piezo on my stingray

[mmray321]

would it be hard to put a piezo bridge pickup on my singray,iv seen other stingrays with them on,and it makes them sound so sweet:)

il prolly have to destroy it in the process,if so let me no

[sumgai]

matt Dave,

What are your intentions for this piezo pickup?


sumgai

[gfxbss]

sumgai, just to give you a heads up, his name is dave(he is my girlfriends little bro). as far as his intentions, i think its for a new sound. he was asking me about them, but im not really sure what they are. ive never even seen one to tinker with.

Tyler

[sumgai]

Tyler,

A couple of us here on the boards have piezo saddles on our axes. At least Chris and I use them for 13-pin Roland products, and if I'm not mistaken, Gumbo does too. (But he's from Down Under, so we tend to take what he says with a grain of salt. ;D)

Fishman was one of the first companies to implement individual piezo crystals into otherwise standard Strat-style bridge saddles. They did that only to gain a tone that sounded very much like an acoustic guitar, and for the time, it was indeed, pretty close to the real thing.

At about the same time, Roland was producing guitar-synth products that had a pickup wound with six individual outputs, one per string. (Sorry, RandomHero! ) It wasn't too long before some enterprising young soul melded the two technologies together, and the rest, as they say, is History.

Today you can get piezo saddle sets for Strats, the Wilkenson knock-off of the Strat, TOMs (no matter what they are mounted on), Fender-style bass saddles, and the venerable but much under-appreciated Jazzmaster/Jaguar/Mustang. Rumor has it that other saddle styles are under development, but that and $1.50 will get you cup of coffee at the local choke-and-puke. ;D

These come from the aforementioned Graphtech and RMC, arguably the 800# gorillas of this particular market segment. You can also find them from L. R. Baggs and Fishman, and possibly others. Here are the associated websites for these companies:

GraphTech (Ghost system)
RMC
L. R. Baggs
Fishman


And here's a short list of some Yahoo groups that have a lot of good user support. RMC's Richard McLish himself participates in a couple of these, and is often quick with an answer to technical questions:

MIDI Guitar Should be self explantory, no?
VG-8 For VG-8 and VG-88 owners, but ranges pretty far afield.
VEditor A software editor for the VG-88.

If you're into synth guitar, then there are several more Yahoo groups just for that. And that's not even getting into Google or MSN groups! And saving the granddaddy of them all for the last, this site is the definitive source for all things 13-pin, including pickups:

VG-8.com


Now, Dave, if you'd care to elaborate on what your goals are...... ;D


sumgai

[ChrisK]

Yeah, I've got a few piezo equipped guitars aboot. While they sound acoustic-like, they don't sound exactly like a real acoustic guitar. I prefer to run my piezo pickups thru a Boss acoustic simulator (well, filter-thingy since it's analog inside) before the amp. They sound a lot better with a little "massaging".

I haven't listened to them on bass guitars much, but Fender have a new (for 2006) Mexican Jazz Power Bass with them that streets for about $700.

Fender Nashville Deluxe Power Tele, Fishman piezo bridge and PowerChip module. I also have a Roland GT2K (or whatever) pickup on this for my VG-88.

Parker P-38 with Fishman vibrato power bridge and PowerChip module. (Fishman was Parker's business partner in Parker Guitars.)

These are both just piezo/both/magnetic guitars. The piezo sounds are OK.

My experience with the Fishman piezo saddles is that they tend to be fragile and break. At the local Music go 'Round, they always seem to be replacing a saddle or two on the used gear that they get in.


Godin xtSA with RMC saddles. This has piezo/both/magnetic selection as well as Roland-type 13 pin outputs. It also has a 3-band equalizer on the piezo output. The piezo sounds are very good, RMC are considered to be about the best for piezo sounds. While this guitar streets for $1,000 thru MF, they can still be had for about $700 new. Magnetically this is a HSH guitar.


AND, the Variax 500 with Powerbench.

I think that you should check out the Variax Bass which streets for about $1,100.


I've owned the following:

Rickenbacker walnut Laguna with piezos. Nice sound but a real pain to hold and play (sharp edges).

Ibanez S2020X with HH and piezos. Nice sound.

Ibanez SA620 with HH and piezos. Eh.

Parker Fly with HH and Fishman saddles. Nice, but a couple of dead spots on fretboard.


If you're going to try piezos, you MUST use a PA or an acoustic amp. A wide range bass amp with a piezo tweeter may be ok if it has a wide freq response. Guitar amps (especially tube ones) tend to be crappy in high frequency response, and will not do them justice. I use a PA and a Fender Acoustisonic Pro amp.

[dunkelfalke]

and you can buy piezo transducers which you can stick tothe bridge or wherever you like (will try out the headstock one day)

[mmray321]

my goal is to have more of a spitty treabley sound,someone off utube told me that thats what it will do

[mmray321]

iv seen them on other stingrays,and i noticed thaey sounded way cool,i just wanted to know if it would an ez upgrade

[sumgai]

Dave,

mmray321 said:

my goal is to have more of a spitty treabley sound,someone off utube told me that thats what it will do

mmray321 said:

iv seen them on other stingrays,and i noticed thaey sounded way cool,i just wanted to know if it would an ez upgrade

Well, if you can see a piezo pickup on the guitar, then we're not talking about the kind that's built into the saddle, that's for sure!

You can buy all sorts of piezo transducers (the correct name for a pickup, and often marketed as such) that are made to 'stick' on the guitar body. The crucial aspect of this is, where you mount it will affect your tone. The upside is that if the adhesive is not too strong, you can experiment without damaging your guitar (bass) - just keep moving it until you get the desired tone. ("spitty treabley" - WTH is that?) The downside might be that you'll spend quite a bit of time getting it just right. And you may need to experiment with different adhesives in order to make it stick, once you've found the right place to put it.

The most direct answer to your question is that no, this isn't hard to do, nor should it damage your rig (unless the adhesive is way too strong - test it first!). The only other thing I'd consider is that there will be a small-diameter cable permanently laying on your axe. The transducers I've seen don't have a jack, they just have a cable coming out. This is so that you don't accidentally bump or lift the thing while plugging it in.

If appearance is not an issue for you, then I'd say, go for it!

Google for "piezo transducer OR pickup guitar OR bass", and see what happens. You'll find everything from a $1.49 Radio Shack special up to a $200+ Barcus Barry unit. Happy hunting! ;D

HTH


sumgai

[mmray321]

ahh well apperance is an issue on my ray,i was thinking of puting it behind the bridge pickup,because then i can drill a hole in my pickguard,no wire mess.

would it sound bad there?

is there a big diff in quality of the piezos?
like if i go buy a cheapy will it sound bad?

ill surf around and try to learn more,any help i would appriciate

[UnklMickey]

mmray321 said:

...ill surf around and try to learn more,any help i would appriciate

catch your first wave on GN2.

i'm fairly certain cheap piezos were discussed here a LONG time ago.

[sumgai]

Dave,

unk is right, there was a thread or two on cheap piezos, way back when. Set the Search function's time box back about 500 or even 600 days, and see what happens.

As for how a piezo will sound when placed in some certain location, I don't think anyone can just pop out an answer to that one, it's entirely subjective (meaning, it depends on, or is subject to, your opinion). However, you did say 'drill a hole through the pickguard to bury the wire'. Man, if you even think of mounting it on the plastic itself, you haven't been paying attention in class! To combine Runewalker and Chris in one idiom, Toneplastic isn't! Any vibrations sensed by the piezo will be dreadfully damped, due both to the poor interface between the body wood and the plastic, and the plastic's inability to resonate (at musical frequencies).

In short, be my guest, but let me suggest that if you're interested in how the job looks, then use a pickguard that you can toss out afterwards (that hole will be hard to fill back up, eh?). Then put the little doohickey back on the wood where it belongs. ;D

And yes, to answer your other question, piezo pups do vary in quality. But it's also true that most of the price jumps are due to other aspects of the product such as what comes with it (cable, adhesive, etc.), any documentation, and just as important, any warranty from the manufacturer. Like nearly all else in life, you'll probably get what you pay for.

If you do this, take pictures! And then post 'em!!

HTH


sumgai