ruffwood
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 1
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Post by ruffwood on Feb 17, 2008 17:44:27 GMT -5
help !!!!, i'm building guitars now but i don't know jack about
the electronics of a guitar,
i've build one guitar so far and somehow i got lucky and it sounds great, but i was woundering what a 3 single coil humbucker would sound like, or if it is even possiable, help!!!
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 17, 2008 18:12:17 GMT -5
Are you wanting to build a guitar with three, single coil sized humbuckers, or a guitar with a single, three-coil humbucker (validity discussion deferred)? If it's the former, the The Padouk Caster has three single coil sized stacked humbuckers and, with the Mike Richardson wiring scheme, sounds great. |
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Post by humanbn on Feb 28, 2008 0:45:59 GMT -5
I think he wants to know what would happen if you made a three coiled pickup as opposed to a two coiled, humbucker, or simply a single coil. Would the third coil take the field out of series?
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 28, 2008 15:57:03 GMT -5
Well, if there are three coils, and two coils must be wound out of phase with each other to effect hum cancellation, two of the combinations of two coils can be humbucking and one can not.
It is possible for none of the coils to be hum canceling, two of the coils to be hum canceling, but never all three completely.
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Post by JohnH on Mar 6, 2008 6:37:13 GMT -5
Well, if there are three coils, and two coils must be wound out of phase with each other to effect hum cancellation, two of the combinations of two coils can be humbucking and one can not. It is possible for none of the coils to be hum canceling, two of the coils to be hum canceling, but never all three completely. Well acshally, im here to float the theory that, given three similar coils, with one being RWRP, the combo (coil1 x coil2) + coil3, with all sounding in phase and coil 3 being the RWRP one, is hum cancelling. I'm serious.... John |
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Post by Runewalker on Mar 6, 2008 8:41:15 GMT -5
Well acshally, im here to float the theory that, given three similar coils, with one being RWRP, the combo (coil1 x coil2) + coil3, with all sounding in phase and coil 3 being the RWRP one, is hum cancelling. I'm serious.... John JH, Won't that be "mostly" hum cancelling. There is a guy named Jon Moore who custom winds pups. One of his offerings is differentially wound coils in a humbucker, to get "mostly" humbucking with an emphasis one the "hotter" coil. I know some certain engineer types will debate the merit of that approach, but that's his deal. He also will tap (no really tap, not coil cut) the individual coils to get multiple DC resistence levels. In your array, assuming I understand your nomenclature, you have one super pup (c1 X c2) combined in para with a single in RWRP. With unmatched DC resistences, would that not be partially hum cancelling. Ok, at this point I am out of my league and will quickly run away so SG, CK and you can start attacking me, while I whimper. |
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Post by JohnH on Mar 6, 2008 14:58:16 GMT -5
Thanks for asking - but I think it really is humcancelling. Theres two other related combos that also do this, with the same coil references as before in which Coil3 is RWRP, the full set is:
(Coil1 x Coil2) + Coil3
(-Coil1 x Coil3) + Coil2
(-Coil2 x Coil3) + Coil1
I came across the last two on my old Shergold, which effectively has them as stock settings when a humbucker oop with itself is combined with a single coil from the other pup. The sound of these Oop versions is bright, mostly like a single coil, except Humphrey.
And the math checks out, when you consider the combination of individual hum contributions from each coil, and how much of them appears at the output after being voltage-divided by the three pup resistances. We find that each of the series coils contributes 1/3 of a hum, while the other coil contributes 2/3 of a negative hum, all adding up to zilch hum.
John
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Post by ChrisK on Mar 6, 2008 19:22:29 GMT -5
Regarding "being voltage-divided by the three pup resistances", this is confusing to me. I'm also not clear on what "each of the series coils contributes 1/3 of a hum, while the other coil contributes 2/3 of a negative hum" means, so I'll try some meta-modeling. With all things being equal, if each coil generates (picks up) an equal amount of hum (assuming that each coil actually does so), the two coils in series will generate twice the hum signal (series sums) as one single coil. If we model each single coil as an AC generator with an output of "X" and a series resistance of "Y", at the summing (well, averaging) node of the single coil and the two single coils in series, we will find that the single coil is driving the node with a current of X/Y, and the two series coils are driving the node with a current of 2X/2Y. In essence, they are supplying equal AC current into the node, but out of phase with each other. Again, this is hum (common mode) induced signal. Oh wait, "impedance" not resistance.  The series structure has (perhaps/maybe) twice'ish the inductance of a single coil (perhaps/maybe).  The two substructures are not exactly equal. For 50/60 Hz hum, they probably are close enough.  I think that this is what you're saying and I tend to agree. Again, this is with ALL things being equal, which, of course, they never are. Equal hum susceptibility, equal output voltage, equal impedance, etc. It's been my experience that even if two (or more) coils are unequal, but relatively similar to each other, the elimination of even partial hum goes a long way. My statement applied to the combinations of three coils taken two at a time, and was an initial "put". Since "ruffwood" has not revisited us, I'm not even sure what answer he desires (other than "what something sounds like"). Your analysis applies to a two in series, in parallel with one structure only, in certain phase combinations. The other possible structures involving three coils at a time are not fully humbucking. 3 in parallel - no, 3 in series - no, 2 in parallel, in series with one - I don't think so. Regarding.... ....that must be Oz for "zed".  |
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