Finding Ohms output on Single coils?

[nowhereismyhome]

Any clue how to tell what the ohms output on single coil pickups is?

[UnklMickey]

ohms is a unit of resistance. the pickup doesn't "put out" ohms.

it is a somewhat useful yardstick to measure the relative number of windings on a coil.

more turns and/or smaller diameter wire means more resistance.

more turns means more "heat".

get a $5 digital multi-meter from Harbor Freight or whatever discount offshore tool vendor is in your area.

you can measure the resistance of the pup(s) without even taking the pickguard off.

[nowhereismyhome]

Only reason I asked is because the "black ice" overdrive chip that www.stewmac.com sells has a disclaimer that says "Black Ice is designed for use with high-output (10K ohms or more) single-coil or hum-bucking pickups and a 250K control pot." I don't know if my pickups are 10K ohms or not, which is one reason I've been considering switching out my stock pups for some new ones.

[UnklMickey]

okay, so here we go:

• get the meter
  
• plug a cable into your guitar (other end plugs into nothing)
  
• select just one pup on your selector switch
  
• turn the volume control(s) on the guitar to max.
  
• measure the resistance from the tip to sleeve of the loose end of the cable
  

the resistance measurement will be microscopically lower than the actual resistance of the pup.

the bridge pup will likely be substantially higher than the middle, which will be a bit higher than the neck.

"vintage voiced" fender SCs 6,000 to 8,000 ohms.

[nowhereismyhome]

I'm on it! I'll buy one at Radioshack (if I can) and test it out inbetween doing some modding stuff tonight. Not sure if you're into pedal modding, but I've now modded a Boss CS-3, a Boss SD-1 and an Ibanez TS-5 and the TS-5 is the best mod by far. Also, I just got back a Keeley modded DS-1 and I absolutely hate the thing, so just thought I'd share my experience so far. If you ask me, there isn't a better overdrive on the market (if you count price and tone) than a modded TS-5. They sell for dirt on ebay....Totally worth getting www.monteallums.com mod. I try not to tell everyone this, but since you've been very helpful, thought I'd share one of my better kept secrets. Sorry if I sound like a used car salesman.

[jester700]

Yeah, but I don't care for that little plastic potato bug vibe. I have a TS-7 I like a lot, though.

[UnklMickey]

nowhereismyhome said:

...I try not to tell everyone this, ...

i think ya just did.

[UnklMickey]

unklmickey said:

...
the bridge pup will likely be substantially higher than the middle, which will be a bit higher than the neck.

"vintage voiced" fender SCs 6,000 to 8,000 ohms.

took some resistance measurments on my late model MIM Strat.

i was surprised to see the bridge pup was only slightly higher in resistance than the middle and neck.

bridge = 6500 ohms
middle = 6300 ohms
neck = 6300 ohms

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

unklmickey said:

okay, so here we go:

{Snipped cool instructions list}

the resistance measurement will be microscopically lower than the actual resistance of the pup.

I learned something new, and it didn't hurt a bit. ;D
Thanks!

If I can find the info I have on how to test a stompbox battery without removing it from the box, I'll trade ya that for the above. (Unless you already know it.)
I just bought a digital multimeter via eBay. As soon as it shows up, I'm going to get in some practice with it. (Analog is nice for some things, but . . . )

[UnklMickey]

ministratmaine said:

...If I can find the info I have on how to test a stompbox battery without removing it from the box, I'll trade ya that for the above. (Unless you already know it.)...

if you're talking about the designs that use a stereo jack, and inserting a mono plug switches the device on, i'm hip to that.

but don't think of this stuff as being a trade.

think more in terms of "pot luck". everybody brings what they can to the party.

so start a new thread and post it. i'm certain lots of members will find it useful.

some so much so, they may even wire up a special cable with a stereo plug on one end and banana plugs on the other, so they can quickly plug their meter in to check the battery health.

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

And later on today's show, finding ohmage (is that a word?) of a humbucker.

unklmickey said:

if you're talking about the designs that use a stereo jack, and inserting a mono plug switches the device on, i'm hip to that.

I thought you probably were.

but don't think of this stuff as being a trade.

Well, that was sorta TIC. :J

think more in terms of "pot luck". everybody brings what they can to the party.

Okay. Anyone signed up to bring Chex Mix yet? ;D

so start a new thread and post it. i'm certain lots of members will find it useful.

As soon as I find it, I will. Got it right here in my Gravity Filing System.

some so much so, they may even wire up a special cable with a stereo plug on one end and banana plugs on the other, so they can quickly plug their meter in to check the battery health.

Hmm, one more thing to get when I make my next "speed run" on RadShack.

And back to something resembling the original topic: How do I scope out my "new" DiMarzio X2N with my new multimeter? (No ¼" plugs yet, just the R/G/B/W/bare.) IIRC, the eBay description said "around 14K," and it's got a little tag on the back that says "14.84." Just fiddling around so far, I've seen 7.30-ish from red and black, and 7.57 from green and white.

I guess I should also ask about "coil orientation" on an X2N, that is, as to slug pole or screw pole coil stuff. The chart on guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/category/wiringresources.11pickupcolorcodes shows DiMarzios as Green-White-South for the screw pole coil, and Red-Black-North for slug pole. But these blade frammistats are confoozin' me.

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

unklmickey said:

the resistance measurement will be microscopically lower than the actual resistance of the pup.

the bridge pup will likely be substantially higher than the middle, which will be a bit higher than the neck.

So, to bump this one back up the list, and see if I've drawn any logical conclusions from the above (haven't tried it yet):
In the middle switch position on a two-humbucker guitar, the reading should be around the sum of the individual pups if they're wired in series? And half or thereabouts if they're in parallel? (E.g., one with 6K and one with 8K would parallel to around 3.43K.)

[pab]

unklmickey said:

okay, so here we go:

• get the meter
  
• plug a cable into your guitar (other end plugs into nothing)
  
• select just one pup on your selector switch
  
• turn the volume control(s) on the guitar to max.
  
• measure the resistance from the tip to sleeve of the loose end of the cable
  

the resistance measurement will be microscopically lower than the actual resistance of the pup.

the bridge pup will likely be substantially higher than the middle, which will be a bit higher than the neck.

"vintage voiced" fender SCs 6,000 to 8,000 ohms.

I want to measure pup resistance
Sorry, I do undertand that one lead of the meter should go to loose of cable, but the other one to "TIP", wich part of the guitar is TIP, what do you mean??? Thank you!

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

pab said:

I want to measure pup resistance
Sorry, I do undertand that one lead of the meter should go to loose of cable, but the other one to "TIP", wich part of the guitar is TIP, what do you mean??? Thank you!

"TIP" is basically the very point of the plug; pretty much anything above the little indentation where the cylindrical metal part changes shape. You may notice a thin layer of plastic, just before the indentation part. Anything below that line is "sleeve."
Hold either lead of the meter against the barrel (sleeve), and touch the other lead to the point (tip).

[pab]

OK mine... If i supposed pos 1= bridge, pos 3 = middle and pos 5= neck

here are the stock pup resistace from my squier strat standard:

Bridge= 3.95K
middle= 3.73K
Neck = 3.31K

It really sucks hehehe, thats why I want to change pickups... Output is not very high!
Do you think this values make sense mini strat?

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

pab said:

OK mine... If i supposed pos 1= bridge, pos 3 = middle and pos 5= neck
here are the stock pup resistace from my squier strat standard:
Bridge= 3.95K
middle= 3.73K
Neck = 3.31K
It really sucks hehehe, thats why I want to change pickups... Output is not very high!

Nope, although what you're seeing is not so much the "output" as the inherent (I guess that's the word) DC resistance of those pups. That in turn affects the output when there's an amp in the equation.
Those Squiers are definitely not the hottest things to ever hit the market. I was surprised to find when I measured my JS-050-¾ that the readings were around 7.64K, 7.75K, and 7.77K (N-M-B).
By comparison, Fralin Blues Specials are around 6.2K for N and M, and 7.2K for the bridge.

Do you think this values make sense mini strat?

I think you got it right. BTW, if you check positions 2 and 4, you should see it drop to "about half" because whichever two pups are selected are in parallel. The math for my JS-050 comes out a little different than what my meter said for positions 2 and 4, namely 3.91K and 3.94K, right up there around what your bridge pup shows. Parallel resistances divide (in a weird algebraic way), resistances (pickups) in series add. That's the premise behind the Tone Monster and any other mods that can put two or more pups in series.

[pab]

I<ll change my bridge pup for a dimarzio humbucker fitting in single coil...

But now i'm a little upset because I did shield MOD and everytime I play a string a buzzz noise came out of the amp when string fad out...

I mostly play with bridge pup....

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

pab said:

I<ll change my bridge pup for a dimarzio humbucker fitting in single coil...
But now i'm a little upset because I did shield MOD and everytime I play a string a buzzz noise came out of the amp when string fad out...
I mostly play with bridge pup....

On the same string all the time, or on any/all? I think a buzz might be more of a "string thing" than electrical noise, at least if it's only when a note is decaying. (Unless maybe the note is masking the noise for most of the note's duration.) If you're not getting hum, etc., any other time, you might want to see if you've got a string buzz going on because of a burr or other little glitch with a fret, or in a saddle or the nut. (Squiers aren't noted for having the most polished frets in the world, either.)
That kind of thing is easy to correct, once you find its source.
Good info on "Finding the Mystery Buzz" here: www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/buzzintro.html

[pab]

Yeah the little scrathing noise appears as string decaying only...

I'm sure I did mod well, because hum is almost gone etc...

Recently , bfore execute mods, I have change my styrings set from BLUE steel to fender standard...
AS far I remenber blue steel never give schatching noises...
But because I did mod , its hard to say if it is a string matter or electrical...
The noise appers in all strings, but more apparent in BIg E, A and D...
I'll read article you sended to me,,,

[Ripper]

WOW..They are low Pab. At least you know what you have to do.
The Texas Specials on my Stratocaster are...

Bridge = 7.6K

Middle = 6.5K

Neck = 6.2K

[momo]

So, I apologize for the remark if im wrong but, should the measurements go the other way, in the sense that if you have a 6 ohm pickup compared to a 3 ohm, since we are talking about resistance, the 6 ohm should give less output than the 3 ohm?

thanks

[UnklMickey]

hi Momo,

no need to apologize. you asked a question. you don't have to be right when you ASK!

i think you mean 6k (6000) ohm and 3k (3000) ohm.

the resistance of a pickup is a rough indicator of how many turns are in the coil.

note that this assumes that the bobbins are the same size, and the wire is the same size and type.
(this is not always the case.)

so if you have more turns but all other things are the same, you will produce more output.

cheers,

unk

[momo]

I just checked my pickups with the meter,
Neck: 6.18
Middle:6.10
Bridge: 5.97

This is on a 62 Reissue made in 87. Now I always felt that I had a hot output, by comparing with other posts, it seem average. Can anybody with a 62 reissue compare so we can see where we stand. Or could anybody tell me where I stand compared to other single coils. Also does the amount of turns with the wire on the pickup affect the "character" of the pickup, I really like the 5 distinct different tones I get with the 5 way switch. Does more output equal better fat tone, or is that a result of the actual "personality" of the pickup.
I hope this makes sense!
Cheers

[razbo]

Nov 18, 2005 18:49:56 GMT -5 UnklMickey said:

okay, so here we go:

• get the meter
  
• plug a cable into your guitar (other end plugs into nothing)
  
• select just one pup on your selector switch
  
• turn the volume control(s) on the guitar to max.
  
• measure the resistance from the tip to sleeve of the loose end of the cable
  

the resistance measurement will be microscopically lower than the actual resistance of the pup.

the bridge pup will likely be substantially higher than the middle, which will be a bit higher than the neck.

"vintage voiced" fender SCs 6,000 to 8,000 ohms.

Question (and maybe probably a stupid one): Would this method work just connecting the meter to the red & white wires on loose (not installed) pick up? I am concerned about frying a pup with whatever voltage the meter needs to send to measure.

And on a related note, this thread was in the context of single coils. Would there be a variation on the procedure for HB's?

I've wanted to put my meter on my pups, but somebody told me I could fry them somehow, so I've not done so. Some reassurance would be great.

Thanks!

[D2o]

Not a stupid question at all.

What you propose would work just fine, seeing as your pickups are not yet installed.

The beauty of Unk's description is you can measure the resistance of installed pickups without having to remove the pickguard.

There is no difference in the methodology if you are measuring HB, but there may be more wires involved with some HBs, and those wires are inconsistent with respect to what color wire means what (which wires(s) is(are) signal, and which are ground). Here is a partial list of HB color codes.

The meter readings for HB would be higher than those of a single coil, say 8K to 15K ohms for most HB versus 4K to 8K ohms for most single coils.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
D2o

[newey]

Razbo-

There are more detailed instructions on how to do these operations in the reference section. See Discerning LP-type resistances for the humbucker version, the SC version is in a similar thread called "discerning Strat-type resistances".

Set your multimeter to read resistance, 20K range if it's not auto-ranging. You won't fry anything. And yes, you can test the bare wires the same way. I check every new pickup I get this way and note the results for future reference.

2-wire HBs are checked the same way as a SC, for four wire ones you can check the coils individually, or wired together in series as well.

[razbo]

I made a comparison to a known pick up to confirm results and have since been measuring the pick ups in my guitars. I begin to have some basis to compare the sound I get from each. I'm just beginning to delve into the differences between pick ups, so suddenly knowing what is in each guitar (well, resistance, anyway) is great.

It's interesting because the HB pups I got from Stew Mac are - I think - very low (8.0k neck & 9.0k bridge) and they get quite a different sound from my the 11.9/15.7's in my Epi. And I doubt those are considered very "hot" either?

Now if only there was a way to tell which type of AlNiCo (or whatever else) was in each, etc.

[ChrisK]

From Bill Lawrence's website.

Rating Pickups with DC Resistance

DC resistance is NOT a power rating; it is the resistance of the wire in a pickup's coil at zero hertz, something that only occurs when the guitar isn't played. If some marketers use DC resistance as a power rating for an AC device, like a pickup, then they only show their ignorance. If we use DC resistance as a parameter, we disregard the fact that, due to Pe and other conditions that result in eddy currents, the effective resistance (Rac) is frequency dependent.

DC resistance (Rdc) tells you as much about a pickup's tone and output as the shoe size tells you about a person's intelligence!


Millivolts

The output rating of pickups is generally given in millivolts (mV). Millivolts could be a helpful parameter if all manufacturers would agree on a standard measuring method that provides such data over a wide frequency range. Now, let's say with this information, we plot an impressive-looking graph showing the different output levels at various frequencies -- does this give you a good idea of the sonic character of a pickup? Yes and no. Don't forget that not every guitar is created equal, and neither are the players. We use different kinds of strings, cables, amps and speakers, and a pickup is only one link in a chain that finally determines tone and output.


Inductance

Inductance ( henry) is another valuable parameter for the sonic evaluation of a pickup but requires some basic understanding of electrodynamics. As a general rule, the higher the inductance, the lesser the highs. For example, a traditional strat pickup has an inductance around 2.3 henry while a Gibson PAF has an inductance around 4.4 henry and some of the so-called "distortion" pickups have an inductance above 8.0 henry. With these comparisons, you get a basic idea. Besides inductance, there are other factors that also need to be considered in projecting tone and output of a pickup.


Tone and output mainly depend on the relation between inductance, magnetic strength and the efficiency of the pickup, as well as the relation between the inductance of the pickup and the capacitance of the cable.

[razbo]

Jeeze you engineer types are handy when the time comes.