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Post by Ripper on May 25, 2007 4:12:42 GMT -5
What exactly is a boutique guitar? Is it anything but a Fender or Gibson?...or other popular names? I read the name being tossed around but dont know what it means.  |
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Post by crazymanandy on May 25, 2007 4:32:26 GMT -5
I suppose it would be similar to boutique pickups or boutique pedals. Basically a small, but specialized, operation. Things made by a boutique are generally considered to be of higher quality.
CMA
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Post by Ripper on May 25, 2007 11:39:11 GMT -5
Hmmm....But, they dont have the manpower that the bigger places have, so ill bet you pay through the nose.
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Post by crazymanandy on May 25, 2007 15:31:57 GMT -5
Yeh, you do. There are some guys out there who have their own unique designs and are trying to do something different, but you have a lot of "boutique" builders who are just ripping off Gibson or Fender or whoever. If you want a custom/quality guitar of an already established design, you'd be better off getting a neck and body from warmoth and buying some quality parts. You'll have a great guitar for much less than you would pay a boutique builder.
CMA
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Post by sumgai on May 25, 2007 21:22:54 GMT -5
A sum-what definition of boutique: An exhorbitant price for an ordinary item, said price being predicated on false premises. This price is usually touted as putting higher quality into the product, but that assumption cannot be substiantiated by impartial testing. (See ChrisK's thread on Con Men, and extrapolate from there........) The extra cash you "donate" to the cause often goes to pay for some kid's college education, or a new yacht, or the condo in the Bahamas, or the Beemer, or other more illicit materials, but higher quality....... nah! Of course, YMMV! ;D sumgai |
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Post by ChrisK on May 25, 2007 21:58:55 GMT -5
Copying Fender or Gib$on isn't ripping off if they were too stupid to protect their designs via design patents (as opposed to utility patents) or copyright (which they were and, oh, wait a minute, one of them copied guitars that came before theirs anyway). Take a look at the original Bigsby guitars. A Boutique guitar is one that isn't mass produced but made by a caring craftsman (most of the time I'd like to believe) that ensures that the particular specimen is much better than the average and of higher quality. There are many such builders but I wouldn't place the Custom Shops of the two aforementioned large producers in the high quality bracket since they pretty much just use the pedestrian bits of kit (British for parts) that are used in their standard production stuff. There's a lot of marketing feldergarb (Battle Star Galactian for bear$#it) about the vintage'ness of modern stuff. Most true vintage stuff was made with the cheapest cr@p (US for bits of kit) available at the time and most vintage reissues are made with the cheapest cr@p (US for bits of kit) available at this time. As I said, there are some really good builders out there, but for the cost, I can build a few to several truly nice guitars. Of course there is that one fantastic builder out there, but mine aren't for sale.  |
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Post by crazymanandy on May 25, 2007 22:18:00 GMT -5
Copying Fender or Gib$on isn't ripping off if they were too stupid to protect their designs via design patents (as opposed to utility patents) or copyright (which they were and, oh, wait a minute, one of them copied guitars that came before theirs anyway). I didn't mean that in a literal way. I was just saying that many of the boutique builders are simply taking a fender or gibson design, upgrading a few parts, and charging an exorbitant amount of money for it. So, in essence, they're ripping the customer off (literally speaking ). As I said, there are some really good builders out there, but for the cost, I can build a few to several truly nice guitars. Agreed. CMA |
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Post by ChrisK on May 26, 2007 12:48:57 GMT -5
Ripping is relative.
I don't think a lot of the Fender guitars that are at levels lesser than the Am (U.S.'ish) Dlx series. At this level, they begin to feel "good" to my hands. I've owned a few and tried many of the lesser models and they just feel "unfinished" or "raw" in my hands.
Gibson (note that I didn't spell it Gib$on as I usually do) has some lesser guitars such as the faded series, some of the "guitars of the week", and the BFG. I LIKE these! But I've always liked the rounded/thick 50's neck and disliked the 60's slim taper stuff. I'll take a '58 baseball bat neck any day. Of course, I use 1 3/4" fatback and 1 7/8" boat necks on my builds.
The three single coil blade pickup SG model has about the best SG mechanical feel that I've ever tried. It's routed for three humbuckers, so it could be easily converted to three humbuckers or anything in between. I have a faded SG that feels quite different from this SG.
Of course, there is a dearth of meaningful published specificity on WHAT pickups are used. This guitar has the 6 pole rotary switch and single volume and tone of the new SG series so it lacks enough "holes" for the addition of a switch rash.
And of course, this is a "guitar of the week" so only 400 will (ever they say) be made.
Hmm, should I be modifying this or keeping it for its potential "Vintage'osity".
So, the Fender basic shapes (Strat and Tele) are THE shapes of electric guitars along with the SG and LP. This might explain why they are so copied.
IMHO the Strat shape is the optimum ergonomic shape, which just might explain its longevity.
A tally of the "Candy Store" indicates the following"
Strat 428
Tele 181
Thinline 83
LP 40
LPS 7
Jazz/Jag 10 (a one year "high" perhaps for this style)
Mustang 3
Soloist 7
VIP 20 (a PRS-style)
VW 14 (usually not this many)
Variax 1 (a Tele version)
Misc 32 (which includes the following:)
Explorer 1
Jagstang 1
L5S 1
SG 8
V 12
V-2 1
and some others
Well, the LP, SG, and some PRS usually aren't bolt-on, so we might have to think that these numbers are somewhat low.
But hey, what does it look like folks want?
I have a friend who has several of what would be called boutique guitars. They are quite nice....
What is the true cost of an electric guitar?
An Am Dlx Strat lists for about $1,700.
It usually sells for about $1,200 (70%of list).
The vendor (GC) cost is about $850 (70% of street).
If Fender is making a 50% gross margin, they make it for about $425. If they are making a 66% gross margin, they make it for about $283. If they are making a 75% gross margin, they make it for about $213.
I suspect that they are making somewhere between a 50% to 66% gross margin (these are for sales to GC, the largest volume customer).
So, the Am Dlx has about $283 to $425 in factory "attention".
Applying the same metric to a Custom Shop model I would expect that since there is much less volume, the costs are much higher per unit.
Hmm, at $3,000 * 60% (I'll bet that the Custom Shop dealer makes a clean 40%) = $1,800.
At $1,800 * 25% (I'll bet that the Custom Shop makes a clean 66% gross margin) = $600.
Wow, the Custom Shop models are about 150% "gooder".
As one can see, the mark-up on custom instruments is quite high (it's a business).
I can buy a decent laptop or PC, or electric guitar for $1,000. I can buy a custom laptop or PC (a gamer unit), or electric guitar (a boutique/custom) for $3,000+.
After all, they have equivalent levels of technology, eh? A guitar is an instrument whereas a laptop or PC is just a tool.
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Post by UnklMickey on May 28, 2007 0:46:48 GMT -5
For people who dis the boutique maker, this should be said. There is no economy of scale. Boutique anything is necessarily more expensive, because the production numbers are low. It's not possible to amortize the design and setup costs over a great number of units. Just like your local music store vs. CG et al, they provide a valuable service. There are some in the business who are greedy, but most are filling a niche not covered by the big boys.
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Post by crazymanandy on May 28, 2007 4:26:12 GMT -5
I see what you guys are saying. I guess I just couldn't see myself paying so much for something I could do myself. But not everyone has that kind of time available or the interest to do it.
Later,
CMA
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musicallymrm
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Post by musicallymrm on Jun 7, 2007 15:22:00 GMT -5
:)I generally subscribe to the "learn by doing" philosophy so to really find out what constitutes a "boutique" guitar, find an outlet that sells them and play them. The attention to the "small" details make the biggest differences in feel and tonal response to me. The best of the boutique brands to try IMHO would be: Tom Anderson Guitars www.andersonguitars.comJohn Suhr (Even the Pro Series are really good) www.suhrguitars.comTerry McInturff (I own a Glory Standard and that's about as good as boutique gets) www.mcinturffguitars.comTyler Guitars www.tylerguitars.comZion (the luthier is experiencing some health issues) but this is a premium luthier out of NC -same as McInturff www.zionguitars.comHamer (the customs could be considered boutique) www.hamerguitars.comBaker (Gene's first incarnations ar the absolute best) www.bakerguitars.comiF YOU WANT TO SEE THE BEST BOUTIQUE GUITARS IN THE WORL UNDER ONE ROOF, GO HERE: www.indoorstorm.com  |
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Post by sumgai on Jun 7, 2007 15:33:48 GMT -5
(Caps lock get stuck in the ON position?) No Callaham guitars? Reasonably priced, and he sells most of his parts separately. No De Temple guitars? Then the place doesn't live up to the claim. I could list a few others, and so can anyone else who reads Vintage Guitar magazine, I'm sure. Not a bad start, but not the be-all, end-all either. I'd recommend this to the list of sources only on that condition. sumgai |
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musicallymrm
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Post by musicallymrm on Jun 7, 2007 16:23:02 GMT -5
(Caps lock get stuck in the ON position?) No Callaham guitars? Reasonably priced, and he sells most of his parts separately. No De Temple guitars? Then the place doesn't live up to the claim. I could list a few others, and so can anyone else who reads Vintage Guitar magazine, I'm sure. Not a bad start, but not the be-all, end-all either. I'd recommend this to the list of sources only on that condition. sumgai Not that familiar with De Temple but have purchased Callaham parts for many of my Fender Guitars especially the tremelo blocks. Hardly economy items but extremely good quality. \ I suggest Indoor Storm because it's located in Raleigh, North Carolina (here where I live) and several of the brands I suggested are also made here in NC. (McInturff/Apex NC, Zion/Guilford County, and one of the finest boutique Fender style amps ever IMHO, Carr Amps/Pittsboro. NC has some of the best boutique luthiers and distributors anywhere. Eddie Berman at Indoor Storm is also a seasoned veteran session player with monster chops and keeps the good stuff in stock in his store. One of my favorite places to sit and dream.............. |
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Post by sumgai on Jun 7, 2007 17:44:43 GMT -5
muse, If it's a brick-and-mortar store, then my opinion ratchets up a couple of notches. No way can one outlet physically carry "all" of the good stuff, there has to be some compromising going on. And yes, NC does seem to have more than its fair share of high end builders, both instruments and amps.  sumgai |
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