HSH Guitar Kit w/ 3 pots + switch + Ebay pups

[tommyd2]

Could use help as I cant find any reliable diagram to go from. I have: (2) 500K CTS DPDT pots (Audio taper), Tone cap, (1) basic 500K audio taper pot, Oak Grigsby 5-way Superswitch, and (HSH) set of Guitar Madness Hexbuckers (4 conductor w/ Duncan Designed style wiring). 
Id like the volume push-pull to coil split (up) both bridge and neck in their respective positions, tone push-pull to phase reverse (up) for both pups, and basic audio taper pot to act as a (fralin) blend pot. I don't know if this needs a superswitch but that's what I have. I can/will update as I try to figure out on my own. 

Pos 1: Neck 

Pos 2: Neck + Mid 

Pos 3: Neck + Bridge

Pos 4: Bridge + Mid 

Pos 5: Bridge 

phase rev. mod, coil split mod, blend pot

[newey]

tommyd2-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Mar 28, 2024 16:58:18 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

tone push-pull to phase reverse (up) for both pups

You have three pickups, so I'm not clear on the "both pups" part. A DPDT switch can reverse the phase of one pickup only. If, for example, you wire it to swap the phase of the the neck pickup, you get the neck OOP with the Mid at position 2, and the neck OOP with the bridge at position 3. You don't get the bridge OOP with the mid, however. If you put the phase switch on the bridge pickup instead, you'll get the bridge OOP with the mid at 4, and OOP with the neck at 3, but you won't get the neck and mid OOP. To get all 3 possible OOP settings, more switching would be needed. But it's probably not worthwhile to worry about getting all 3 OOP combos, pick the 2 that you'd like best.

Either option, whether the neck or bridge is the OOP pickup, gives you the N + Bridge OOP, which will be the most useful OOP setting. Either the N OOP with the Mid or the Brodge OOP with the mid is likely to have too much signal cancellation to be really useful. So pick whichever of the two options you want and forget the third. The N + B OOP is the one you want anyway. Just IMO, of course.

You would not, IMO, want to phase the middle pickup 'cause then you lose the B and N OOP.

basic audio taper pot to act as a (fralin) blend pot.

Blending . . .what?

I don't know if this needs a superswitch but that's what I have.

It does require a Superswitch (or similar), for that neck/bridge combo at position 3, if nothing else.

the volume push-pull to coil split (up) both bridge and neck in their respective positions

I'm reading this to mean that both HBs will be split simultaneously, both are split or neither is split, correct?

Sorry for all the questions. All of this is doable, we just need to nail things down a bit more before we talk specifics.

[tommyd2]

We'll say phase rev. on bridge pup (assuming means applies to 3-5 positions?). Blend mod I believe is for blending signals from bridge and neck hots. Link has more info (incl. diagram) but mainly intend to use it for the all three pickup sounds in 2,4 pos. Lastly, I do intend for both hums to be split in any position when (vol) pot is pulled up. 
Thanks a ton for ur help Newey, this is my first customish build from a kit as a 15yr old.

[newey]

tommyd2-

OK, that clears things up. So, think of this design as a series of individual modules. You have the module for the phase switch above. If that is to go on the bridge, bridge + and - get wired to the phase switch as shown, first in line after the bridge pickup. The "series junction" of the bridge HB (the 2 "finish" wires as shown on the diagram), instead of being wired to each other only, instead are wired together to one center lug of the coil split switch. The "series junction" for the neck HB gets wired to the other middle lug of the coil split switch.

The diagram you have for the coil split switch is for only one HB, and uses only one pole of the DPDT. You will use both poles, such that the neck HB's "series junction" connects to output when pulled and the bridge HB "series junction" connects to ground. This arrangement will then split one HB to the N coil and the other to the S coil so that, when both are split together at position 3, the combo is hum-cancelling. This assumes, however, that your 2 HBs are identical. If they are not, you may need to do some testing to see which coils are the N and which are the S as this will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I can/will update as I try to figure out on my own.

Using the above as a start, you should try to rough out a diagram with the modules you posted. We'll then make sure you're headed in the right direction to get to a final diagram. For the superswitch, there are several different ways to get the combos you want, but I would do it using one pole of the superswitch to control the N and B pickups in positions 1,2,4 and 5, omitting position 3. Another pole switches the middle pup in/out as needed at positions 2 and 4. A third pole is then used to combine the N abd B at position 3. Fourth pole is unused.

V and T pots will be just as with any similar wiring. You don't have a blend pot diagram, so let's hold off on that for now and we'll add it in once you get a diagram for the pickup switching worked out. BTW, the link you provided to the "Blend Pot" looks to be just a regular pot, there's no need to buy a specialized pot for the blender, and it doesn't look like there's anything special about the pot in your link (except for a premium price!)

[stevewf]

I'm remembering one of reTrEaD's tutorials for handing series/parallel and phase switching. Via a superswitch, it assigns each pickup/coil to either a "foundation" or "elevated" role, and mixes the two roles.

Since the OP seems to be focused on parallel sounds only -- please confirm* -- then part of the tutorial may be ignored. Still, at a glance, it looks like the phase switching could be handled by a two-tier construction.

But first, we should be sure there isn't any Series/Parallel switching required.

*the Fralin blender, installed as per the page's instructions, will only work in a parallel setting anyway. The mfr installation instructions can be found further down the Fralin product page, under the "installation" tab.

[tommyd2]

For now, parallel is fine as I don't want to overcomplicate anything and confuse myself (might figure out on later project) but youre saying that phase switch should be accomplished per the superswitch? I'd prefer it thru the pot bc I bought pp pot purposefully to do phase switching for bridge. Also working on a diagram from neweys help so far and will post once I have something (for correction)
Thanks a ton

[stevewf]

We'll respect the requested functions of all the controls, always!

I think I can envision a way to do this. But I'm kinda slow and have little free time, so I hope somebody can beat me to it.

After a second glance, and with the understanding of all-parallel, I can see that @retreead's tutorial doesn't quite cover this territory, but adapting it kinda could. Rather than using the tutorial's hierarchical two-tier system, we could make two separate parallel paths, and use the 5-way to assign a pickup to either of those paths - the choice depending on the pairings of pickups. We'd purposefully assign the bridge always to one of the paths, so that we could flip its polarity with a DPDT. I haven't tried blending a-la Fralin before, so I'm not sure whether it'll work here. It might have a side-effect of blending in the middle pickup sometimes? The HB splitter seems trivial, if we allow the usual shorting of coils.

The side-effect that I definitely see for the above-outlined proposal is that the phase switch would also flip the middle pickup's phase in position#2; this wasn't defined in your request, but it also wasn't prohibited there. Other have warned about OoP strat coils in B+M and M+N; I second it. Filtering one of the coils when in parallel helps a lot, in my experience.

I won't have time for a day and a half to actually try to design. Maybe you'll cook it up first!

[tommyd2]

Got so far. Please correct me. Not super confident whatsoever on the coil split so just copied whatever newey said. Also not sure where my neck south start is supposed to go. Once I get this bit right I'll try to fit in the fralin blend pot but might take me a minute 
Again, Thanks for any help

[tommyd2]

Found this diagram for superswitch w/ normal pots and figured its similar enough to what I already want, could possibly just adapt vol pot to do Bridge phase switch and tone to maybe neck-mid series/parallel as well as add blend pot. I know I might want too much so just give me your best recommendations and a start to go off of. thks. If anything, Ill just one hundred percent copy this diagram w/ no mods and still be happy

[newey]

The diagram looks OK except that, by using the 5-way switch to split the coils at positions 2 and 4, you lose the ability to split the coils for N and B at position 3 (unless you want the coils to always be split at position 3, but I don't think you'd want that).

BTW, where did you get that diagram? It's always good to give credit where due.

If you give me a day or two, I can probably pull a diagram together for you with all the options you want.

[stevewf]

I have another question about your components, about polarity. It'd be good to know which magnetic polarities you have, in order to take advantage of hum-cancelling options when available. This can affect, for example, which of the humbuckers' coils should get shorted when splitting, and when phase-flipping a half-shunted humbucker that's to be mixed with another coil.

In particular, it'd be good to know if the humbuckers' outer coils are like- or unlike- magnets and windings. And then, which of the HBs' coils are like/unlke the middle pickup's coil

Do you have a way to determine the polarities for each of the 5 coils? Common tools include:
manufacturer documentation
screwdriver + multimeter pull-off test
magnetic compass
face-to-facing the coils

[tommyd2]

Newey: You're right. I don't want the superswitch to handle coil splitting (still want splitting in all positions). Also diagram credit was from Six String Supplies UK (my bad). This probably means I'll revert to my orig plan to have the two push-pull pots handle coil splitting and phase switch (unless stevewf can help me with his adaptation of retreead's idea/tutorial). Meant to post sooner but was out of town for wknd. 
Stevewf: As I said earlier, Im not particularly interested in the superswitch/DPDT adapted idea bc Im worried a small mistake might take weeks to fix and I don't have the understanding to really handle it (this is my first custom wiring project anyway). However, I will try to figure out the pup polarities, probably w/ a multimeter (will find some youtube tutorial to use it with). 

Here are some pics from the Guitar Madness ebay on the pups: (they're shown in an order so am making the assumption the polarity is N,S;N;N,S top-bottom but will still test anyway), also diagram is given on their website for pups but doesn't appear to give anything we don't already know

[tommyd2]

Per Stevewf's request, Polarities for each pickup are as follows: N,S,S,S,N (Tan coils attract South, Black coils attract North). Assuming means that pos 2 will use upper neck coil and middle when split, pos 3 will use lower neck and lower bridge coil, and pos 4 will use middle and lower bridge.
While I was there, I confirmed phase complatibility w/ a multimeter (all the same w/ black as ground and red(Mid)/green(hums) for hot)
credit to phostenix's youtube tutorial vid

Also, whenever we get to it, diag for blend (bridge/neck) pot (Fralin pickups link): (maybe wired thru commons on superswitch on designated pole for bridge/neck?)

[unreg]

tommyd2: Hi. Welcome. To send a notification, similar to the one you probably received due to my post, to people you are talking to, simply add a @ before their name. @ before Newey makes newey, and he’s now alerted of my post.

[stevewf]

tommyd2, thanks for the polarities and for the mixing preferences. Should be able to cook up an answer to the original request based on the aggregated info.

As for the Fralin blender hookup, it's quite possible that the pot sold by Fralin for that is uses a reverse audio ("C") taper. That'd mitigate the "all-at-one-end syndrome", but it's not absolutely necessary; you can still use a normal Audio ("A") taper for blending.

Hooking up the blender the way Fralin does it needs two things:

- each of the pickups involved must have a ground supply in both situations: when it's directly selected, and when its counterpart is selected. In your setup, that covers all positions of the 5-way. This means that the Neck pickup must always have a ground supply, and same for the Bridge. The easiest way to achieve that is to hard-wire the overall ground to the pickup's GND lead. That's a simple answer for the neck pickup, and only slightly more complicated for the bridge (because of the requirement for phase-swapping; for the bridge, it's leads will go to a DPDT, and in turn that DPDT would have a lug hard-wired to ground). Taking this easy way will result in the potential drawback of having a coil that's inactive being nevertheless connected to ground. Some say this could change the sound of the guitar, though the consensus at GN2 seems to be that it's not a 7th level sin. Personally, I don't see a way to avoid it 100% using your components, but (also personally) I think it's just fine.

- one outer lug of the blend pot will get directly connected to the HOT lead of one pickup, and the middle lug of the pot gets directly connected to the other pickup's HOT. In addition to those connections, the HOTs also go onward to their otherwise normal connections. This is why the two pickups always need a ground feed; they can be called upon -- regardless of position of the 5-way --  by turning the blender pot, which accepts their output, and of course they'll need gnd for providing that signal. The choice of which outer lug to use depends on two things: whether you prefer "10 equals full blend-in" or "10 equals no blend-in"; and on what taper your pot is. You've already said you've got an A500K, so use the left lug (like the input to a volume pot) in order to get the "10=full blend" with "all-at-one-end turn response" option; the right lug will get you "10=no blend" with "a more even turn response".

Referring to the Fralin diagram, the connections to the blender pot occur at the terminals of the 5-way, but they don't have to be wired there, as long as the pot and the pickup share uninterrupted wires. Probably, it's the most convenient location in the majority of installations because of physical layout.

Will begin working on a diagram.

[Yogi B]

Mar 31, 2024 21:52:06 GMT -5 stevewf said:

As for the Fralin blender hookup, it's quite possible that the pot sold by Fralin for that is uses a reverse audio ("C") taper. That'd mitigate the "all-at-one-end syndrome", but it's not absolutely necessary; you can still use a normal Audio ("A") taper for blending.

Based on their wiring diagram & their suggestion to use the push/pull version as a no-load tone pot, Fralin would seem to be using an A taper.

... each of the pickups involved must have a ground supply in both situations: when it's directly selected, and when its counterpart is selected ...

If this weren't necessary we could have the phase reverse switch affect all the positions: e.g. by swapping the phase of neck pickup in the first three positions & swapping the bridge in the remaining two. I was trying to get that to work, but then realised doing so was irrelevant since it wouldn't work with the blender.

---

This is what I currently have drawn up:

Sw1 is the bridge phase switch, and coil select: the north is selected when in phase, south when OoP (shown in the in phase position);

Sw2 is the coil tap switch (shown in the untapped position);

Sw3 is the 5-way selector, poles a & b do the main switching, pole c swaps which coil of the neck is selected when split (north in position 2, south otherwise), pole d avoids shunting the neck north coil when split in positions 1, 3, 4 & 5.

[stevewf]

Apr 1, 2024 6:06:45 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Based on their wiring diagram & their suggestion to use the push/pull version as a no-load tone pot, Fralin would seem to be using an A taper.

Ah, yes. A "C" taper wouldn't be a very good tone control. Thanks, yogi. Personally, I wouldn't want to have to choose between blending or tone control -- I'd want both at the same time, but at least Fralin is suggesting options.
[edit: and now I see that Fralin chose a "10=no blend", for which an "A" taper is better]

This is what I currently have drawn up:

...Sw3 is the 5-way selector, poles a & b do the main switching, pole c swaps which coil of the neck is selected when split (north in position 2, south otherwise), pole d avoids shunting the neck north coil when split in positions 1, 3, 4 & 5.

Admirable, especially with poles the 5-way's poles c & d. This is the direction I was headed, but yogi's much faster than I.
[Edit: rescinded! Yogi B, I think the design needs a minor tweak to take into account the orientation of the Humbuckers (as we've learned that the the coils are to be physically arranged in a NS S SN pattern, reading from neck to bridge.) ]

---

As an aside, I've been working on getting a wiring diagram to supplement a schematic like yogi's, but I'm in the middle of switching diagraming programs, and there's a learning curve and a lack of pre-built guitar component shapes. On a Mac, there are limited options; there's no Visio available, and most of the programs that are similar cost too much for me. I'm trying to switch from my draw to draw.io now, which is cross-platform, open-source and free... very flexible, but also time-consuming to build components. I hope to figure out a way to share the library of shapes I'm making, but in the meantime, it's slowing my output.

[tommyd2]

Thanks a ton, unreg, stevewf and Yogi B. I had a few questions regarding the diagram yogi's given me so far. First, on the superswitch, I have six spots to hook (assuming outside connecting spot on each pole is the common). If it is the common, is it never used or is it the furthest connecting spot on the inside? Second, this is just confirming but for the switching shown for sw1 and 2, I assume that the 'start' line is the middle lug of the dpdt push-pull pot and the two lines it connects to are the top and bottom lug. Also assuming a. and b. are the left and right sides of the pot. And the green squares mean the wires connect together there? If so, I would have to do a lot of wire splicing and reconnecting, I assume. Finally, I have never read the actual pot diagram for the volume and tone as shown. Looking it up, the left side (before the squiggle) is the left lug, the middle line is the center (sweeper?) lug and the right side is the right lug? By that logic, it appears the middle lug of the blend pot is not used and the right lug of the tone is either not used or grounded? (also on 1 lug of sw3b and blend right lug). Thanks for understanding my incapacity for understanding and poor assumptions. Also not sure where to ground what (on the volume pot or output jack; from bridge?). Thanks again

[stevewf]

Apr 1, 2024 17:17:11 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

Thanks a ton, unreg, stevewf and Yogi B. I had a few questions regarding the diagram yogi's given me so far.

yogi's diagram is a schematic diagram. By contrast, all of the diagrams posted earlier in the thread are wiring diagrams. Let's see if this layman can sum up the difference:
A schematic is meant to show the function of the circuitry divorce or abstracted from the physical layout, so I'll call that a conceptual tool - one that helps think about how it works. Unless one can recognize the components, a schematic can be hard to read.

A wiring diagram shows the physical form of the circuit, and not necessarily how it works, so I'll call that a pattern tool - one that helps see how it should look when all soldered in, and is easy to read. Unless one is familiar with how the components work, though, it can be hard to understand how the circuit works from a wiring diagram.

Now lemme skip to another part of your reply:

And the green squares mean the wires connect together there? If so, I would have to do a lot of wire splicing and reconnecting, I assume.

Here's where a schematic really is divorced from the physical. It looks like wires are spliced, but the lines aren't meant to represent any single particular wire in the circuit. They only mean to show that one or more components are hooked together by the same uninterrupted wire group (network). When there are more than two such components, the circuit has to split or join, and that what the green junction boxes mean. 

For an example, I'll skip again:

Finally, I have never read the actual pot diagram for the volume and tone as shown. Looking it up, the left side (before the squiggle) is the left lug, the middle line is the center (sweeper?) lug and the right side is the right lug? By that logic, it appears the middle lug of the blend pot is not used and the right lug of the tone is either not used or grounded? (also on 1 lug of sw3b and blend right lug).

In the Fralin diagram, the junctions are made at the terminals of the selector switch. That's usually a practical location inside a guitar (between the pickups and the rest of the controls), and with large lugs to facilitate junctions. At the end of the day we see two networks, each with at least three components: first network: Pot_CCW with a 5-Way lug and Neck_Hot. Second network: Pot_Sweeper with a different 5-way lug and Bridge_Hot. A reader can copy this drawing when soldering, but lacking knowledge of how a 5-way works will hamper an understanding the circuit.

In yogi's diagram, those junctions are shown in the middle of the lines. Still, the networks include those three components (and more, since yoig's diagram has a wider scope than the Fralin snippet), and a reader can follow the circuits. I wouldn't copy it for soldering though!

Onward:

First, on the superswitch, I have six spots to hook (assuming outside connecting spot on each pole is the common). If it is the common, is it never used or is it the furthest connecting spot on the inside?

Yes, the outer lugs on each pole of an industry-standard superswitch are the commons. The lugs next to the pole lugs, though vary depending on which pole we're talking about.  Two of the switch's sections go C12345 and the other two go 12345C.

In yogi's diagram, there are also six connection points for each of the 5-way's sections: a central one with an arc of 5 more. Naturally, Common is at the center. All of the sections appear with the same logical layout, unlike in a wiring diagram.

Second, this is just confirming but for the switching shown for sw1 and 2, I assume that the 'start' line is the middle lug of the dpdt push-pull pot and the two lines it connects to are the top and bottom lug. Also assuming a. and b. are the left and right sides of the pot.

Yes, in that way, per yogi's, each of the the DPDT sections is similar to a 5-way's section: a central common with one or more throw positions and their corresponding connection points. That central connection maps to a middle lug of a physical switch. And yes, sw1a refers to one of the sections of a DPDT.

Thanks for understanding my incapacity for understanding and poor assumptions. Also not sure where to ground what (on the volume pot or output jack; from bridge?). Thanks again

It's the members who sincerely wanna learn and share that are the most gratifying to know in this forum. There's been some discussion here about where/how to ground. Some have come up with handy ways. The most common way Ive seen, though, is to run a wire from the jack's sleeve lug and solder it to the back of a pot. Then use the same back of the pot to distribute the grounds, including for the shielding and bridge. With heating up the pot by soldering a lot of wires to it there's a risk of damage, which is one reason ppl have come up with alternatives.

[newey]

Apr 2, 2024 1:40:04 GMT -5 stevewf said:

Two of the switch's sections go C12345 and the other two go 12345C.

stevewf referred to the "Industry Standard" Superswitch. but we should first be sure which type tommyd2 actually has in hand, as there are some variations between types.

Just so we're clear, an Oak Grigsby Superswitch has its lugs as follows

C 12345 12345 C

C 12345 12345 C

[tommyd2]

Correct newey .wasn't sure if the common lugs were used at all in Yogi B 's diagram. Not sure entirely how diag is simplified/adapted from there

[stevewf]

I'm trying to do a wiring diagram, but I'm running into some confusion.

In the first post of the thread, tommyd2 mentions that the Guitar Madness wire color codes are the same as Seymour Duncan's, i.e.:
North Start = Black <=> Hot output
North Finish = White |
South Finish = Red   | White & Red joined for splitting <=> Ground
South Start = Green <=> Ground

In an subsequent post, there's a drawing from Guitar Madness that shows the wire colors from one of their humbuckers:
North Start = Black <=> Ground
North Finish = White |
South Finish = Red   | White & Red joined for splitting <=> Ground
South Start = Green <=> Hot output

Which one should be used for a wiring diagram?

And, what color coding is used for the middle (single coil) pickup? The GM photo looks like there are Red and Black wires; can we operate with the understanding that if all the black wires are connected with ground, the pickups will be in phase?

Sorry to keep coming back with more questions; I really should have been in position to ask all of these at the beginning. This info should be straightened out in order to avoid hum/phasing problems in the design.

[tommyd2]

I believe I said Duncan designed not Seymour Duncan stevewf .Hadn't realized there was confusion. Subtle but prob major difference. Id stick to the color coding that came with the pups tho (even tho I think it's identical to Duncan designed pups). Tested phase when did polarity and all black wire (incl mid) are north grounds

[unreg]

Apr 2, 2024 1:40:04 GMT -5 stevewf said:

Thanks for understanding my incapacity for understanding and poor assumptions. Also not sure where to ground what (on the volume pot or output jack; from bridge?). Thanks again

It's the members who sincerely wanna learn and share that are the most gratifying to know in this forum. There's been some discussion here about where/how to ground. Some have come up with handy ways. The most common way Ive seen, though, is to run a wire from the jack's sleeve lug and solder it to the back of a pot. Then use the same back of the pot to distribute the grounds, including for the shielding and bridge. With heating up the pot by soldering a lot of wires to it there's a risk of damage, which is one reason ppl have come up with alternatives.

That risk of damage means risk of noise added to your guitar signal; damaged pots can be noisy.

An alternative I tried to appropriately use was to utilize a star ground paperclip. I do have a (straightened and cautiously trimmed appropriately) paperclip, newey’s idea presented due to my poor star ground washer buying skills, in my guitar. Made a small loop, using a screwdriver shaft, on one end and screwed that clip into my painted electronic cavity wall. But, I soldered ALL ground wires to the clip before I re-screwed it to that wall; easier soldering when the clip isn’t in my electronic cavity. The paint on the walls transfers the ground to the entire cavity enclosure, which transfers the ground to my enclosure’s cover. My guitar is now quiet, a small tiny bit of noise when my hands aren’t touching the strings; probably because I failed at creating a star ground.

A star ground is supposed to be directly, I believe, connected to jack’s ground. My star ground paper clip receives the jack’s ground from another cavity. But, still, it works extremely well!


EDIT: I forgot to say: It’s super helpful if you bend the paperclip to follow the wall it’s screwed into before any soldering to it AND if you cover it with electrical tape when through soldering, that prevents a stray wire or anything from being grounded accidentally during guitar use.

[stevewf]

Apr 2, 2024 14:52:25 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

I believe I said Duncan designed not Seymour Duncan stevewf .Hadn't realized there was confusion. Subtle but prob major difference. Id stick to the color coding that came with the pups tho (even tho I think it's identical to Duncan designed pups). Tested phase when did polarity and all black wire (incl mid) are north grounds

I'd never heard of Duncan Designed pickups before, so I assumed...      Having now seen them for sale online, I have to think there's a difference. And one that makes me say uh-oh.

... and (HSH) set of Guitar Madness Hexbuckers (4 conductor w/ Duncan Designed style wiring). 

When you say 4-conductor, I hope you mean four conductor plus separate shield. Pretty please?

[tommyd2]

stevewf Yes there is separate uncolored (blank wire) shield. 

[stevewf]

OK, here's a shot at transcribing @yogi's schematic diagram into a wiring diagram, with some small adjustments:

SPOILER: Click to show

Version 2: Corrected the orientation of s3 (5-way switch; it was backwards in the previous version; thanks goodness Yogi B spotted that). As a result, some wires were repositioned on the switch for neatness.

v.2 NEEDS CHECKING again

v.2 NEEDS CHECKING again

The adjustments compared to the schematic include:
- swapped the lugs in the blender pot
- inclusion of the grounding of shielding of the humbucker cables, jack cable, cavity and bridge/strings
- addition of a treble bleed on the volume pot. 

Some notes:
- Swapped blender lugs: the only reason is to make the wiring diagram easier to read, with fewer wires crossing. It should operate the same as in yogi's schematic.

- The shielding of the humbucker cables should be grounded, and usually this is conveniently done by soldering them to the back of the volume pot, which (also usually) acts as the center of a star grounding. CTS Push-Pull pots, though, don't offer a "back of the pot" to solder to, only a side. Your blender pot, however, has a lot of back-of-the-pot real estate; trouble is, it's physically not very central. So if you do ground the cables' shielding at the blender pot, or for that matter, anywhere that is far from the end of the cable's jacket, it would be a good idea to splice them together away from the controls, and run an insulated wire to the star point. Don't leave long bare wires in the cavity - they like to find places to short out on while you're playing. I also shield my jack cable in a strat; I use two-conductor plus shield, and I connect one end of the shielding to the jack sleeve lug, and leave the other end unexposed under the jacket; that way, it's a "spur" on an otherwise star-shaped grounding.

-treble bleeds are popular, and some theoretical and empirical discussion here at GN2 has led me to install one in pretty much every guitar. If you don't know what it does, GN2 can tell you; it's the resistor and capacitor that's between two of the volume pot's lugs in the drawing, and it's optional.

-wire colors. I respected the colors from the pickups; otherwie, I tried to use different colors, hoping it's easier to follow. Of course, if the actualll wires used are to follow all these colors, that's a lot of colored wires to buy; at soldering time, a different/reduced set of colors can be used, even if wires are the same color.

[edit: - bare shielding wire versus insulated wire. insulated grounding wire is shown in the drawing as dark grey; bare wires are light grey. Sorta.]

[Yogi B]

Apr 1, 2024 10:26:29 GMT -5 stevewf said:

as we've learned that the the coils are to be physically arranged in a NS S SN pattern, reading from neck to bridge.

I know you've rescinded the surrounding text, but have we actually learned that? I don't see that tommyd2 has expressed an actual preference anywhere — NS S SN is just the layout as per the ebay product images, there is (almost always) no reason why the humbuckers can't be rotated to give alternating coil colours (which is what I've seen in the vast majority of zebra HSH configurations). Also, if these were regular PAF style humbuckers, the outer coils (screw coils, following the traditional orientation) tend to be south up. But, for me, the kicker is that people generally prefer to split to the inner bridge coil (with the intent of avoiding 'excessive' brittleness) and that would have to be the north coil so as to cancel hum with the south middle when in position 4 (plus, when OoP, middle + bridge outer should result in less cancellation than middle + bridge inner).

Though on the note of the middle pickup...

Apr 2, 2024 14:52:25 GMT -5 tommyd2 said:

Tested phase when did polarity and all black wire (incl mid) are north grounds

I assume you mean to include the middle's black wire as being a ground, but not that it's a north ground (since you've previously said the middle is a south coil).

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Apr 3, 2024 1:03:26 GMT -5 stevewf said:

OK, here's a shot at transcribing @yogi's schematic diagram into a wiring diagram

Looks good with the exception that the direction of S3 is reversed (moving the lever towards the bridge will select the neck, and vice versa).

[stevewf]

Apr 3, 2024 7:21:44 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Apr 3, 2024 1:03:26 GMT -5 stevewf said:

OK, here's a shot at transcribing @yogi's schematic diagram into a wiring diagram

Looks good with the exception that the direction of S3 is reversed (moving the lever towards the bridge will select the neck, and vice versa).

Oopsie!!!! I'll try to fix that quick...
...and in the wiring diagram, I shoulda mentioned it's a transcription from another's work. Comin' up. 

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[Update: now I've replaced the drawing with the lugs numbered and position properly - I think! Link to undated post here - click the spoiler. Trash browser cache?]

[tommyd2]

Thanks so much stevewf, newey, unreg and Yogi B. I'll try this out ASAP, still have a couple parts coming in I forgot earlier, but will string it up and try it out when I get the wiring all finished. One question, when you say cavity shield do you mean to solder to the star (paperclip) ground unreg was talking about? (I will have copper shielding tape in my wiring enclosure as well as under my pups)