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Post by TooManyWires on Sept 20, 2005 20:41:09 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking of this crazy idea. It all started as me trying to figure out ways of getting more sustain out of a guitar, because all I have for wood to mess around with right now is pine, which is not ideal. Anyways, I knew that a strat has a certain bit of added sustain in a way from the springs in the tremolo. But I knew I didn't want to have a tremolo type bridge, because that cuts down on sustain, I wanted to have a tele type bridge, with lots of contact, and mass so that I got more sustain. So, what I came up with was making a semi hollow body, with square chambers, say 3 or 4 of them. And then just stretching 3 or 4 springs from the hardware store across each chamber. I'd build it like a sandwhich: 3 boards, 2 thin, and one thick. Cut the chambers in the thick one and then glue the other two on to the top and bottom of it. It'd look exactly like a standard solid body guitar, except for it would have layers in it like it was laminated in a strange way. It would also make pickup routing significantly easier. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I really don't know if that would help give more sustain, and I'm not home now to be able to even start to try this out and see if there's any possible potential merit in it. So it's really just a purely hypothetical idea to toss around. Anyone got any thoughts on that?
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 21, 2005 10:33:31 GMT -5
oh man, sounds like somebody else has got the crazy ideas rattling around in his brain. finally some company.
lets get this straight, you want the "built in reverb" from the strat trem springs, but you don't want the strat bridge. you hypothesize that the chambering and springs will give you more sustain. you also suppose that the more metal and mass in the bridge will give you better sustain.
I'm only guessing here, but i think that acoustically the chambers and springs will be louder, but when you think about it, won't converting more string energy into sound actually lessen the sustain? the resonances in the springs and the thin wood overlays could make for some interesting tone shaping by moving the pickups in relationship to the strings, as well as how they affect the bridge and in turn the strings.
one thing i do like about the strat bridge is how sharply the strings change direction at the bridge. couldn't say if a tele bridge would have better sustain than a fixed strat bridge, if both were on the same kind of body.
metal and lots of it, sounds like a good idea, especially if its thick. hey why not make the sandwich out of aluminum and tig weld it together :lol:
seriously though, if you're gonna do the spring thing, consider having lots of springs in each chamber. having a gradient of lengths, and/or diameter, and/or tension would be desirable. were it up to me, I'd use steel -- not brass or stainless.
if alignment is hyper-critical you could use dowels or pins as alignment devices. if not get the meat to the exact shape you want with the bread being just a little oversized. the key to assembly would be to use a slow curing adhesive (fish glue?) and a large flat press to squeeze things together during the curing time.
as long as you make the bread a little larger than the meat, after laminating, you could use a roundover bit with a bearing on it to rout a smooth transition from the bread to the meat. the bearing follows the outline of the meat very well, so you only have to be concerned with keeping the router and bread together flat.
well, so much for my thoughts. maybe we have a luthier or someone who does cabinet work that could give some better advice?
U.M.
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Post by erikh on Sept 21, 2005 13:21:53 GMT -5
Been a while since I've posted but this is interesting. You can get pretty decent sustain out of pine. I did it back when I first started playing. It was a strat/sg shape with a bolt-on neck, one pickup, TOM bridge and tailpiece. Really good sustain actually. Ugly as sin but played nice. Remember, the first Tele that Leo built was pine.
The springs in a Strat have very little to do with sustain actually. On trem-equipped Strats, the trem block has more to do with it than anything. There were some that had really small trem blocks and some had larger ones. The 60's Strats had probably the perfect trem block. Leave the baby a solid hunk of wood with a Tele bridge or wraparound bridge and it'll sustain just fine.
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Post by TooManyWires on Sept 21, 2005 21:41:51 GMT -5
Erik H. : "You can get pretty decent sustain out of pine."
This is probably true...I haven't yet finished my first project, so I really don't know. This idea wouldn't be happening until I finish the first one anyway. But I can tell just by holding it up that the pine body I made (even with it's pine neck) is significantly lighter than say, a round topped mahogany Les Paul. Also significantly softer. So I'd have to finish it to tell for sure. But now I'm just intersted in this idea, simply because it's intrigued me. Even if it didn't add sustain, it certainly might have interesting acoustic properties.
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Post by RandomHero on Sept 22, 2005 12:50:42 GMT -5
Idea: put a small, specialty pickup to that mounted spring and add it into the signal chain with a switch. ...a -guitar- with built in spring reverb!? Holy patent office, Batman!
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Post by erikh on Sept 22, 2005 13:57:46 GMT -5
It is definitely an interesting project and I'm interesting hearing the results. This could be something new that could be done to chambered solid bodies, or just a new type of chambered solid body. Try different weights of trem springs, mix and match and such. Sounds like a fun project, once it's all put together. ;D
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 22, 2005 14:40:32 GMT -5
..........seriously though, if you're gonna do the spring thing, consider having lots of springs in each chamber. having a gradient of lengths, and/or diameter, and/or tension would be desirable. were it up to me, I'd use steel -- not brass or stainless... Idea: put a small, specialty pickup to that mounted spring and add it into the signal chain with a switch. ...a -guitar- with built in spring reverb!? Holy patent office, Batman! Okay R.H. i guess you figured out why i would use steel instead of brass or stainless. I was wondering if someone would "pick up" :ROFL: on this even as cryptic as is was. Nothin' seems to slip by you. U.M. |
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Post by RandomHero on Sept 22, 2005 15:18:41 GMT -5
Nothin' seems to slip by you. It may seem that way, but chances are much more likely that I just run headlong into everything on my way from A to B. XD So, with this sort of thing in mind, maybe it would do you some good to investigate the spring tanks of spring reverb circuits? Are you thinking one spring for the pupped version, or a chorus of them? If I hear right, in every Strat I play, the distant tremolo spring noise is snagged through the bottom of the pickups; maybe you could just try putting an inverted pickup (perhaps with rail polepieces for better response to the strings) under the pickguard of a strat, facing behind the little wood chunk? If my brain for physics works right, you'll get the best response from the springs if they're anchored somehow to the strings, which in a Strat is already set... the only thing that makes me wonder if the noises it would make for whammy work. |
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 22, 2005 21:29:13 GMT -5
Definitely a chorus of springs. just one would have a limited spectrum of frequencies that it favored, so many dissimilar springs or tensions is what i envisioned.
coupling through the string ends or the bridge would be most efficient, but on any body thats "live" there would be plenty of energy to drive them. a solid 'Paul is quite quiet (thats one reason they sustain so well), but if you put big routs in one, it too would likely be live enough to provide some energy for the springs.
if you want to get an idea how much rockin the whammy would introduce noise into the "reverb", with your amp off, chunk a hard cord then mute it. the springs sing loud. when you rock the whammy, how much do you hear?
my strat's pickups don't seem to get any of that distant reverb. i though they did, but did some testing and found that it's just the acoustic sound i was hearing. it was so loud that i just assumed it was coming through the amp.
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Post by TooManyWires on Sept 28, 2005 17:32:50 GMT -5
So maybe you could have this multitude of springs all screwed into the wood of the guitar at one end, and then on the other end, you could have them hook onto some kind of plate with claws in it just as they attatch in a standard strat trem. Then you could mount some kind of piezo pickup to the plate that the springs hook to. The same kind of pickup that you'd use on the inside of an acoustic guitar. Would that pick up too much of the guitar sound, or would it get mostly the springs? I have no idea, I've never done any work with piezo. Is that the kind of thing that yous guys were thinking of?
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Post by UnklMickey on Sept 28, 2005 17:48:30 GMT -5
well, i can't speak for R.H. but that's pretty much what i had in mind for the springs.
piezo would probably pick up some acoustic sound directly from the body, and that might be nice too. if it were sandwiched between the plate and the wood, it would probably still get lots of sound from the springs.
using iron springs and a magnetic pickup would certainly have a higher concentration of the spring sound. i'm not at all certain which one would be more desirable.
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Post by eljib on Nov 16, 2005 14:28:20 GMT -5
You could just incoporate the two previous ideas (both of which I think have merit and would offer their own tonal qualities) and then run 'em through a switch to get any combination you wanted.
It would be cool to hear what it would sound like if you cut the signal from the strings, and the only thing going to the amp came from the springs.
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Post by pollyshero on Nov 16, 2005 18:10:35 GMT -5
I have an old article on how to build a "Reverbitar" - A Strat style with an extended spring cavity, longer trem springs & a plain ol' single coil mounted under them. I tried to get the link I got it from, but the page is down.
There's a parts & tools list, schematic, & pics. The pics are low quality 'cause when I printed it the ink cartridge in the printer was emptying out, but the text is fine & you can see everything just fine.
It's pretty interesting. I printed this thing in '96 & it's been laying in a drawer ever since. If anyone's interested I'll scan it & email to whoever wants a copy.
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Post by TooManyWires on Nov 17, 2005 21:55:01 GMT -5
Sure thing, I'd love to see that.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Nov 17, 2005 23:10:24 GMT -5
I have an old article on how to build a "Reverbitar" - A Strat style with an extended spring cavity, longer trem springs & a plain ol' single coil mounted under them. I tried to get the link I got it from, but the page is down. I went Googling for that. They came up with about 175 pages containing "Reverbitar" in English, but they all seem to be sites with links to other sites which were on either mv.com ("404") or minimal.com ("domain for sale"). I was hoping Google might have the original cached, but NO-O-O-O-O. {/John Belushi-Steve Martin mode} Ya gotta love something that says "build a $20 electric guitar out of a 2X4."  -- Doug C. |
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