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Post by ssstonelover on Oct 23, 2023 18:58:16 GMT -5
I just finished up a batch build of 2 guitars. They are chambered inside and both are routed for SSS pickup size. One is mostly Mahogany (Home Depot), the other cedar (salvaged from a 'steamer chest'). The Mahogany one has Waah pickups with a fatter wind, the Cedar one has a set of EMG SA from the 1980s that I found in my collection that I had received free from another luthier (I added an SPC pot too for some versatility however). The pickups go through a Free-way 10-way switch on the Mahogany, and a simple 5-way on the Cedar one (augmented by an additional neck-on switch). Here are some images:  
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 24, 2023 7:52:28 GMT -5
It strikes me that either you, or a bevy of your left handed friends have some nice guitars... Cedar? Hmmm... How does that sound next to the mahogany version? Would you use it again? the other cedar (salvaged from a 'steamer chest') This made me laugh. I was living in South Carolina 100 years ago when a hurricane went through the region. Lumber of any sort rose in price straight through the roof, as it usually does in those circumstances. I was at an estate sale and happened to notice two nice mahogany end tables with a few years on them. A quick head calc determined it would be cheaper to buy these tables and cannibalize them to build a guitar or bass versus buying the lumber raw...plus it had 40 years to dry out and stabilize... Ya live long enough.... Nice work, again, as usual. Thanks for sharing. HTC1 |
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kitwn
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 95
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Post by kitwn on Oct 24, 2023 17:19:35 GMT -5
Very nice! I like the Strat style without the pickguard so the wood is shown off better. The construction is very interesting, do you do the routing by hand or CNC? I'm currently drawing up a 3-single-coil design which will look similar and haven't yet decided on the exact construction. I'm tempted to try a clamshell or layered method as I want plenty of room inside to experiment with active electronics and don't have a full thickness slab of any juicy looking timber in my stash anyway.
I'm intrigued by the cutaway under the neck joint. Doesn't that further weaken an already vulnerable part of the body? There's obviously a good reason for doing it.
Kit
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Post by gckelloch on Oct 24, 2023 19:51:27 GMT -5
I'm skeptical of the access cut on guitars as well. The neck heel should still be ~3/4" thick, though. Perhaps it has some effect on damping, but so does the chambering. My experience with a yellow pine body S-type is it seems to have less mid-bass than my Alder and Walnut S-types. I wonder if the Cedar has that same sound?
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Post by ssstonelover on Oct 24, 2023 23:36:59 GMT -5
Cedar? Hmmm... How does that sound next to the mahogany version? Would you use it again? The cedar, even chambered out, is surprisingly heavy, heavier than some of my guitars with no chambering at all, and certainly WAY heavier than the chambered mahogany one. That was a bit of a surprise, but then again you don't know until you try something, and it still is cool, even then. I do have to say it is a looker, but the fact of its origin (the chest used small short pieces butted together with some additional cedar veneer to get the needed length and width) -- that I then band sawed and sandwiched together with a 'middle' poplar layer -- is not going to appeal to 'tone wood' snobs. Oh well, not my problem.... Anyway it was well aged wood, many years old I'm sure! As far as the sound, it sounds fine acoustically though not so bright in the higher frequencies as say a guitar with a maple neck, but certainly that is less important than how it sounds with pickups. Well, since this one is using EMG SA (actives), that is going to sound way different than the passives I have on the Mahogany guitar, so a comparison can't be made fairly unless they used the same electronics. I do like the look, but maybe 1/4" cedar top would have given much of that look with less weight....so if I did another one, that would be a direction that could be taken. |
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Post by ssstonelover on Oct 25, 2023 0:11:44 GMT -5
Do you do the routing by hand or CNC? I'm currently drawing up a 3-single-coil design which will look similar and haven't yet decided on the exact construction. I'm tempted to try a clamshell or layered method as I want plenty of room inside to experiment with active electronics and don't have a full thickness slab of any juicy looking timber in my stash anyway.
I'm intrigued by the cutaway under the neck joint. Doesn't that further weaken an already vulnerable part of the body? There's obviously a good reason for doing it. These 2 builds were hand routing. By that I mean I designed and printed out full size drawings, glued them to template wood that is then band sawed, drilled and filed to the drawing lines. A lot of work, before even starting the routing! The next one I plan to post will be by CNC (I now have SolidWorks plus a friend with a CNC table, and the 1st test body is made..... Accuracy is a bit higher and skipping lots of intermediate steps saves time. The only drawback is access to a CNC and all the knowledge to operate it correctly! The 1st body is a traditional S-type without chambering (pilot trial after all), but certainly by #2, or #3, chambering would be possible. I designed in a very generously sized control cavity that can take up to 4 pots, the jack, a PCB board & wiring for active stuff, a 5-way switch, 2 DPDT switches, and then I have space (elsewhere) to put up to 2 x 9-volt battery boxes, should I ever need 18V..... The upper fret neck access is something I really like to do. You may have noticed the 2 designs are executed differently there, with the cedar one having less material removed. The next one has even less material removed using an angled 'cut' (see the the image below) but quite frankly I've never had an issue and if you use good wood you should not either. In my opinion it's a non-issue or otherwise it would have put Ibanez out of business, etc....  |
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Post by ssstonelover on Oct 25, 2023 0:48:14 GMT -5
I'm skeptical of the access cut on guitars as well. The neck heel should still be ~3/4" thick, though. Perhaps it has some effect on damping, but so does the chambering. My experience with a yellow pine body S-type is it seems to have less mid-bass than my Alder and Walnut S-types. I wonder if the Cedar has that same sound? Pickups, strings, neck, all add large parts to the sound spectrum. I've now made 3 chambered guitars in the S-type. -The brightest (acoustically) was the poplar one with the maple neck. What is freaky about it acoustically is that because of the chambering it seem to be more alive and resonant as well. Not a lot of low end, but then again it has a steel block tremolo and Graph-tech polymer saddles. The fact that it (amplified) is set up with active EQ (though with passive pickups) gives it that thinner sound there too (no capacitance effect), unless you roll off all the treble and increase the Mid and Bass controls, which is what I tend to do to beef up the sound when needed. -The cedar (acoustically) is kind of in the middle, but with a rosewood fingerboard, brass block tremolo, and stainless saddles, that might be what you'd expect. The EMGs are fairly neutral (when powered) -The mahogany (acoustically) is the softest sounding and the lowest in the frequency spread. Rosewood fingerboard, brass block, and titanium saddles.... Chambering may be soaking up some of the sound, or it could just be the quality of Home Depot wood, hard to know. The fact that I combined it with higher wind single coils accentuates that mid/low focus so it is quite different sounding (amplified) than 95% of all my S-type guitars. More in the SRV camp....My boyfriend really likes the sound as being a departure from my usual sounds. As far as the upper fret access cuts, I've done this a bunch of years without an issue, as have Ibanez and a host of others (and in far greater volumes). Also remember bolt-on necks fit into a slot (neck pocket) with deep walls all around ~3 sides, so they are well supported even if 1/4" inch is trimmed away on the back side of the body (partially or fully). Also there are many access cuts, so if you are at all nervous, you can avail yourself to 'less invasive' cuts. (see the image I sent to kitwn for example). There are many ways to skin that cat after all, so something for everyone. |
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Post by mikecg on Oct 31, 2023 17:59:05 GMT -5
I just finished up a batch build of 2 guitars. They are chambered inside and both are routed for SSS pickup size. One is mostly Mahogany (Home Depot), the other cedar (salvaged from a 'steamer chest'). Nice work - a true labour of love! I would be interested to know what your finished guitars weigh in at? |
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Post by ssstonelover on Nov 3, 2023 1:17:49 GMT -5
I would be interested to know what your finished guitars weigh in at? 8.2 lb Cedar (w/o strap) 6.4 lb Mahogany (w/strap) 6.8 Poplar (w/strap) Here is the thing, the bodies can be impressively light, and even a bit resonant acoustically, but once you load on heavy locking tuners, a tremolo with a full size brass block, and the rest of the parts, weight will go up. The cedar is significantly heavier than the others, so it must be a pretty dense wood, at least the wood I had. The other 2 are very close to each other. Of course if I had not chambered them they would weight even more, though without a control (same guitar without the lightening) it is hard to say how much heavier. Warmouth claims about 25% difference, or even a little more, on their version of this idea, but I don't know if that is just the body.... |
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Post by mikecg on Nov 3, 2023 18:14:42 GMT -5
Thanks - interesting to compare with my 1999 MIK Epi LP special - made from ~ 15 ply alder/mahogany laminate with a mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard - not chambered, and weighing in at around 7.7 lb - so a little lighter than your cedar and a little heavier than your mahogany guitars.
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Post by ssstonelover on Nov 3, 2023 19:43:24 GMT -5
Thanks - interesting to compare with my 1999 MIK Epi LP special - made from ~ 15 ply alder/mahogany laminate with a mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard - not chambered, and weighing in at around 7.7 lb - so a little lighter than your cedar and a little heavier than your mahogany guitars. Interesting, the tremolo system (brass block) is a real boat anchor, but I'm sure there are some heavier items on a LP too. |
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