HH Superswitch and push pull guitar wiring

[andrew023]

Hi folks, i´m new in this forum, i´m amateur guitarrist, and guitar projects enthusiast. I´m sorry for my english, is not my language, but i keep trying  

I develope this guitar wiring, the circuit has A500K Volume Pot, A500K Tone Push Pull Pot (Yes, i like the sound of A pot on the tone) and a 5 way and 4 poles superswitch, the configuration i´ve seached  is: 

(Push Pull Down or Off) 
1- Bridge Humbucker
2- Bridge Outer Coil (Screw) + Neck Humbucker
3- Both Humbuckers 
4- Neck Outer Coil (Screw) + Bridge Humbucker 
5- Neck Humbucker 

(Push Pull Up or On) 
1- Bridge Outer Coil (Screw)
2- Bridge Outer Coil (Screw) + Neck Inner Coil (Slug)
3- Bridge and Neck Outer Coils (screw)
4- Neck Outer Coil (Screw) + Bridge Inner Coil (Slug) 
5- Neck Outer Coil (Screw)

The pickup color code are the same of seymour duncan:

Black: North Start (Hot)
Red: South Finish (Series)
White: North Finish (Series)
Green: South Start (Ground) 


this wiring and pickup configuration is possible?, i want to mention, in the position 2 and 4 with the push pull down, i have sound, but when i activate the push pull the sound is off. I test the pickups in each positions making the hit test on the pickup with a metal piece. 

i repeat, i´m sorry for my english and thank you for read

[newey]

andrew023-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Don't worry about your English, we'll work around any language issues that may arise.

First off, we'll need some more information. Your diagram seems to indicate pickups with Seymour Duncan's wire coilor scheme. But many other manufacturers use the same wire colors, but their screw and slug coils may or may not be the same as SD. So, since your scheme involves having the screw coil(s) in certain positions, wiith the slug coils in others, we can't tell what coil you're selecting in those split-coil positions.

I have only just started looking at your diagram, I will have to look into it in more depth when I get some more time, unless some one else can review it first. But I think I already see one problem just at first glance. Position 5 is intended to be the neck HB when the push/pull is down. So, the Neck black wire connects to output at position 5 through the upper right-hand pole of the 5-way switch. The neck green is permanently grounded. The neck white and red wires (the "series junction" between the two coils) are connected only to each other, as they are wired to lug #2 on the upper left-hand pole of the switch, which doesn't connect to anything else at position 5. So, you get the full neck HB at that position. So far, so good.

But then look at the bridge HB wiring for position 5. At that position, the bridge HB is supposed to be disconnected. The Bridge HB's black wire is disconnected at position 5. As with the neck, the bridge's green wire is permanently grounded. However, the series junction of the bridge HB, the red/white pair, is wired to position 5 on the upper left pole of the switch, and the upper left pole is connected to the output. So, with the green wire connected to ground and the red wire connected to the output, you'd also have the red/green coil of the bridge HB (again, no way to know for sure which is which without the wire colors/pickup brand info) in addition to the full neck HB. Which was not what you listed.

There may be more issues, more to come.

[andrew023]

The pickups color wiring it´s similar to seymour duncan pickups. Here is the same wiring with more information:

[mikecg]

Sept 5, 2023 20:48:19 GMT -5 andrew023 said:

The pickups color wiring it´s similar to seymour duncan pickups. Here is the same wiring with more information:

Hello, I'm having some difficulty with your diagram, but if you are interested in seeing an alternative that may do what you want, you are welcome to try this:

[andrew023]

I really liked! Thanks!. But have a question about the 2nd position, The hot wire of bridge is not connected to the volume input and the series cables be are, i didn't understand.

Maybe tomorrow I will make the connections and share the results.

[newey]

Sept 6, 2023 20:27:50 GMT -5 andrew023 said:

The hot wire of bridge is not connected to the volume input and the series cables be are, i didn't understand.

At position 2, as per mikecg's schematic, the bridge pickup is split to the bridge south coil, in both positions of the push/pull. So, at position 2, the bridge's green wire is grounded, the red and white wires are connected to the hot output, so we get the green/white coil operating with the north coil disconnected.

One minor issue with mikecg's diagram is that, at position 2, the bridge's north coil (we are assuming it's North, but as I said above, the pickups may not be the same coil orientation as SD pickups) is left "hanging from the hot", that is, the red wire is connected to output while the black wire is disconnected. A hanging coil might (I emphasize "might") result in some extra noise, at least in theory. So, as a "best practices" rule of thumb, we try to avoid hanging coils if possible. Sometimes, however, in a particular scheme it can't be helped.

With mikecg's scheme, however, it can be easily avoided. The bridge's black wire can simply be connected to the output at position 2; this then shorts the North coil to itself.

[mikecg]

Sept 7, 2023 5:04:06 GMT -5 newey said:

Sept 6, 2023 20:27:50 GMT -5 andrew023 said:

The hot wire of bridge is not connected to the volume input and the series cables be are, i didn't understand.

At position 2, as per mikecg's schematic, the bridge pickup is split to the bridge south coil, in both positions of the push/pull. So, at position 2, the bridge's green wire is grounded, the red and white wires are connected to the hot output, so we get the green/white coil operating with the north coil disconnected.

One minor issue with mikecg's diagram is that, at position 2, the bridge's north coil (we are assuming it's North, but as I said above, the pickups may not be the same coil orientation as SD pickups) is left "hanging from the hot", that is, the red wire is connected to output while the black wire is disconnected. A hanging coil might (I emphasize "might") result in some extra noise, at least in theory. So, as a "best practices" rule of thumb, we try to avoid hanging coils if possible. Sometimes, however, in a particular scheme it can't be helped.

With mikecg's scheme, however, it can be easily avoided. The bridge's black wire can simply be connected to the output at position 2; this then shorts the North coil to itself.

Ok - my bad! Sorry folks - I'm getting my neck south's and north's muddled up!

I have now corrected the diagram and included newey's suggestion regarding 'hanging hot' connections:

[andrew023]

A few days ago I´ve made the guitar connections and worked perfectly! Thanks to mike and newey for the help. This wiring I've tortured me for long days, today today I will be able to sleep peacefully

[mikecg]

Hello Andrew, I'm very pleased to hear that your problem is solved!

[kittentaser]

Sorry to necro this thread. To mikecg, i’m having trouble understanding your diagram. I would like to do the same setup as the OP. What are the dotted lines, and which of the terminals belong to the push-pull?

Im only used to the diagrams that look like the sd ones

I have sd sh-55’s (4 conductor)and a 5way4pole with standard volume knob and push pull tone, and when it comes to wiring i am a toddler.

[newey]

kittentaser-


Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Feb 12, 2024 14:59:51 GMT -5 kittentaser said:

when it comes to wiring i am a toddler.

Hopefully we can get you past the toddler stage, get you up and running . . . . But it will, I'm afraid, involve teaching you to fish as opposed to handing you a tarpon.

mikecg's diagram (by adding the "@" sign, I'm "tagging" Mike so he sees this thread) is an electrical schematic diagram, that's why it doesn't look like SD's, which are wiring diagrams.

A schematic simply shows electrically "what connects to what". It doesn't know or care about the actual shapes or sizes of the components, it is only concerned with their connections. So, in a schematic, a componenet like your 4-pole Superswitch-type is shown by mikecg as 4 separate disambiguated switch poles, with the 5 positions on each numbered 1-5 (middle numbers are omitted for clarity). As shown on his diagram, the dotted line represents the 5-way switch in Position 1; the other end of the dotted line is connected to the common lug for that pole. All 4 poles are, physically, part of the same 5-way switch, but the schematic separates them apart so the connections can be more readily traced.

The push/pull switch is shown in the lower right portion, as a series of 6 dots, again with the dotted line showing the common lug connecting to the "up" or "down" lugs, as they are labelled. His pickup connections are labelled "NS", i.e., "North Start", "SF" "South Finish" as so forth. With a bit of looking at it, you'll see what I mean.

So, when we are working out a scheme, a schematic is usually the first step. The schematic is then translated into a wiring diagram like SD has, and the actual soldering is done using the wiring diagram. So, see if you can translate mikecg's schematic into a wiring diagram. You'll have questions- ask away. You'll make mistakes- we'll correct them in a non-judgmental fashion. We, too, all toddled once.

[mikecg]

Hello kittentaser, it looks like newey has you 'under his wing', but now that I am aware of your project, I will also keep an eye on progress, and may even 'butt in' from time to time. 

[kittentaser]

 newey

Ok let me try with just the switch only and see how off i am. Using the same color codes as you guys did. I'm almost sure I misinterpreted the schematic somehow. 

I live in Tarpon Springs so your tarpon term is extra fun.

[mikecg]

Hello kittentaser,

Yep - so far - so good!

[newey]

Feb 15, 2024 11:05:11 GMT -5 kittentaser said:

I live in Tarpon Springs so your tarpon term is extra fun.

As I intended. I saw that you IP address came back from Tarpon Springs. The staff checks all new members to keep an eye on likely spammers.

[kittentaser]

newey

here goes




All i need is to know what to do with the remaining push pull terminals.... i think.

[mikecg]

The connection to the remaining push-pull (or push-push) lugs will depend on the mechanical details of the switch. In your wiring diagram, either the two upper lugs will have no connection, and the lower left and lower right lugs will be connected to ground, and lug 3 of the volume pot, respectively, or the lower two lugs will have no connection, and the upper left and upper right lugs will be connected to ground, and lug 3 of the volume pot, respectively. When you come to solder the wires to the switch, it would be wise to check its function with a multimeter set to check circuit continuity (beep mode).

[kittentaser]

My goal of course is for the pot when pushed to be the normal humbuckers and pulled to be the coil tap. So I’m pretty sure the bottom one in this pot’s case is the push and the top is the pull

One question:

The ground and volume 3 is the humbucker and no connection is the coil split, right?

Also i kind of love learning this stuff. Ive been visualizing how this all routes and why.

Excellent use of a superswitch mike.

[mikecg]

Wrong!

There are coil splits available in both positions of the push-pull switch.
'Ground and volume 3' gives you the selections shown in the 'truth table' under the heading 'Down/on', and 'no connection' gives you the selections shown under the heading 'Up/off'. And good to hear that you are enjoying your learning experience!

[kittentaser]

Here. I set this up identical to the cavity in my guitar so I can actually use it to solder.

I have omited the green/bare wires from the leads as we know they are going to ground. Also the red wire is both red and grey leads since they go to the same spot.

To make things easier to see i colored anything going to ground green, and just showed the push pull terminals as the color of the wires that will connect to them from the switch.

Q's:
1. The previous setup in there had the cap tied into the middle lug on the volume pot. Is there any advantage to that in comparison to lug 3 as i have drawn here?
2. Why does the 5 position on switch 1 south position 5 go to ground, where switch 1 north position 1 does not?
3. Did I do the diagram correctly? Any alterations because these pickups have the metal over them?

[mikecg]

A's:
1. There are 3 possible ways to wire the tone cap. I suggest you try all three, and pick the one you like best. Here is a link on this topic:

www.premierguitar.com/diy/mod-garage/tone-pot-wiring

And more posts on this topic can be found on this guitarnutz 2 site.

2. I think you are referring to the NS (black) 'hanging hot' on position 1, and yes, there is no reason why you should not ground that lug.

3. If the pickup cables have a separate outer shield you will need to solder the shield connections to a ground point. So called 'single point' or 'star' grounding is 'best practice'.  Here is a link on this topic:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/10598/star-point-ground

[kittentaser]

Ok sorry to hijack but i went back and i think i fixed everything. Switched the pos 1 bridge tap to north coil, along with switching position 2 and 4 and a few other things. I included a key though so you can see whats different.

How'd i do? mikecg newey
Have I learned to fish?

[newey]

Yes, kittentaser, you have done well, looks good to me. A couple of points. First, your push/pull switch will select both outer coils at position 3, which will be both the screw coils if the pickups are oriented as per your diagram. This will not be hum-cancelling. No way around this with the coil splits that you want. However, also be aware that positions 2 and 4, BN + NS and BS + NN may not sound appreciably different, assuming the pickups coils are identically wound.

mikecg's link to the tone controls I question. The guy seems to minimize the issue- interaction of the V and T controls- with the '50's wiring and lauds the positives. That control interaction is a deal-killer for '50's wiring in my book. And the idea that, somehow, the so-called '60's wiring will be noisier than the modern version I'm not buying it. I'd need some objective testing before I'm buying that which lug on the tone pot gets used makes any difference in the noise floor. Dirk Wacker is the guy who writes this stuff for Premier Guitar and I have often found some of his stuff to be questionable if not outright wrong. Use his name as a search term here and I'm sure a few examples will pop up.

[kittentaser]

Thanks for the advice and yes i came to the understanding that premiere was full of it pretty quickly.

As for your comments on the diagram, i will do thought experiments with more voicings, but now that you guys taught me this cool stuff, i dont have to stink up this thread with it. I toddle no more. May your blessings be great!

[mikecg]

Hello kittentaser,

Good luck with your build/mods - I see that newey has you on the straight and narrow!