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Post by gckelloch on Mar 14, 2023 18:44:00 GMT -5
I think I'm going with option #2, the MannMade FatBack bridge. Hope it's worth the price! Edit: Looks like links on this site are getting wrapped with viglink. Is that helping to keep this place running, or did the site get hacked at some point? Zinc is added to pot metal. That would explain the weight for the mass. I dunno, $200 for a hunk of Brass with Brass saddles and no top load option? This Korean made $33 one looks to be virtually the same thing: reverb.com/item/42212348-bn-106-b-hardtail-fixed-guitar-bridge-hipshot-style-string-through-body-52-5mm-spacing1.5mm thinner total string spacing, but I doubt you'd notice, and it will align better over the PAF pole screws. Again, you can get some Stainless Steel saddles for the strings you might want more definition from. Say, if you haven't already ordered the guitar body, you might consider the place from which I just ordered a Black Walnut core w/Roasted-Poplar wings S-type hardtail this morning. His prices are very good, and the routing and neck screw holes for all the body pics look super accurate-- no doubt all CNC'd. I'm going to sand stain and Tru-Oil it myself: www.ebay.com/str/taurowoodworksGuitar players seem to think a one or two-piece body has better sustain or something, but I think only the damping properties of the center-line wood matter. I choose the Walnut center for warmth and sustain, and the Roasted-Poplar wings for weight relief and looks. I assume it will be under $150.
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Post by geo on Mar 15, 2023 9:20:43 GMT -5
That looks to be a knockoff of the Hipshot Hardtail in the first link. I was torn between the two, but I think the MannMade has more mass to it. Not sure it's got $100 more mass, but both the saddles and frame seem to have less metal milled off. Say, if you haven't already ordered the guitar body, you might consider the place from which I just ordered a Black Walnut core w/Roasted-Poplar wings S-type hardtail this morning. His prices are very good, and the routing and neck screw holes for all the body pics look super accurate-- no doubt all CNC'd. I'm going to sand stain and Tru-Oil it myself: www.ebay.com/str/taurowoodworksGuitar players seem to think a one or two-piece body has better sustain or something, but I think only the damping properties of the center-line wood matter. I choose the Walnut center for warmth and sustain, and the Roasted-Poplar wings for weight relief and looks. I assume it will be under $150. I'm inclined to agree with you that it's about the center-line wood. I'm doing everything I can to warm the tone up to compensate for the maple neck, but my biggest concern is the different speeds of sound between the maple and mahogany, and how that will affect tone, volume, and sustain. At a junction between two different materials, you get different amounts of reflection vs transmission for waves depending on how fast sound moves in each material. Too much transmission to the body means you'll be very loud but bleed your sound off quickly. Too little creates a 180-degree phase shift in the reflected wave, and kills the sustain in the neck. Having the same wood in each solves that problem very elegantly. Much more costly though, and you essentially need a new guitar if it takes a header. Already got the body off Warmoth, I'm afraid, but I'll have to check out taurowoodworks for the future. Let me know how it turns out once it arrives!
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 15, 2023 15:09:32 GMT -5
That would be $167 more mass worth. More bridge mass won't necessarily make the guitar warmer sounding. It might do the opposite considering Mahogany absorbs more high-end than Brass, and there will technically be more vibration transfer to the body with less bridge mass. For me, the cost difference makes it a no-brainer, but whatever works for you. I'd seriously consider a much cheaper pickup set with roughly the same specs as well. Pickup prices can be ridiculous considering the profit margin. FI, these Toneriders are classic PAF spec range, and the A4 magnets will give them more punch and a warmer/fatter tone than A5 due to how the higher permeability draws the flux lines from the strings into the coil. The Guass is between A2 and A5. The slightly lower-than-average PAF inductance neck pickup will give it more clarity to compensate for the extra warmth...and they are ~1/3 the price of the SD's. They also have a Fender string spacing option that would better align the pole screws under your strings. Gibson actually used A4 magnets in the mid 60's. Those were the pickups PAF enthusiasts covet. I still think you should use one 500k and one 250k pot for all your settings. The 250k will have a more linear sweep. I'd use it for the tone pot. tonerider.com/product/alnico-iv-classics/The Toneriders and the Korean bridge will save you over $400, and you'll get a warmer tone. Guitar damping has to do with density and rigidity. Wood is too complex to accurately predict how it will damp, but straighter-grained woods like Mahogany are likely more consistent than swirly grains. The neck and body phase relationship likely depends more on the transverse than longitudinal wave propagation, and I don't think that really affects the string vibrations in a solid body guitar. So, it depends on the thickness as well as density and rigidity, but longitudinal vibrations will propagate somewhat erratically in a piece of wood anyway due to natural variances, A more rigid wood will generally decrease higher freq vibrations. Density matters only in as much as how much the mass resists vibration. String vibrations have to have enough energy to deform the wood fibers to some extent for damping to occur. Lightweight guitars can have just as much low-end sustain as heavy ones depending on the elastic modulus. FB wood makes a significant difference in high-end and transient damping. I assume you went with something like Indian RW for a Gibson-like response? A Maple FB can have a fat transient character as well if it doesn't have a thick lacquer over the frets. I think much more damping occurs via the neck to the body than via the body through a rigid dense Metal bridge, as are any of the bridges here. I'd choose the cheap Korean one, but try to confirm if it's all Brass or whatever. FI, it will be brighter/thinner if the saddles are Monel, but you can replace the saddles with Brass for ~$22 if that's the case. I bet it's all Brass. Pot metal "Zinc" damps even more than Brass. I was informed that the Roasted-Poplar stock is only 1-5/8" thick. I took several measurements, and it will work fine. The Pine body it will replace is just over 1-5/8" anyway. He quoted me $110+shipping. That's exceptional for a custom body with special woods.
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Post by geo on Mar 16, 2023 8:13:57 GMT -5
Sorry, I should clarify; the neck is a single-piece quartersawn maple neck. There's no separate fretboard.
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 16, 2023 15:27:44 GMT -5
Sorry, I should clarify; the neck is a single-piece quartersawn maple neck. There's no separate fretboard. Master luthier Ken Parker said the old single piece Fender Maple necks suffered fret sprout a lot. Perhaps quarter-sawn is more stable. Some say it has a brighter tone-- another reason for a 250k and 500k pot. Turning down Aa 500k tone pot a bit would do the same, but less linear. The truss rod type also matters. DA rods form a more rigid structure = more snappy. A thickly lacquered FB over the frets improves upper-mid "sparkle". I assume you didn't get that. Roasted-Maple is more resonant. That might reduce some midrange like Mahogany, but can also sound more sharp due to the hardened resins. Stainless frets are of course more zingy. You do know Warmoth doesn't do any fret leveling or dressing? It's not that hard to do yourself with a small investment in tools and a few hours work. You can also roll the FB edges with a foam sanding block. Do that b4 the fret polishing. There are videos on these things. I successfully added some needed fall-away to my baritone neck the first try ever with a cheap 8" block. I also leveled out the high frets with a crowning tool. That took forever. I should have used a long sanding block, but crowning 22 Stainless frets is a big task. I also reset a sprouted Stainless fret on my Wenge neck with a jeweler's hammer using the recommended technique. I was surprised it worked. I found this video comparing the Tonerider AC4 set to SD '59s. They should be very close in inductance. The main difference is the magnets. The SD's have a more strident attack. The SD's with the rough cut magnet might be more like the AC4's. I'd get the AC4's with your Maple neck.
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 3, 2023 0:12:19 GMT -5
Say, I read that you may not have to do any fretwork on a Warmoth neck. It of course depends on how low action you want. It may be fine as is, or you might just have a few high frets you can file with a crowning tool and polish if needed.
Warmoth also just released a video showing how to easily remove the finish over the frets on a Maple neck:
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Post by geo on Apr 12, 2023 8:22:41 GMT -5
The neck is custom; Warmoth wouldn't do a single-piece quartersawn Jaguar neck, unfortunately; just 2-piece necks. Luthier is borrowing a '63 Jaguar for reference, so I'm hoping it comes out very well!
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 12, 2023 14:53:35 GMT -5
That's a good thing. Apparently, single-piece necks have a habit of sprouting frets. I think it has to do with the wood grain spanning the entire length and width so that the effects of temp/humidity changes are reflected in the FB. If there's a thin slab of wood glued on top of the neck, it breaks the wood grain chain so it's much less likely to happen. There's no reason to think a single-piece neck will damp vibration any less than a laminated one. In fact, stacked 4-piece laminate body 70's era Les Pauls are some of the most long-sustaining Les Pauls around. The structure becomes that much more rigid. Rigid = sustain.
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Post by geo on Apr 21, 2023 15:44:27 GMT -5
Went with a single-piece quartersawn neck, so I hope it'll be stable enough to keep its frets! (The single-piece maple neck on my MIM Strat from 2010 or something seems to be in good shape, so I'm not too worried.)
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 21, 2023 17:36:12 GMT -5
Went with a single-piece quartersawn neck Quartersawn lumber will always be more dimensionally stable than plain or rift sawn. Quartersawn maple should be more than fine for the life of the neck...and the life of the player, too. I admit, I am a fan of multipiece necks, though. As long as they don't move, all is good. Pictures? HTC1
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Post by geo on Apr 21, 2023 21:15:12 GMT -5
Some sap spots, but I'm not worried if it's just aesthetic; neck is flame-roasted. (Body is a mahogany piece from Warmoth.)
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 22, 2023 10:02:57 GMT -5
Went with a single-piece quartersawn neck Quartersawn lumber will always be more dimensionally stable than plain or rift sawn. Quartersawn maple should be more than fine for the life of the neck...and the life of the player, too. I admit, I am a fan of multipiece necks, though. As long as they don't move, all is good. Pictures? HTC1 Never seen sap stains on Maple b4. Roasting should make it more stable as well. I'm just going by what Ken Parker said, but you sure that MIM Strat doesn't have a separate FB piece? That's pretty standard.
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 22, 2023 11:02:50 GMT -5
Do I see some slight discoloration on the back, too? Not that it's a problem in any way. It's typical. You don't see it that much because roasting is typically reserved for the most detailed or figured specimens. They are high dollar items and flaws don't fetch as good a price in the marketplace, typically...so they tend to land in the burn pile...
It's not uncommon for the wood to do this. You never know until you start working a piece of wood what secrets might be hiding within. As long as the frets stay in, shouldn't be an issue.
This was based off of a 60's Jaguar neck the luthier had access to, as I recall. That's more interesting than the roasting to me.
There will be sound samples down the road...right?
HTC1
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Post by geo on Apr 22, 2023 12:47:13 GMT -5
Quartersawn lumber will always be more dimensionally stable than plain or rift sawn. Quartersawn maple should be more than fine for the life of the neck...and the life of the player, too. I admit, I am a fan of multipiece necks, though. As long as they don't move, all is good. Pictures? HTC1 Never seen sap stains on Maple b4. Roasting should make it more stable as well. I'm just going by what Ken Parker said, but you sure that MIM Strat doesn't have a separate FB piece? That's pretty standard. Here's the neck on that MIM.
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 22, 2023 13:34:09 GMT -5
Looks like one piece alright. The lines on the FB make me think it's QS as well. Is it?
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Post by geo on Apr 22, 2023 16:47:53 GMT -5
No sir, not on a MIM strat; that'd be quite the treat! You might be seeing shadows from the strings or just a bad quality photo from me.
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 22, 2023 17:41:43 GMT -5
It's probably just string shadows. I have a Roasted-Maple neck on my baritone. The stainless frets and Pau Ferro FB add to the brightness, but it works well for the bari. It would also follow that RM absorbs more midrange via increased resonance, like a Mahogany neck. RM necks tend to sound that way, and maybe a tad brighter, in comparison videos. It's hard to tell what's really happening if it's not a DI recording. It may sound like it has more bass, but that could just be from how less midrange affects the gain stages.
Thought about rounding the edges on that MIM neck? It's pretty easy with a foam sanding block, but you should tape the fret ends to avoid having to repolish them. I discovered that the hard way on the Bari.
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Post by geo on Apr 22, 2023 23:07:11 GMT -5
Thought about rounding the edges on that MIM neck? It's pretty easy with a foam sanding block, but you should tape the fret ends to avoid having to repolish them. I discovered that the hard way on the Bari. Definitely not. If anything, my issue is that the neck is too narrow high up on the fretboard; not enough room for some good vibrato.
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 24, 2023 0:20:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I find the width of a few of my S-type necks to be a tad too thin as well. I really wish they had made the Tele Baritone neck wider like Warmoth does. I would have paid the extra for a Warmoth had I considered that.
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