is their a down side to larger frets?

[jdl]

Hey guys;

Lately I've been thinking of some things i'd like to do to tweak my strat. The first thing is to make the neck pu work, but that question is already in the electronics forum! the next thing i would like to do is get it re-fretted with larger frets. I know that it helps with bends, but I was wondering if their was a down side to them. Also, are their any more good things about large frets? if it helps, I play blues, and i have mim strat with texas specials, and a maple neck/fretboard.

James

[RandomHero]

In my opinion, the bigger frets you have, the better. Extra jumbo style gives a guitar an almost scalloped feel, so your fingers are riding nothing but string... one downside I can think of is that it's much easier to bend strings sharp from overly much pressure with larger frets, but by the same token, they also open up the option of intentionally bending and adding vibrato to your nates in that style instead of your traditional bend.

[jdl]

hmm;
So what your saying is that you can accidentaly make a "regular" note sharp by pushing down too hard?
Another question, are larger frets taller or wider than regular frets, or both?

James

[jester700]

Yes, you can more easily push notes sharp just from pressure on big frets.

Frets differ. There are "tall & narrow" that are no wider than mediums, and "jumbos" that are wider. Check out the frets section at warmoth.com or other neck maker for some basic comparisons.

As for feel, IMO it depends on playing style. When I'm using a light touch for jazzy runs or scale practice, I don't feel much difference between my med. fret and big fret necks, because I don't press hard enough to touch wood even on the mediums. When I'm "digging in" on blues the difference is much more apparent.

[jdl]

ok, so for my style of playing, blues, what size would work best. I'm pretty sure that my mim strat has stock frets, whatever size that may be. Also, i think i use quite a bit of pressure on the frets when im playing, and i use alot of bends and vibrato. Im thinking 6130 size or the stainless steel 6105 (the warmoth site says that stainless makes bends easier). also, im not sure if this matters but, i keep my strat tuned a half step or a full step down, depending on what i want to play, and i use an 11-52 set of strings(dean markeley mthb i think). Thanks for your advice guys.

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

jdl said:

also, im not sure if this matters but, i keep my strat tuned a half step or a full step down, depending on what i want to play, and i use an 11-52 set of strings(dean markeley mthb i think).

Hmm, not quite "SRV gauge," but heavier than E.C. or Jimi uses/used. (Just glancing through The Way They Play: The Blues-Rock Masters, Backbeat Books/Hal Leonard 331011.) Stevie was also into jumbo frets, and was usually tuned down a half-step.
With jumbo frets, if sometime down the road you switch to light gauge strings and your frets are very high, you could have a problem with "scalloping." Not the on-purpose, Ritchie Blackmore Strat kind, but like the other guys mentioned above, where it changes pitch as you press harder.
(This page tells how to test for scalloping, but I couldn't get at the server. Had to view Google's cache of it. www.gregsguitar.com/make_easier.html)

Another school of thought is that smaller frets will let you lower the action more, and make your guitar "faster." Looks like you've already had a look at Warmoth's page, where they mention that wider frets will wear longer.

I'd say, as long as you're going to use 11's or heavier, and keep doing those bends, go big. {Just this one reader's opinion.}

[jdl]

cool, yea i dont plan on putting lighter strings on my strat, it seems to be more suited for a heavier gauge. Im thinking maybe the stainless steel 6105 would be a good choice.
Has anyone here had any experience with stainless steel frets? if so i'd love to hear some feedback for them.

James

[eljib]

I've heard realy bad things about stainless frets as far as tone goes. They're supposed to be really brassy, and way too bright. If you use a lot of pressure then you'll end up sawing your strings in half when you bend on anything tall & narrow. And you'll go sharp when chording, too. I squeeze pretty hard, too and I like wide, tall frets because they're great for bending and they can be recrowned after I grind down all of the sweet spots in the key of A.

[jdl]

o good to know eljib. well i guess i guess i'll stick with standard wire. I'm thinking 6150 or 6130. I think the 6130 might be best. That way i still have the choice to go to a lighter guage, and lower the action.

[pollyshero]

One way you might try different fret sizes is to actually try different necks - There's lots of necks that'll fit your Strat on eBay you can pick up for less than retail. If you've got a little dough you can part with for a while - get a neck with the size fret you want to try. If you like it, get your Strat's re-fretted while it's already off. When you switch back you can unload the "off-brand" neck on eBay again - probably for as musch as you paid, or only a minimal loss.

Just a thought.

Good luck

[jester700]

I LOVE stainless frets. They might be SLIGHTLY brighter, but not much. I mean, I didn't notice any difference when I swapped to an identical neck except with stainless frets on my main guitar. So, if there's a difference, it's small, IMO. And I don't saw through strings. I've had the same set on for a month and they sound & feel fine. If you have to change them a little sooner, that's fine with me; I'll save on refrets and they play SO smooth!

I will never get another neck with nickel frets. Please do yourself a favor and go PLAY on them before making a decision based on hearsay. Or based on hearsay that itself is based on hearsay!

[Runewalker]

I have modern jumbos, old style jumbos (Gibby;s which are in modern terms medium, or med-jumbo), and vintage thin wire types.

I like the jumbos, but they can be distinctly notchy when sliding. Part of that is I have dressed my LPs frets so many times because of uneven heights through playing, that those frets are quite low, even though they are old style 'jumbos.'

What happens then on that guitar is that the action can be set very low and you get used to really gripping the notes. So it is a very meaty relationship with the guitar and notes.

However, I have to completely adjust and go to a lighter touch on the modern jumbos or I have shapening issues by taking the string to the board. Some of the jumbos are noticably tall ... real logs.

I think I hear a more solid tone from the strings when touching the fretboard, than when lightly touching the jumbo frets.

So it gets down to a different relationship to the fretboard and a different touch. If you play a lot of guitars in your harem there are a few minutes of joggling to adapt to the different feel. Not a huge issue, but there is a reason that some guitarists get locked into a single guitar.

On your question of metalurgy. Those jumbos have so much meat they can take a number of dressing and crowning operations. Luthiers don't care much for SS because it is hard to work with. If you are satuation overdriving on your playing you won't notice any brightness differences. If they are distinct they will be so in clean settings and playing.

[Cenulab]

Playing with a lighter touch has a lot of benefits no matter what fret size you have:

-Less hand fatigue
-increased speed
-Less fret wear
-chords more in-tune

When we first learn to play (especially as young'ns) we have to press down about as hard as we can to get the notes to ring clearly (remember the first time you attempted that simple F chord?) but as we get stronger I think the majority of us don't realize that eventually we are pressing down much harder than we need to. It wasn't until I took some lessons years later from a pro who pointed this out to me and helped break me of the habit that I realized this fact.

That's my experience, anyway.

Oh- I like those big frets. Lighten up ;D.

-Cen

[jdl]

wow guys, thanks for all the good info. I didn't expect this much!!! I would like to try out a bunch of different sizes first, but my problem is that I don't have much cash(i'm a student), and I live in a fairly small community. But, if someone could make a few suggestions of specific guitar models that have different size frets, it would give me something to look for when i make a trip to a bigger guitar store. For example, the Fender SRV Strat has big frets, or a standard LP has such and such a size. This would help me out greatly!

James

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

jdl said:

But, if someone could make a few suggestions of specific guitar models that have different size frets, it would give me something to look for when i make a trip to a bigger guitar store. For example, the Fender SRV Strat has big frets, or a standard LP has such and such a size. This would help me out greatly!

Keep in mind, though, that in trying different makes and models, you will probably encounter different neck widths and radii. It might be that a certain type of fret feels good to you, but other characteristics of the particular neck are "things that make you go 'yuck'."
And I just noticed that my Memphis LP copy could stand a fret job, along with all the other stuff. (I'm sure I'd have caught on to that before too long, but thanks, James.)

[eljib]

jester700 said:

I LOVE stainless frets. They might be SLIGHTLY brighter, but not much. I mean, I didn't notice any difference when I swapped to an identical neck except with stainless frets on my main guitar. So, if there's a difference, it's small, IMO. And I don't saw through strings. I've had the same set on for a month and they sound & feel fine. If you have to change them a little sooner, that's fine with me; I'll save on refrets and they play SO smooth!

I'm glad to hear your opinion, jester. Actually, the negative remarks both came from luthiers (so I figured I could trust their opinion when it came to components & tone). But to them it is a business and it is easy for me to see how they might try to persuade others away from stainless if it means harder work for them. Especially if those stainless frets tear up tools like I expect they would.

[jester700]

jdl said:

But, if someone could make a few suggestions of specific guitar models that have different size frets, it would give me something to look for when i make a trip to a bigger guitar store. For example, the Fender SRV Strat has big frets, or a standard LP has such and such a size. This would help me out greatly!

James

This is a pretty big question, because there are SO many versions! Les Pauls are "medium jumbos", but by today's standards are fairly low (though still wide). Fender "classic" types will be thin & medium in height.

Jackson & Ibanez models (Jackson Dinky & Soloist, Ibanez RG) with floyd bars will usually have the BIG frets - jumbos. But they make other, more "classic" models too, so there will be other fret sizes there.

The best bet is to spend some time on various makers' web sites before shopping and look up various specific models. They usually list details like fret size.

[jester700]

eljib said:

Actually, the negative remarks both came from luthiers (so I figured I could trust their opinion when it came to components & tone). But to them it is a business and it is easy for me to see how they might try to persuade others away from stainless if it means harder work for them. Especially if those stainless frets tear up tools like I expect they would.

It may not be that (though sometimes it MAY be...). Many guitar people are staunch traditionalists; look at how many people still insist on a 50 year old guitar design! They'll justify skepticism of new things many ways, but TONE usually comes up, despite the fact that nobody can agree on what effects it and to what degree. Anyway, as with everything in the guitar world, it's best to get your hands on it yourself and see if it blows your skirt up... ;-)

[jdl]

good advice jester. I guess i just have to keep trying different guitars out until i find a neck/fret combo that i like, and then hope that it will work well with my current axe.

James

[bam]

Sorry for being late, but..

Playing with a lighter touch has a lot of benefits no matter what fret size you have:

-Less hand fatigue
-increased speed
-Less fret wear
-chords more in-tune

that's exactly what my ol' guitar guru taught. use the lightest touch as possible. in that case, I'd daresay, "fret size doesn't matter".

and about TONEFRETS .. well .. I think I'm not that "geeky" - frets make less than 1% of your tone, IMHO.

[Ripper]

Fender says my frets are vintage style...im installing 6105's Im hoping this will feel more comfy as I feel nothing but wood under my fingers when I bend...not good.

[Ripper]

I just took in my MIM Strat, which by the way Fender says has vintage frets, and im having Dunlop 6105's put on the entire neck. Itll take a few weeks to get it back but ill keep you posted on how they feel. btw..I also wanted stainless steel.