need to be a few- unlikely scenario.

[frets]

I tested it, it’s the switch. $65 to Poland for a new one. Could not find one in the States. Customer says the switch was good when he cut it out. Ouch🙀

[cynical1]

I found this one on Reverb. No Customs paperwork involved...

[reTrEaD]

Here's another possibility:

www.drumsetc.com/content/ibanez-guitar-pickup-selector-3ps1vlx91

[frets]

Thanks Cynical and Retread,

I’m going to buy another to keep on hand.

It’s interesting that of all the guitars I work on, Ibanez is not a frequent flyer. I wonder why that is? I wonder why guys don’t want to fix, upgrade or mod their Ibanez guitars at the same frequency of Strats, Tele’s and Les Paul’s? Just because they’re cheaper?

This was on an RG3120 and this is (I think) the third one I’ve worked on in two years.

[unreg]

Aug 25, 2022 14:02:53 GMT -5 frets said:

Just because they’re cheaper?

That makes perfect sense.

Say you have a large pile of legos that you want to store. So, you grab a cardboard box, since it’s cheaper. You box them up well; the world is sunny. Then, you scrape the box against a wall and a pice of one of its lower corners breaks off. Now, your box is useless.

Many would discard the cardboard box and use another one. A few would tape the hole.


Say you chose to store your legos in a nice wooden box. And one day you accidentally nick a corner of it off with misguided bump into your active saw table.

A good majority would probably place a cardboard box inside the nice wooden one so that their investment could still be used.



Note: Be more careful around your active saw table.

[newey]

Aug 25, 2022 14:02:53 GMT -5 frets said:

It’s interesting that of all the guitars I work on, Ibanez is not a frequent flyer. I wonder why that is? I wonder why guys don’t want to fix, upgrade or mod their Ibanez guitars at the same frequency of Strats, Tele’s and Les Paul’s? Just because they’re cheaper?

Different demographics would be my guess. Ibby mostly caters to the shredder crowd (although they do make some nice semi-hollow bodies). I'd venture to guess that the typical customer is in his/her teens, just starting to play, has no thought of modifications. If they give up on the Ibanez, end of story; if they keep playing they eventually "graduate" to a better-quality axe, an LP or Strat, whetever. Then after some time with that, they begin to think about modifying it, maybe by the time they're in their 30s or so.

I don't know if you track the ages of your customers, but I'm guessing they skew older.

[sumgai]

Aug 27, 2022 12:10:29 GMT -5 newey said:

.... if they keep playing they eventually "graduate" to a better-quality axe, an LP or Strat, whetever. [sic]

Good to know that Steve Vai has not yet entered the hallowed halls of Guitar Gawd-dom. I was starting to fear that his artist-modeled JEM had gone to his head.

[frets]

I really like Ibanez guitars. I think overall their quality is pretty darn good for their price point. I own two myself. And my modified S521 is one of my favorite guitars. But I think you’re right, most guys believe Fender and Gibson are a higher level of guitar (which I’d argue overall, they are not - a controversial opinion😺). I don’t think one can evaluate one of the big 5 guitar companies in terms of an overall comparison, but you can at model to model at the same price point.

One thing that just escapes me is the level of harness materials on the more known models. You’d think they’d use better parts.

[newey]

I was not denigrating Mr. Vai, nor Ibanez guitars in general. I own an early '90s 470S, and it's a pretty guitar with a transparent cherry stain finish. It has a super-skinny fast neck and a basically flat fretboard, ultra thin body, weighs next to nothing. It has a pretty unique sound (it's wired like frets' example) but I don't play it much. My old email addy was "notashredder@. . . ." if that's any clue.

And one can certainly spend a lot of money for the signature models, they sell a full line. I know cynical1 is a fan of their 3/4 neck basses, he has one, I think they call it the "Mikrobass". The neck on my bass is warped, no surprise, it was an Ebay special I bought to mod. I keep eyeing that model bass in the local shop, seems like a bargain at around $230. If only it wasn't black . . . (sighs).

[frets]

Newey,
I knew you weren’t ragging on Ibanez😸. The Steve Vai HSH model is awesome. I have played one, really nice guitar.

The Mikro Bass is so much fun to play. I have seen it in red. Like you, I want one. Hard to find in red though - used. I have one of the Mikro guitars and they are very fun to play as well.

[reTrEaD]

Aug 25, 2022 14:02:53 GMT -5 frets said:

I’m going to buy another to keep on hand.

Does the VLX-91 have exactly the same spacing between mounting screws as a Superswitch? If so, you could use a less expensive switch as a replacement.

[frets]

Retread,
Yes it does, and I thought about doing it but ultimately decided against it. I felt like I needed to give the customer back what he had in the guitar. I feel like it’s good to have another on hand, have all options available. It says it’s proprietary in terms of the actual switching pattern;e.g., slug and screw coil splits in position 4. I question that.

It’s a well made switch, I have no idea why such a switch constructed like it would fail. Made by OTAX.

[cynical1]

Aug 27, 2022 18:32:42 GMT -5 frets said:

...The Mikro Bass is so much fun to play. I have seen it in red. Like you, I want one.

eBay. I have never paid more than $50.00 USD for a used one.

In total, I have one of the Mikro guitars and two of the basses. The second bass is going to become a 5 string piccolo bass A-F...but that's in progress. One thing I love about the Mikro line is that as my hands and fingers age it doesn't hurt as much to play them. Sure, it looks like you're playing your kid's guitar, but it does put some of the fun back in playing, too...

The bass newey mentioned went through the full spa treatment.  Frets leveled and dressed (I actually like the smaller frets on this bass), Tusq nut, all electronics replaced, tuners replaced with Gotoh, bridge tossed in a cornfield and replaced with a Schaller 3D-4, Jazz bridge pickup to a stacked DiMarzio (switched for local series\parallel) and the neck pickup swapped to an old original Bill Lawrence P-Bass pickup.  I will say, the old Ibanez pickups I removed made kickass refrigerator magnets...

IMHO, Ibanez and Yamaha make the best platforms to modify. They both offer a clean and tight fit on their CNC work and it's a safe bet that necks and bodies of different guitars will accommodate each other if procured separately. Yamaha typically has better fretwork on their mid to low price lines...read as every Mikro I have all needed fretwork. Once cleaned up and adjusted the neck stays where you put it, from my experience.

On both, it's almost a requirement to gut the electronics. The fretwork is a crap shoot on Ibanez's mid to low price instruments...typically heavy on the crap side... I have always preferred Yamaha to Ibanez for myself, but they've never had any resale value by comparison.

I have no complaints with either in their top line instruments. I would argue that Yamaha's and Ibanez's top of line instruments put Fender and Gibson to shame... I'm sure I'll catch some flak on that one, but fix a few dozen of each and come back to me again...

I think the difference is becoming mute, though, as the industry as a whole is tanking. Why? 100 years ago you couldn't swing a dead cat in the house without hitting a piano. Now, the industry is coughing up blood...if it still possesses a mortal coil that throws a shadow... Times change and music changes. Why devote years to mastering an instrument when your phone has a app for it?

HTC1

[Deleted]

Using a 4P5T lever switch
+North Neck Always to Output
-South Bridge ALways to Ground

A0) OUT, A1) N/C, A2) +M, A3) +B, A4) +M, A5) +B
B0) -M, B1) GND, B2) GND, B3) GND, B4) +B, B5) N/C
C0) -N, C1) +M, C2) GND, C3) +M, C4) N/C, C5) N/C
D0) GND, D1) -M, D2) -M, D3) -M, D4) XX, D5) N/C

A0) OUT, A1) N/C, A2) +M, A3) N/C, A4) +M, A5) N/C
B0) +B, B1) N/C, B2) N/C, B3) OUT, B4) -M, B5) OUT
C0) -N, C1) +M, C2) GND, C3) +M, C4) N/C, C5) N/C
D0) GND, D1) -M, D2) -M, D3) -M, D4) XX, D5) N/C

+Neck North to Output
-Neck North Called -N
+Neck South Called +M
-Neck South Called -M

+Bridge North Called +B
-Bridge North and +Bridge South Linked called XX
+Bridge South and -Bridge North Linked called XX
-Bridge South Ground

1)NNxNS, 2)NN+NS, 3)[NNxNS]+[BNxBS], 4)NSxBN, 5)BNxBS

A0)GND, A1) -M, A2) -M, A3) -M, A4) XX, A5) N/C
B0)OUT, B1) N/C, B2) +M, B3) +B, B4) +M, B5) +B
C0) D0, C1) -N, C2) -N, C3) -N, C4) -M, C5) N/C
D0) C0, D1) +M, D2) GND, D3) +M, D4) +B, D5) N/C


Other than that i would have to make a 3P5T Lever Switch (what i've not had much luck as it goes)
A0) GND, A1) -M , A2) -N&-M, A3) -M , A4) XX , A5) N/C
B0) OUT, B1) +N , B1) +N&+M, B3) +N&+B, B4) +M , B5) +B
C0) ---, C1) -N&+M, C2) N/C , C3) -N&+M, C4) -M&+B, C5) N/C

------------------------

if you dont mind the Phasing while in Par
A0)OUT, A1) +N, A2) +N, A3) +N, A4) ZZ, A5) +B
B0)GND, B1) -N, B2) ZZ, B3) -N, B4, XX, B5) N/C
C0) D0, C1) +B, C2) -N, C3) +B, B4) -N, C5) N/C
D0) C0, D1) GND, D2) OUT, D3) OUT, D4) +B, D5) N/C

+Neck North +N
-Neck North Linked to +Neck South and Called ZZ
+Neck South Linked to -Neck North and Called ZZ
-Neck South -N

+Bridge North +B
-Bridge North Linked to +Bridge South and Called XX
+Bridge South Linked to -Bridge North and Called XX
-Bridge South -B and GROUNDED