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Post by geo on Mar 11, 2023 6:19:28 GMT -5
I need to pick out a bridge for a hardtail Jaguar with a maple neck and mahogany body. I'm inclined to go strat-style over a tune-o-matic. (I realize this guitar will probably sound more like a Les Paul than a Jaguar, but I want the strings low and tight, hence a strat style bridge.) Any recommendations? Was suggested Hipshot Hardtail Bridge, MannMade FatBack Hardtail Bridge, Babicz FCH6, and this lightweight Bobay piece. The Babicz design looks interesting, but I would think that it dampens vibrations in the string faster than a traditional saddle, because the cam would rock slightly with s-waves in the string. Anyone used one of these before? Any and all guidance greatly appreciated. |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 11, 2023 13:44:07 GMT -5
geo, I've no other alternatives to offer, my experience extends only to Hipshot - their products never fail to live up to their promise of high quality craftsmanship that lasts and lasts. But the next two on your list also have very good reputations for quality, so it's down to what tickles your fancy. As a bonus, the price points don't vary enough for that to enter into your decision, so.... looks, maybe? I dunno. HTH sumgai p.s. If you're going to retain the Jag pickups, then it certainly won't sound like a Les Paul!
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 11, 2023 15:33:18 GMT -5
I don't think it will sound like a Les Paul at all. All wood varies in density depending on the cut, but Mahogany is generally pretty close to Alder in damping character. Alder may have a tighter bass response-- not as "warm" sounding, but the Maple neck is the bigger tonal factor. The Babicz has a "Double locking system" to keep everything solid. The saddles have the most mass of the bunch. It likely will have the most sustain. It does say it's all Aluminum, but I suspect the Saddles cores are Steel. Looks like the best of the expensive ones. A higher mass bridge will minimize body damping. That may result in a more "metallic" sound, and possibly more low end depending on how the body damps, but you won't know until you try it. They also have a cheaper one with a Steel bridge plate and no side locks. Both bridges are string-through only: www.fullcontacthardware.com/fch-z-series-fixed-6-string-hardtail-bridgeI happen to all think those bridges are all overpriced. You can try different saddle alloys per string with any cheap Steel bridge. The Kaish Brass "upgrade" saddles I got for my Wilkinson bridge are actually pretty nice, and the oiled black saddle screws stay in place when set. The stock saddles are probably Monel. It's a very hard lightweight alloy substituted for Steel, and it sounds "thin". The Brass saddles have a warmer/fatter tone and better sustain. FI, you could order a set of Brass and a set of Stainless Steel saddles with a cheap Wilk bridge and use the Brass for strings you want to warm the tone on. Total cost would be ~$60, although it won't look as fancy as those expensive bridges. Just make sure you get the right saddle spacing size for the bridge plate you get. I ended up getting a top-load option bridge with two screws in the front as well as the three in the middle because I thought it would improve low-end. Locking the saddles may improve sustain, but I doubt it makes any difference if they are held down with enough force. The top-load option is useful if you want a fatter tone on the plain strings. Break angle matters a lot to string tone. |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 11, 2023 17:03:49 GMT -5
I can't speak for their guitar bridges, but the Babicz bass bridges are nice. It's a big chunk of metal, but not obscenely so. As sumgai says, Hipshot never disappoints. My personal favorite is the Schaller 3D-6.  These things may not look like much, but the roller saddles allow a clean breakover, as well as allow you to fine tune string spacing\location over pickup poles. I have these on two basses and three guitars. No issues with sustain or intonation. HTC1 |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 3:42:49 GMT -5
geo, I've no other alternatives to offer, my experience extends only to Hipshot - their products never fail to live up to their promise of high quality craftsmanship that lasts and lasts. But the next two on your list also have very good reputations for quality, so it's down to what tickles your fancy. As a bonus, the price points don't vary enough for that to enter into your decision, so.... looks, maybe? I dunno. HTH sumgai p.s. If you're going to retain the Jag pickups, then it certainly won't sound like a Les Paul! The pickups will be PAFs. Very LP.  |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 3:44:57 GMT -5
I can't speak for their guitar bridges, but the Babicz bass bridges are nice. It's a big chunk of metal, but not obscenely so. As sumgai says, Hipshot never disappoints. My personal favorite is the Schaller 3D-6. These things may not look like much, but the roller saddles allow a clean breakover, as well as allow you to fine tune string spacing\location over pickup poles. I have these on two basses and three guitars. No issues with sustain or intonation. HTC1 This looks very interesting! The horizontal adjustment looks very easy on this one. |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 12, 2023 5:58:50 GMT -5
The horizontal adjustment looks very easy on this one. I found that a pencil eraser is the best way to move them into position... According to Schaller, the 3 way adjustment works like this: String Spacing E-e: 50 - 56.5mm (1-31⁄32" - 2-7⁄32")
String Spacing Individual: 10 - 11.3mm (25⁄64" - 7⁄16")
String Radius: 7 - 20“
Height Adjustment: 3.5mm (9⁄64")
Maximum String Gauge: 52 (I have a 56 E string on one guitar...and it never acted up)
Weight: 152g (5.36 oz.) HTC1 |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 8:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 12, 2023 8:59:20 GMT -5
It reminds me a little of the Kahler 2440 bass bridge...  ...without the ability to move the saddles horizontally. ABM makes good stuff. I have a project awaiting completion that uses an ABM bass bridge. It's a quality piece of hardware. HTC1 |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 10:03:42 GMT -5
I ask because the ABM 3256c looks like it can work as a tailstop or a string-through bridge. (At least, that's what it looks like the holes at the end are for?)
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Post by thetragichero on Mar 12, 2023 11:53:27 GMT -5
i have a five string bass build that's been kicking around for a bunch of years never getting very close to completion that i found a babicz bridge for a good price for. obviously hasn't been played yet but it appears to be a fine piece of machinery
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 12, 2023 12:01:11 GMT -5
the ABM 3256c looks like it can work as a tailstop or a string-through bridge According to their site: The bridge is "String Thru" compatible.
String spacing: 54mm, Intonation range max. 11,5mm, Height-Adjustment max.12,5mm, string-thru body action  So, yeah, it does both. HTC1 |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 12:32:13 GMT -5
i have a five string bass build that's been kicking around for a bunch of years never getting very close to completion that i found a babicz bridge for a good price for. obviously hasn't been played yet but it appears to be a fine piece of machinery The Babicz looks interesting. Probably really easy to do the intonation/set-up. the ABM 3256c looks like it can work as a tailstop or a string-through bridge According to their site: The bridge is "String Thru" compatible.
String spacing: 54mm, Intonation range max. 11,5mm, Height-Adjustment max.12,5mm, string-thru body action So, yeah, it does both. HTC1 I'm just trying to figure out how the strings get through the back hole without touching the screws in the tail-stop configuration. Also feels like the ball-ends would be hanging off the bottom, which is an odd choice. I wonder if string-through compatible means only string-through compatible? |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 12, 2023 14:46:46 GMT -5
I'm just trying to figure out how the strings get through the back hole without touching the screws in the tail-stop configuration. Also feels like the ball-ends would be hanging off the bottom, which is an odd choice. I wonder if string-through compatible means only string-through compatible? I couldn't find one picture of this bridge in a top load configuration. It seems like you would have to route the strings through the holes in the saddles. What purpose would those holes serve otherwise? It seems string-through is how it works best. HTC1 |
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Post by Yogi B on Mar 12, 2023 15:18:01 GMT -5
I'm just trying to figure out how the strings get through the back hole without touching the screws in the tail-stop configuration. Also feels like the ball-ends would be hanging off the bottom, which is an odd choice. I wonder if string-through compatible means only string-through compatible? I couldn't find one picture of this bridge in a top load configuration. It seems like you would have to route the strings through the holes in the saddles. What purpose would those holes serve otherwise? The holes in the back contain the intonation adjustment grub screws, making it much easier to accurately set the intonation without requiring external tools (rather than just having the intonation locking screws à la Floyd's). It's an arrangement I mostly associate with the Wilkinson VS100 / HT100 bridges. It is much more clear to see what's going on with the black version of the ABM bridge: |
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Post by geo on Mar 12, 2023 16:53:08 GMT -5
Ahh, thank you! So only a string-through bridge. Design looks much more like others once you explained those are set screws for the intonation.
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 12, 2023 17:36:29 GMT -5
I don't see why you think the Babicz is easier to intonate than the others? Keep in mind what the saddles and bridge are made of. The ABM bridge is Brass, as I assume are the saddles. Brass rolls off high-end compared to Steel. You may not want that with Fe core pickups, as are most PAF's. Eddy currents caused by the Fe (Iron) in the Steel screws and slugs rolls off the high-end. Again, we can't predict how the guitar will sound until you try something. FI, I had a cheap Maple neck that absorbed a lot of high-end compared to another from the same guitar model. It was totally un-Stratty. The FB had some subtle Birdseye. I suspect that weak wood was the culprit.
BTW, the Babciz cams can be locked from behind with a set screw. That and the side screws should make everything very solid.
The Schaller bridge looks very good for the money. The rollers may move slightly with the string vibrations. My guess is that aspect and the different alloys mean the bridges sound a bit different. I can't find what the Schaller is made of, but the rollers may absorb some highs in the thinner strings.
I'm also curious what you're thinking of for PAF's. You don't need to spend a lot for good tone. What inductance, wire gauge, and magnet type do you imagine? Any thoughts on Filtertron types? GFS actually makes some nice ones for the money. The Classic Vintage set have a sweet chime-- bright without sounding harsh or thin. They are relatively low inductance. I guess you would use 250k pots or a 500k and a 250k:
They sell special rings the pickups attach to, or ones without the height screw holes if you want to mount the pickups directly to the body. That adds mass between the neck and bridge, which generally gives a warmer tone...likely less mid-range damping. That might be good with bright-sounding pickups.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 12, 2023 22:27:29 GMT -5
p.s. If you're going to retain the Jag pickups, then it certainly won't sound like a Les Paul! The pickups will be PAFs. Very LP. Well, whatever floats your boat. But I have to ask, if you want that LP tone (2 humbuckers and a mahogany body), why didn't you just start with an LP copy in the first place?  Unless you get your kicks from watching Fender enthusiasts freak out when they see what you're playing on-stage.....  |
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Post by geo on Mar 13, 2023 2:32:22 GMT -5
The pickups are these Seymour Duncans. I've never touched an instrument that felt as good in my hands as a Jaguar, but I really like the sound of a Les Paul. I don't really touch the tremolo arm, so I went about designing a jack-of-all-trades Jaguar that excels at the Les Paul sound. I'm hoping the string-through body design helps make up for the shorter scale length, plus I like the strings low and tight anyhow. The wiring is a little arcane, but I expect to have comfort and versatility. |
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 13, 2023 10:10:59 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 13, 2023 12:17:37 GMT -5
The holes in the back contain the intonation adjustment grub screws, making it much easier to accurately set the intonation without requiring external tools (rather than just having the intonation locking screws à la Floyd's). It's an arrangement I mostly associate with the Wilkinson VS100 / HT100 bridges. It is much more clear to see what's going on with the black version of the ABM bridge: Well, that explains it... So, does the saddle lock also act as a string lock when top loading? BTW, as thick as the Schaller bridge is for the weight, it's probably Aluminum. The baseplate on two of them are brass for sure. The other three, and the saddles, I have no idea. The plating hadn't been compromised on those. HTC1 |
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Post by gckelloch on Mar 13, 2023 15:50:46 GMT -5
Hard to tell the bridge material from a picture. The bass plate looks very thick judging from the screw holes. I suppose it could be Brass.
Brass saddles are softer than Steel strings. They may dig in a bit over time. I have a Brass Tele saddle on the plain strings of my baritone. The strings do dig in a little, but Brass saddles are pretty common.
A half round file is useful to smooth out saddle or nut grooves. You can get a really cheap file set online for that. I use an Exacto blade for the final shaping of the high E slot. That works for me.
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Post by geo on Mar 14, 2023 1:41:46 GMT -5
Ah, it's a 24" scale, then. And the Fender neck shape. I learned on a Strat, so my hands just never felt at home on the 'U' and 'D' shaped necks. BTW, as thick as the Schaller bridge is for the weight, it's probably Aluminum. It looks like it's zinc. |
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Post by geo on Mar 14, 2023 9:42:09 GMT -5
I think I'm going with option #2, the MannMade FatBack bridge. Hope it's worth the price! Edit: Looks like links on this site are getting wrapped with viglink. Is that helping to keep this place running, or did the site get hacked at some point? |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 14, 2023 10:22:17 GMT -5
It looks healthy enough. When you get it all put together, feel free to come back and tell us what you think. I notice he carries a lot of parts on his Reverb page. Seems pretty straight up. Yeah, it's just another passive way for bloggers and forums to monetize their site content. Firefox and Chrome hate it...but you can strip the vigilink prefix from the right click copied link and all should work fine. This has to be a Proboards thing...as we never see a check coming this way... Sign of the times...if you're not the paying customer, then you must be the product... HTC1 |
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Post by geo on Mar 14, 2023 10:38:18 GMT -5
When you get it all put together, feel free to come back and tell us what you think. I'll definitely let you all know how the finished product turns out! Yogi B helped sort my wiring out, and this is my first custom guitar (rather than just modding my trusty Mexi Strat), so I'll be eager to talk about what worked (and, should the need arise, what did not work). |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 14, 2023 12:08:28 GMT -5
Looks like links on this site are getting wrapped with viglink. Is that helping to keep this place running, or did the site get hacked at some point? Proboards has been doing this for several years now. They pitch it as a way to prevent malignant sites from following links back to the source (one of Pb's forums), and then installing malicious code. Do recall that not every Proboards forum has members that are on the positive side of the IQ bell curve, sorry to have to say. It actually works pretty well, by all accounts on the Administrators' forum. If a browser is having issues with a redirect, then that's on them, not the substitute link that protects a forum. The practice is pretty common nowadays, and a browser that can't distinguish between a third-party script and one that originates on a same-address host as the forum, well.... I feel for the inadequacies of those programmers. if you're on Windows, try either Vivaldi or Brave. If you're on a Linux box, reverse the order of those two recommendations. And insofar as I've learned, there is no monetization going on. Proboards has insisted, from the time that I became the SysAdmin here (in 2007!), that their expenses are covered by paid hosting (with extra services not available to free boards) and advertising. Unless that redirect script has some pretty insidious routines buried deep within, I'm not seeing how it can provide an additional revenue stream. HTH sumgai |
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Post by geo on Mar 14, 2023 12:31:34 GMT -5
I just have to click through warning on uBlock Origin each time. Looks like there's a solution to automatically unwrap the links, but I thought I'd bring it up in case there was something amiss. |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 14, 2023 13:24:26 GMT -5
There is a Linux version of Brave. It passes the vigilink redirect without an issue. You just have to turn off all the Brave Rewards stuff so it behaves. I believe ProBards is gaining some financial benefit from their relationship with vigilink. According to Wikipedia: VigLink is a San Francisco-based, outbound-traffic monetization service for publishers, forums, and bloggers. VigLink specializes in in-text advertising and marketing.[1][2][3][4] VigLink CEO Oliver Roup founded the company in March 2009.[5][6][7]
In 2012, Oliver Roup reported VigLink was working on 5 billion pages per month.[8]
As of November 2014, VigLink has raised $27.34 million and is working with 63,000 online retailers including EBay, Target, Amazon.com, and Wal-Mart.[9][10][11][12]
Service
VigLink's content monetization solution connects potential consumers to products by hyperlinking particular keywords in a website's content.[1][3][7][9]
The company's technology, VigLink Insert, scans a page for words that could be potentially profitable to the publisher of the page, and connects the keyword with a product from an affiliate program.[3][4] The publisher is paid when a reader clicks a link contained in the content to buy or learn more about a service or product.[3][7][12]
VigLink also offers an outbound analytics service for clients to understand where readers go when they leave their site.[8][13][14] Ya' gotta keep the lights on... HTC1 |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 14, 2023 16:10:04 GMT -5
Well, that certainly puts a different light on things. I never thought to search and see if the script was from a different outfit, I just assumed it was a Proboards thing. See my earlier musings about Proboards stating (quite some time ago, now) that they profited from selling premium hosting services and advertisements. I presumed that they meant on-page advertisements, but.... And I remember reading that post well before the viglink thing was instituted, I do recall that much. Even so, I liked the part where it said "where there are keywords that the page publisher might profit from a viewer that clicks on a link of interest". Anyone see anything like that here? No? I thought not. What we're seeing in the The NutzHouse is that every link posted by a user is redirected through viglink. From that, I just assumed it was Proboards, doing the clean-up act they originally spoke of. One More Thing: As it happens, I switched away from Vivaldi on Ubuntu (Zorin flavor), and over to Brave some time ago. Vivaldi has a rather strict policy of ignoring users who request that the company give users the option of ignoring warnings about some sites' security certificates that Vivaldi somehow insists are bad, even though they're perfectly good. This prevented me from visiting askubuntu.com, where I was getting my tutoring during my initial foray into Linux and Ubuntu/Zorin. When other browsers exhibited either no problem at all, or gave me the option of ignoring the warning, I knew that Vivaldi was overdoing the guard dog bit. Even so, other users seem to have no problem with that particular browser, so who knows, maybe it's just me after all.....  HTH sumgai |
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Unless you get your kicks from watching Fender enthusiasts freak out when they see what you're playing on-stage..... 
