i'm losing my mind!!!!!!

[jdl]

Hey;

Now that i have your attention, i'm having a problem with my acoustic. On the high e string on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd frets the string is dead. it seems to be the worst on the 2nd fret. i am fairly sure that it isn't fret buzz, because when i play it it sounds like strumming a completely de-tuned string. i have no idea what is going on, and i would rather not drive an hour to the store that i bought it from to get it looked at.

thanks
james

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

I just decided there are too many possible "lost mind" gags to throw in here, so I'll just ask if you've ever noticed a pinging sound when tuning it. Or the pitch doesn't seem to change as you turn that tuning key, then it suddenly kinda "snaps" to a new pitch?

[jdl]

hey mini

I haven't noticed either of those problems. Their might be a bit of ping while tuning, but im not sure if it is a bad ping or not.

james

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

Not necessarily a "bad" ping, but just something that none of the other strings do. What I'm getting at is, if there's something binding in the nut, it may be keeping the string from vibrating properly, causing that kinda "dead" tone. That might also snag the string while the tuner is trying to pull it, holding it at one pitch until it suddenly pops free. That's when you might notice a "ping" or "tink!" sound.
There are other possibilities, but work through a checklist for the best results in tracking it down.
Go to www.frets.com/FRETSPages/OwnerManual/manssguitar.html
and check the section on "Buzz Diagnosis." It also has info on diagnosing a dull tone.
If you have a capo, you might try it on those three frets and see if it makes any difference.

[jdl]

wow that is an incredibly in-depth link mini, thanks. I'm gonna try out a few possibilities from that site.

thanks for the help;
james

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

Okay. Drop a note back here when you get it resolved.

[jdl]

well i haven't found the problem yet. I checked the saddle to see if it was low, i checked to see if the string itself was "dented", i looked at the nut to see if something was binding the string, i popped the string out and checked the windings-once i put it back in and tuned it the noise seemed to only happen at the second fret.

After reading that site i would describe the sound as "sitar like". So, i'm out of ideas. It could be fret buzz, but I really think it is something else. Its a brand new guitar as well which adds to the frustration. Should i give up and have it looked at, or should i keep trying to fix it?

James

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

jdl said:

Its a brand new guitar as well which adds to the frustration. Should i give up and have it looked at, or should i keep trying to fix it?

It looks to me like you've been pretty thorough in looking at the possible causes. If a drop (just a drop) of one of the lubricants Frets.com suggests on the nut slot doesn't do it, then it might be time to take it back to the shop.
If only guitars came with a five year/50,000 note warranty, right?

[jdl]

lol;
I can't seem to find the info on lubricants on the page. Could you point me in the right direction?
Luckily this guitar is only 2 months old and it does have a warranty. I just don't want to wait a long time before i get it back, as i'm leaving soon for my summer job.

James

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

jdl said:

lol;
I can't seem to find the info on lubricants on the page. Could you point me in the right direction?

I was thinking I'd seen substances other than graphite mentioned, but I didn't find that section when I searched for it.
But if you check his FAQs, www.frets.com/FRETSPages/General/faq.html, the section "My guitar won't stay in tune - what can I do?" mentions using a little graphite from a sharp pencil. There are also some commercial preparations available, like "Big Bends Nut Sauce Tuning Lubricant" or "Lizard Spit Slick Nutz Nut Slot Lubricant." (I am not making this up. )

[jdl]

hahahah yea some of those product names are great! I'll try the graphite, and let you know what happens.

thanks
james

[dunkelfalke]

maybe you just try to replace your nut with a graphtech one?

[dunkelfalke]

ministratmaine said:

There are also some commercial preparations available, like "Big Bends Nut Sauce Tuning Lubricant" or "Lizard Spit Slick Nutz Nut Slot Lubricant." (I am not making this up. )

that's nothing, check this out:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7375039568

[jdl]

well, the graphite didnt seem to help. I thought of a few possible causes that I would like to run by you.
1. I live in an old house that has a lot of temperature fluctuations. Could this have anything to do with my problem?
2. I first noticed the problem after i changed my tuning back to standard tuning from a whole step down. Could this be a cause?

James

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

dunkelfalke said:

maybe you just try to replace your nut with a graphtech one?

Yeah, that would most likely involve a trip to the shop (maybe James would atttempt it himself; I might try it myself some day), but it would pretty much cure any problems relating to the nut binding.
I had one put on my Memphis LP copy, and while that's still a work in progress, the "String Saver" saddles and nut seem to help keep it in tune, even after fiddling with the Bigsby. I think there's a little more sustain to it, too.
I've got Graph-Tech sets waiting to go on my Johnson JS-050 and Squier "Bullet Special" some day.

[dunkelfalke]

oh come on. i have changed the nut on my strat to an earvana in about two minutes (the procedure destroyed the old nut though). it is not a big deal, just the matter of some violence and some glue

also exchanged my .9 roller nut with a .10 roller nut
also two minutes and a bit of glue stain on the head

but it is not because nut changing is difficult, it is because i lack accuracy in everything i do

[jdl]

currently it has a tusq nut.

james

[Runewalker]

I don't think I am clear on the symptom. I read "dead spot" and then "sitar like."

If sitar like, a sort of fly wing buzzing, I have seen that a number of time on those first 1-3 frets from nut string cuts that are too low. I have also seen it when one of those frets are to high or an adjacent one too low, such that when the note is freted the fret next in line towards the bridge catches a portion of the string occilation and creates the Ravi Shankar effect.

Nut-cuts too low. Man that sounds bad. Erlewine and the guy at frets.com both like to stuff the cut with bakeing soda, then place a drop of super glue in the stuffed groove (that doesn't sound too good either). Then they merely re-cut the string groove.

I have used powder sanded from corian for the same effect. The issue on both of these approaches is having the tools to cut the grooves. Most players don't. If it is a high e to g you can get by with an Xacto saw, but that leaves a little snaggy groove.

Another alternative I have used and never seen anywhere, but works is to use very small slivers of construction paper, or even newsprint --- something that is a bit absorbtive - lay the sliver in the groove, press in with a snatch of the same size guitar string --- drop a drop of superglue, for while wet with the snatoh of string. Let dry then polish with string. Test the buzz. If it is gone stop, if not repeat, layer by layer until the buzz disappears.

Depends on the brand and expense of a guitar. You hope anything over $350 is properly fret leveled, fret crowned and action adjusted. But not so much any more, even on expensive instruments.


I have also seen buzzing where a neck need truss rod adjustment, but not like yours, so near the nut.

I don't understand the "dead spots" symptom description.

Good luck.

[jdl]

Hey Rune;
Sorry about the double description of the problem. I can't seem to accurately describe it. However, I'll settle with the sitar like sound and try and re-describe the problem.

On the second fret of the high e string their is a sitar like sound coming out. The problem is also noticiable on the first and third frets, but it is the worst on the 2nd. I've tried to pinpoint the problem, and i have listed the tried solutions in a previous post.

The guitar is a 2 month old Simon and Patrick sp 6. These are usually good quality guitars, and are made in Canada. Here is a link to the website for it www.simonandpatrick.com/sunburstseries.htm

Could the frets become unlevel due to changes in temperature, or humidity?

Thanks for the help guys;
James

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

dunkelfalke said:

oh come on. i have changed the nut on my strat to an earvana in about two minutes (the procedure destroyed the old nut though). it is not a big deal, just the matter of some violence and some glue

Violins? This is GuitarNuts!
What? Violence? Oh; that's very different. Never mind. {/Emily Litella mode}

but it is not because nut changing is difficult,

I don't dispute that, but it's just something I don't really want to try on my own until I've seen it done once. (Plus, nobody would ever mistake me for a luthier, although I've outgrown the "get a bigger hammer" stage. ;D ) While I could probably do it "no sweat" by following the steps in my copy of Dan Erlewine's book, it's just easier (if a little more expensive) to have someone with more experience do it.
The nut that was on my Memphis when I got it was apparently replaced at least once, and it was in there "off kilter." I suspected somebody hadn't gotten all the old glue out of the slot, and the guy who did the work for me confirmed that.

I'm gonna go check out the Guitar Pro tab of "Highway Song" that I just printed out, and let Dr. Runewalker take a shot at diagnosing this.

[Runewalker]

jdl


So it does not happen when freting the e at fret 1 positiion (f)?

It happens on 2 and 3 but not 4 correct?

If so this sound similar to a friend of mines with a RG 470. One also that did not have the problem but developed it over time.

Try one of those small straight edges you can get at Ace hardware, Home depot, etc. they are 6" X 1/2" and handy (and cheap) to help in assessing fret levels. see if when moving the straight edge over the 1st to 4th if you get any miniscule rocking.

Unless your eyes are really good, these small dimensions are difficult to see. I ended up going to the Walgreens and getting the highest power reading glasses for this kind of work. They are usless for reading but great for expanding the field and making small assessments visible. Be aware the focal length is fixed and rather unforgiving.

if you detect rocking you have a high fret. A low fret is a little harder to detect since you mostly have to see the gap between the straight edge and low fret. good lighting is essential.

The fix? High frets are easier as you can gently file or even use sandpaper to lower and recrown the fret. I do use a recrowning tool and they are great in my book, but a lot of old style luthiers use simple trianangular files and simply shape the crown by hand. Note to protect the fingerboard with masking tape, even 2 layers.

This is what I did to the Ibanez before I had the 'proper' tool, just using folded pieces of 150, 240 and 400 grit sand paper. Worked like a charm, but the sand paper is not the greatest re-crowning tool.

Lower ones are more difficult as you would need to re-level several of the adjacent ones or even the whole board if it is bad.

Yes, new guitars settle in and changes in humidity, wood shrinkage, even fret springiness can cause shifts.

IF it is underwarrenty by all means have if serviced. Just try to speak directly to the luthier to find out what his appoach is.

I have bought several seconds on eBay where it is claimed the guitar is warped or high spotted in the wood and all it required was a leveling and recrowning.

That is probably a $125 luther service + or -.

Or you could just learn some Indian Rajas.

RW

[jdl]

well, i can't find any indian raja tabs......and it doesn't look like the frets are to blame. Are there any other possibilities?

james

[Runewalker]

jdl


So it does not happen when freting the e at fret 1 positiion (f)?

It happens on 2 and 3 but not 4 correct?

[jdl]

happens on the first as well. The second fret is the worst, it is also noticeable on the first and third. Only on the high e string.

p.s. sorry for the confusion

[Runewalker]

Consider the nut slot of the e string. It sounds like it needs to be raised a smidge.

[jdl]

hmmm;

raising the nut slot is prolly out of my skill range at the moment. I guess i'll have to take her in to the shop. :(hmmm;

james

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

runewalker said:

Nut-cuts too low. Man that sounds bad. Erlewine and the guy at frets.com both like to stuff the cut with bakeing soda, then place a drop of super glue in the stuffed groove (that doesn't sound too good either). Then they merely re-cut the string groove.

Baking soda makes a good "kicker" for cyanoacrylate. (Its generic name. "CA" is way easier to say than "methyl-2-cyanoacrylate." But "Superglue" is one of those tradenames that kinda "went generic," like Kleenex.)
Anyway, for small gaps like that, CA and baking soda work well, and can even be sanded. Woodworkers (and model railroaders) have been using the trick for awhile.

[jdl]

if i do this mini, will it void my warranty at all? Because i know i do have one.

james

[UnklMickey]

jdl said:

if i do this mini, will it void my warranty at all? Because i know i do have one.

james

probably!


i'm not certain the nut is the problem. there are other possibilities too.

RandomHero had a similar problem with an acoustic that turned out to be something vibrating under the bridge.

could be the frets aren't crowned properly under the e on frets 1,2,3.

could be the fourth fret is too high.


if you do have a warranty, it would probably be worth the drive. might turn out to be something really hideous, like something separating inside.


without a warranty, it would make more sense to try some things on your own first.


unk


EDIT:

try tuning the e to d instead.
if the problem moves to the 4th fret, it's not fret related.
if it stays at the 2nd it is.

[mlrpa]

Here's a few tests, and possible solutions.
1) Take a capo, and capo the first fret. If the buzz/dead spots are still there, loosen the truss rod a TOUCH. (Just enough to hear that "creak". Wait a bit, and try it again.

2) Take a thin piece of pper, and place it in the nut slot. If the problem disappears, fill and recut the nut as shown above.

3) Capo the strings BEHIND the nut. It could be that the cut in the nut is at a bad angle. If it disappears, fill and recut. (Or add a string tree.)

4) And now the obvious one. Replace the string. Yeah, stupid, I know, but I was working on a BC Rich Virgin that the 12th fret harmonic was sounding at the 13th and a 1/2 fret. Drove me nuts until I replaced the string. (A weird bend I never saw was causing the problem.)