Whats the deal with Tuning

[vonFrenchie]

By tuning I mean standard, step down, two steps down, etc. What tuning do you use? What tunings are best for what genres?

[benjy304]

Various alternate tunings are used for slide guitar.
Why not expand "tuning" to mean any tuning system other than twelve-tone equal tempered. Admittedly such tunings systems are impractical on the guitar, having fixed frets. But if anyone plays another instrument that can easily be used with systems other than 12-TET, I'd like to hear your opinions on them.

[sumgai]

benjy,

Why not expand "tuning" to mean any tuning system other than twelve-tone equal tempered.

Sorry, no can do. What you speak of is properly called a 'scale'.

- Scales are how many steps an octave is divided into.

- Tuning is relating one string to another, or one instrument to another.

HTH


sumgai

[sumgai]

vF,

By tuning I mean standard, step down, two steps down, etc. What tuning do you use? What tunings are best for what genres?

Ah, thanks for the 'straight line'.

OK Gang, check out my newest time-waster:

Tuning in 5ths

That outta curl the hair on your toes! ;D



sumgai

[vonFrenchie]

That tuning in 5ths seems like an awesome way to tune for heavy metal and desert rock. Get the super lows and the super highs. This reminds me, I have bass strings in my room.

Also, I think I'm going to try to tune by octaves. the lowest string is three steps below the standard E, A2, then D#3, A3, D#4, A4, D#5 which is a half step below the high e on a standard guitar.

[ChrisK]

Yeah, tuning in 5ths.

Schecter had a couple of 5 string 5th-tuned guitars about about 5 years ago. I'd never actually seen one, but considered it.

I was interested in it as a means of getting full scale coverage on a 5 string guitar since I hate the narrow string spacing on (un)normal guitars. I was going after the Keith Richards 5 string Tele thingy.


What a novel concept. Dang I wish that I'd invented it. Then I could have developed the cello (this is also know as cello tuning), the violin, the mandolin, and what-nots (there, I used what-not in a sentence).


Now, if'n ya had a VG-88 or a Variax (I gots both), this would be a simple setup patch.


sumgai, fire yours up and tell him how good or bad it will sound (mine's in a city that I presently am not).

[vonFrenchie]

I have guitar pro 5 on my computer. That lets you tune a virtual guitar any way you want from two steps below an octave below a standard bass (C0, F0, A#0 and D#1) all the way up to B9 which is 5 octaves above the standard b on a guitar. Also you can transpose a song from one tuning to another. Its pretty handy.

[sumgai]

.........
sumgai, fire yours up and tell him how good or bad it will sound (mine's in a city that I presently am not).

What Chris is talking about is the VG-88's ability to tune each string to whatever you desire, within the audio frequency range. But the definition of whether or not you like my tone, irrespective of my tuning, that's a horse of a different color.

BTW, if you start looking for one of these babies, you'll find a whole slew of them cheap......... there's a new unit just coming to market, and VG-88's are being sold off by the carload to help finance purchasing the new VG-99. Ditto for the older sibling, the VG-8 (and S1 / EX), it's really inexpensive now. Check out eBay or craigslist for your area.

HTH


sumgai

[ChrisK]

The VG-88's are going for aboot $450 to 550 on ebay. They were normally aboot $800.

The VG-99 looks to be around $1,200 when it arrives in July'ish.

I'm kinda torn between not buying a VG-99 and not buying a VG-Strat.

Maybe I'll not buy them both.

[sumgai]

Chris,

.......
I'm kinda torn between not buying a VG-99 and not buying a VG-Strat.

Maybe I'll not buy them both.

That's gotta be the quickest $2900 you ever put in your pocket! ;D


sumgai

[Ripper]

On my White Strat, I tune to A440 just to be in sync with all my mates.
My SRV Strat I tune down to E flat, because of the bending, and I get more of a low end growl.
My 12 string I tune down to E flat as well. Its easier on the neck, and its a tad more melodic in my opinion.

[sumgai]

deep,

On my White Strat, I tune to A440 just to be in sync with all my mates.
My SRV Strat I tune down to E flat, because of the bending, and I get more of a low end growl.
My 12 string I tune down to E flat as well. Its easier on the neck, and its a tad more melodic in my opinion.

You imply that for the E^b tunings, you use something else besides 440Hz for A - what would that be?


sumgai

[Ripper]

Sumgai...Yes, youre correct as always!
I meant standard tuning. When I tune to standard pitch,I find the "A" note on my pitch pipe and using the harmonics method I tune the rest of the guitar.

Reading it now, I see how stupid that looks.......hmmmm? lets see....I was tired??

[vonFrenchie]

chrisk said:

I'm kinds torn between not buying a VG-99 and not buying a VG-Strat.

Maybe I'll not buy them both.

I'm with you on that one. Im under a VERY tight budget so 1,700 dollars (for the VG-Strat) is way too much. Also I dont really dig that modeling guitar stuff. If anything I would get a VG-strat over any line 6 guitar. I'm happy with my relatively new Les Paul.

[ChrisK]

Yeah, I'd probably take a VG over a Line6 guitar at equal cost, but the VG to me starts at $1,600 (prior to negotiation) and the Line6 starts at about $700.

Now, to be fair, the VG is a $900 street Am Strat plus some bits ($700) whereas the Variax is about a $300 guitar with some bits ($300) as well.

However, one can buy aa aftermarket Variax body for $100 over the standard cost of a Strat or Tele replacement body and use either a standard Fender pattern neck.


Now, the Variax has different output levels for the different models because it's modeling THOSE guitars. Fender touts how their models are better because they have the same output level for all of their models (except reviewers indicate that they don't).


I've seen several folk extensively play a VG, but I've not seen even one purchased.

In the end, I trust and like the piezo pickup tracking (especially the RMCs on my Godin) better than the magnetic GK3 Roland thingy.

And my Godin has HSH magnetic pickups, RMC piezos for 13 pin drive, and a three-band graphic equalizer for a third piezo acoustic output. The best of all three worlds for $700 new.

[vonFrenchie]

I think I'm sticking to the good old analog, magnetic guitars for quite some time now. No Les Paul HD, VG-Strat or Variax.

[benjy304]

sumgai said:

Sorry, no can do. What you speak of is properly called a 'scale'.

- Scales are how many steps an octave is divided into.

- Tuning is relating one string to another, or one instrument to another.

I think we may have some confusion of terminology:
I meant, and indeed said, "tuning system". Your definition of "tuning" falls under this, if said strings are tuned to intervals belonging to a tuning system. Not all systems have the same interval between all notes, and not all systems have the same number of notes per octave. A scale is a collection of notes taken from a given tuning system, and in Western music the chromatic scale does correspond to the number of divisions per octave, and all other scales are derived from it.

Now I admit that, yes, your definitions do fit into the ones outlined above, but are far more specific than what I intended.

[ChrisK]

I may be missing something real simple here, but I never did get that whole Gibson LP HD thing. I spent about an hour in the Gibson tent at the 2005 CES show in Las Vegas listening to the Gibson guys not explaining it very well at all (I think that it was 2005, it was also the adult video industry show, so I may have been somewhat distracted, however I'm absolutely certain that it was in Las Vegas, I think). [Fear and loathing.....]

Is there like, a point to it somewhere?


I hope that it's more than a hard-deterministic RTOS and Ethernet protocol.

[sumgai]

benjy,

I think we may have some confusion of terminology:
I meant, and indeed said, "tuning system". Your definition of "tuning" falls under this, if said strings are tuned to intervals belonging to a tuning system. Not all systems have the same interval between all notes, and not all systems have the same number of notes per octave. A scale is a collection of notes taken from a given tuning system, and in Western music the chromatic scale does correspond to the number of divisions per octave, and all other scales are derived from it.

Now I admit that, yes, your definitions do fit into the ones outlined above, but are far more specific than what I intended.

I stand by my previous assertions. The only thing is, I left out from the final statement "..... or one note to another", that would have covered the whole possible gamut.

Re-reading your previous posting, I see now that you were more interested in non-Western, non-equal tempered scales. I have no experience with anything else, sorry to say. My VG-88 allows me to change the basic tuning standard (435Hz<A<445Hz), and I can alter what pitch each open string will produce, but from then on, depressing a string at a given fret will produce an equal-tempered division of the octave. Ditto for my GR-33, that can't be changed away from the equal-tempered system either.

Rather limits my experimentation, don't it?

HTH


sumgai

[benjy304]

I have no experience with anything else, sorry to say.

I don't either, unfortunately, hence my curiosity. And not just non-Western scales, but any of the various temperament schemes used up through the Baroque era that were supplanted by equal temperament (Pythagorean, Werckmeister, etc.)

Rather limits my experimentation, don't it?

Yes, I'm afraid that 1: Normal guitars work best in terms of versatility with equal temperament and 2: Because of this, even the guitars that can automatically retune themselves aren't equipped for anything besides ET, since there's no demand for it (I think )
Anyway, I am vaguely interested in hearing pieces of classical music played on period-correct instruments with period-correct tunings, but I haven't had much luck finding any such recordings. There is, on the other hand, a program somewhere that I saw that was written for experimenting with tempering MIDI files (I can't remember where, though.)

[ChrisK]

Rather limits my experimentation, don't it?

Oh, quit taking the easy way out and just move the dang bridge up or back as needed.

On a 25.5" scale, if you move the bridge toward the neck by about 1.52", you will have an 11 interval "octave" and if you move the bridge away from the neck by about 1.43", you will have a 13 interval "octave". (Although these won't be octaves anymore, but more like a septave.5 and an octave.5.)


However, if you do this, you might have to rent your audience.

(Note, some folk inadvertently render scales with more or less (sometimes fractionally) than 12 intervals simply by trying to put the wrong scale neck on a guitar.)

There is, on the other hand, a program somewhere that I saw that was written for experimenting with tempering MIDI files

More like ill-tempered, eh?

In the Yamaha DX-7 synth for example, one could create such ill-tempered behavior.