neck problems

[flateric]

I got a cheap but nice maple neck (strat copy) off ebay for a partscaster project. THe action is not good at all, there's a really bad buzz across all strings on the 6th, 16th and 19th frets, and not too much left I can file off to level the frets without flatting all the fret tops.
Is it possible to pull a couple of frets up a little, to lift them slightly to try and get rid of the buzz? The neck itself looks dead flat, no bow or relief under tension.

[sumgai]

Eric,

Those frets are probably good, you need to check the next fret up in each case. I'll bet they popped up a bit during shipping - cold, hot, cold again, hot again, you know the drill.

If you're unsure of just how much you can safely file off the top of a fret, seek professional help. Perhaps they can be pounded back down into the neck, but once they've broken the glue joint, I wouldn't trust them to remain stable. Again, your best bet is to let a pro look at it.


sumgai

[flateric]

I can see using the straight edge from a steel rule, that 90% of the frets are fine, its just 3 or 4 that are lower. The frets that are fine have not popped up, you can see that from the fretboard join. I was thinking of pulling the low frets, filling some of the slot with a mix of cyanoacrylate 'super-glue' and wood dust, and re-bedding the fret in to try to solve the problem.

[pollyshero]

If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not just replace the low frets entirely? You'll still have to file to the correct height and re-crown, but it'll only be on those 3 or 4.

[flateric]

this is the best course of action I think, as you say, pollys. Only now I need to find exactly the right type/size of fret to buy, something I've not dabbled with before.

[Runewalker]

and not too much left I can file off to level the frets without flatting all the fret tops.

This is a used neck? Are the frets worn from playing so much there is little fret left, or have they been leveled such that little fret body is left up and down the neck? In other words, is the lack of fret 'meat' a uniform deficit or more pronounced in positions that get more fret action when playing (2nd, 3rd, 5th etc)?

If they are in deficit from play wear, then replacing the low frets and re-leveling those may not solve your prob.

If there is a chance the entire fret unit will take a whole fretboard leveling and re-crowning that adjusts the entire fret plane down to the frets you identified as too low, that may solve your problem.

Many ebay necks, while bargains, have simply not received their final leveling, crowning and polishing. And in those necks you actually expect high and low frets that are standard byproducts of manufacturing. I run across this frequently and is the price we pay for buying inexpensively.

However, re-leveling, crowning and polishing are really common sense procedures, and there are a number of different methods. Some use files to level, some use sanding blocks. Some use expensive crowning files, some just us inexpensive triangular files for crowning.

There are a number of sites addressing this procedure, some better than others. Here are some examples (not to be confused with me advocating or approving any of these approaches). As you can see there are multiple ways to accomplish this. And even if you stick with a partial fret replace this step is still critical.

If you plan on many builds or customizations this is an indispensible skill. Luthiers typically charge $100-150 for uncomplicated leveling, crowning and polishing. More for necks that need partial fret replacement or that have binding, or stainless frets.


webpages.charter.net/bricli/EasyAction/levlfrts.html

www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/Fretting3.htm

pweb.jps.net/~kmatsu/htmlpages/toolshtmlpages/fretfile.html

www.harpamps.com/micKguitars/Fret-Dressing.html

www.acmeguitarworks.com/webpage.aspx?webpage_id=5

mywebpages.comcast.net/skgs/sk/fretcrowning.htm

www.stevesguitarsite.com/FRETLEVEL&CROWN.HTML

[mlrpa]

Ummm, Has anyone thought about the truss rod? The 6th and 16th frets sound like the truss rod needs a tweak. the 19th, a gentle file will work. IF the neck is straight, then file the entire fretboard, and recrown the frets. A couple of hours of work. Delicate work, but not that bad.

[Runewalker]

I'm with Mirpa. Food point -- First the truss rod. Then if that does not work, a complete leveling, crowning and polishing. Like he says, delicacy and care, but nothing hard about it.

Of course you will have to back off the truss rod nut to re-estalish a flat plane with the strings slacked. Read through the links, a lot of good approaches.

RW

[pollyshero]

runewalker said:

..Food point... RW

LOL - Typo? or BBQ on your mind?

Eric,

Rune and mlrpa both make excellent points. Instead of focusing on the 3 or 4 low frets, take a good look at the entire neck and re-evaluate.

If you're certain that all the frets are in good shape except for the few, I'd examine just how low they are in relation to the majority. If your looking at measurements of 1/32 of an inch or less, it might be worth levelling ALL of them.
Yes, this will result in some flattening of the tops - it's expected, and you'll have to re-crown them with a triangle file or fret-crowning file.

Dont forget the fretboard & the importance of proper relief (obtained by judicious adjustment of the truss rod).

The links Rune put up are excellent info. Just keep in mind that this is a can of worms for the uninitiated, but what the hey - BE BOLD - go for it!

As for simply replacing the few low frets - you may have to dole out a few bucks on fret wire before you find a suitable replacement (if there's a guitar tech in the neighborhood, see if you can wheedle a few snippets for comparison before you lay out any cash).

Good luck

[flateric]

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. I'll have a little play with the truss rod and re-examine all the fret heights. The frets are not worn, it's just a cheap chinese strat copy neck from ebay, but you gotta start somewhere! Can a decent job turn a cheap neck into a great player or am I on a hiding to nothing?

[Runewalker]

..Food point... RW

LOL - Typo? or BBQ on your mind?

As usual, both.

The frets are not worn, it's just a cheap chinese strat copy neck from ebay

As I suspected when you described the problem. I get these alot because they are bargains, but I always assume the need to level and crown. Then it becomes imperative to do it myself, because an additional luthier charge of $100-125 turns a cheap neck into an expensive neck.

This is really a very typical presentation on the Asian necks, and it actually can happen on other production necks. There are small variations in fret channels, humidity, fret press pressure, worker inconsistencies, and a number of other factors. When I was at the Gibson factory the first thing I noticed was the misters that were 30 feet up humidifying the factory to keep the air saturation constant and wood conditions static. Don't know if that happens in the Asian factories, but an interesting detail.

Some of the hand luthiers brag that their fret jobs rarely have high or low spots, yet they still level, crown and polish. Wildberry, an eBay store, sells a number of necks, bodies and parts. I don't get much from them because they tend to the pricy end. On their necks they always admonish the buyer to conduct a full fret dress. That used to bother me, sort of like they were immediately making excuses in case there were any issues. So I always bought the bargains. Then was disappointed with the consistent high and low spots on each neck I bought. Some were vaguely tolerable so I let them ride, took them to buzz state and backed off, going, "awwwww, good enough for govt work." When I finally broached the fret-dress skill set, the playability of builds increased dramatically. I now know it is just a required and standard procedure if you want that magic sensation of a superb playing guitar.

One note here. The frets I find on many of the cheap necks are quite soft. You will not find any stainless steel frets on these bargains. So it take little effort to hog the metal. This really requires a firm but gentle approach. This is what is great about learning on an inexpensive part, little exposure in case you are overly aggressive.

The other thing I notice is that these softer frets tend to wear faster, especially with that SRV style of digging in and relying on psychobends. More justification for even more guitars so as to pace the wear on any one guitar.

This guy's Usenet post:

www.harpamps.com/micKguitars/Fret-Dressing.html

....details an intersting approach I had not considered, where he sequentially moves the fret file toward the heel, leaving microscopicly higher frets towards the bridge. He then finishes the leveling like many lutheriers with a deeper drrop on the heel side frets.

Makes sense, I just have not tried it.

Good Luck. This procedure really ratches up the feel of the instrument.