clr
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Post by clr on Jul 6, 2008 21:22:31 GMT -5
What do you guys think of live musicians with lyrics in front of them?
I for one need them. For the life of me, I just can't remember lyrics at all!.
I usually need to see the first line in a new verse then I can remember the rest no problem.
The thing with this, is I was hanging out with a local band, and the drummer was ragging on their singer to remember the lyrics to the songs they cover. He too had the lyrics in front of him. "Do you think Robert Plant had a music stand in front of him" he says. My question (Yes I've asked twice) to you guys is what are your takes on live musicians having lyric sheets in front of them?
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Post by crazymanandy on Jul 6, 2008 21:39:30 GMT -5
I don't know about keeping them on a stand. Seems like it would get in the way. Maybe, if I were covering a lot of different songs constantly or didn't do it full time. Otherwise, a singer should know most all the lyrics he is going to sing, IMO. I think the Robert Plant comparison is a little off. It's different when you write your own lyrics/music and only play what's in your own catalog.
Many singers I know, even ones that write their own stuff, keep lyrics, set list, etc. on the ground in front of them. They can look down if they need to.
CMA
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Post by ccso8462 on Jul 7, 2008 10:37:52 GMT -5
I think a lot of folks think it looks more professional to have everything memorized, but consider the great bands on the talk shows and the old big-band era groups. They all use music stands, just not the usual wire or black metal "Manhassett" band/orchestra stands. Also, I note that in many concerts the performers are using CCTV monitors on stage facing them to keep track of the music/lyrics. Same as a stand, they just look cooler and require someone to run the computer. And Andy has a real point: If you only play what you write, it makes it a lot easier. The more different things you play and the less rehearsal time, the more the need for a little help, whether it is perfomance notes on the upper bout of your axe to a music stand. I think the important thing is to provide the best performance possible for the audience, so do what you need to do to accomplish that goal. Just like using a capo, some do, some don't. It is an aid that can be used to reach your goal. ;D
Carl
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Post by mlrpa on Jul 7, 2008 11:15:35 GMT -5
Since I sing like a sheep dying in agony, that's kinda a moot point with me. (I've been banned from comming within 20 feet of a mic by the ASPCA. ;D) But I usually have a chord chart of the tunes by my feet. Just as a reminder in case of a brain fart.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 7, 2008 14:12:07 GMT -5
I would guess that it all depends, but......... As one gets older, meaning as one gains more experience, and learns an ever-widening repertoire, one comes to a point where he/she can no longer remember every word, in order, to every song they ever performed........ the memory bank is full to overflowing, and additional input can no longer be accomodated. Enter the book, the savior of all experienced musicians. While it may not look "cool" or "professional", it can make or break a gig. If you can't remember some, or all, of the words to a song you last performed two years ago, and the requestor is the Best Man at a wedding reception, you better believe that your book is gonna make the difference between a big tip, and an "oh crap". That very scenario plays out every day, hundreds of times a day, all over the place. The corollary here is, the young musicians can memorize lots of stuff, never take a book onstage with them, and pull off an amazing gig. They simply have yet to cross the line of "memory buffer full, no further input accepted". To them I say: "Don't smirk, I was once in your shoes, and I guarantee that you will someday be in mine". But don't forget the "trained" musician that can't play a note without sheet music in front of him/her. It was just the way they learned to play, and one might as well let them have at it, providing that they're good enough to make the crowd appreciate what they're doing. As for using a cheat sheet at your feet as opposed to a stand, that's a personal thing. And that ragging drummer - I'd tell him that if his memory is so perfect, then he can sing the bleepin' song. Some folks simply don't wish to fill up all their time with "learn by rote" practice, they'd rather spend time on improving their skills, or maybe spend time with their families, etc. Again, it all boils down to personal preference. (Unless the ragger is the "owner" of the band, then he gets a bit more say in how things are done. But if he makes the singer uncomfortable, then the band won't ever got out of the starting blocks anyway - it'd be better for the raggee to depart for greener pastures.) HTH sumgai
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Post by crazymanandy on Jul 7, 2008 15:52:26 GMT -5
I should add to my original comment: I definitely don't think he should lose the stand if he needs it and it would detract from the performance if he stopped using it. If the band is rockin', I don't think anyone is going to care about the music stand (except for drummers, apparently ). CMA
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clr
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Post by clr on Jul 7, 2008 19:16:22 GMT -5
I would guess that it all depends, but......... As one gets older, meaning... Do you mean REM old? He as a laptop AND a stand!
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Post by quarry on Jul 7, 2008 20:23:22 GMT -5
Forgetting lyrics, or chords/music is not always an "age" thing...
I remember one of my first gigs; I was playing bass, and we were doing "Promised Land" by Bruce Springsteen. We started it with the bass riff alone, then the rest of the band joined. I was young and a bit overwhelmed by being on stage; I completely forgot the bass riff! There I was - with the guitarist, vocalist, and second guitarist all humming the bass riff to me...
Ahhh... memories. At least I can still enjoy them, for the time being...
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Post by andy on Jul 8, 2008 5:01:17 GMT -5
As many folks have already stated, there are plenty of musicians who have always used stands- big bands, orchestras- I occasionally work as a stage guy for the London Symphony Orchestra, and 1/4 of the job is putting out stands!
David Bowie is another singer who insists on having the lyrics on stage, apparently more as a comfort thing than because he can't remember them, but that may just have been an excuse! Also Ozzy Osbourne famously has a large auto-cue between his monitors- and still loses his place!
I think the bottom line is 'Whatever works...'. Should guitarists use capos? Should they use compression in a live setting? Should they have reminders on stage? Who cares if it sounds good, and people are dancing/rocking/nodding along and sipping Bordeaux? There will always be the 'other musician' in the crowd with his arms folded disapprovingly, mentally listing all the things he would do better than those actually on stage (well, we've all got to do something when we're not playing!), but that guy is a permanent fixture wherever you go, and the perfection of his performance will be scrutinised in the same way when he's up there, no matter how good or bad he is.
And to echo Sumgai, I earned a few quid earlier this year with a dep on a Guns'n'Roses Tribute band- over a week or so I had a few hours to learn the whole set, so instead of frantically trying to play everything enough times to know it off by heart, I spent that time writing it down, and checking the 'readability' of the charts. As a result, I never learned to play any of those songs by memory, and the rest of the band weren't too keen on the stand hidden in with the drum hardware, BUT they had a bass player for four otherwise unplayable gigs who could play 'November Rain' and 'Estranged' correctly every time, and I got paid without having to memorise two hours worth of music for just four gigs.
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Post by kuzi16 on Jul 8, 2008 8:03:09 GMT -5
in all fairness could you remember all the words to REMs "its the end of the world as we know it" ... i know i cant and i have never had a problem remembering lyrics.
ive heard a song on the radio that i havent heard in years and i STILL sing all the words note for note.
or to one up myself... a friend and i were jammin the other day and he started playing a song we used to play 5 years before and i still remember the words. i had not thought about it in at least 4 years.
but thats just me.
i was also in a band where the day before a show we wrote a song. we liked it so much that we all had music on stage to give us reminders. the lead singer pulled out a sheet of paper from her pocket and read off of that. we explained to the crowed what was goin on. we didnt move as much but they seemed to think the song was at least decent.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 8, 2008 12:50:49 GMT -5
andy, Very cogent response, a well-deserved +1 for you. ;D But playing, and furthering the torture of humans with G&R? I should reconsider that Exalt......... well, maybe all you need's just a little j/k! For the resta ya's.......... The mind/brain is a weird duck, to say the least. The web is full of stuff about it, try www.brainconnection.com for starters, if'n yer interested.......... sumgai
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Post by andy on Jul 9, 2008 5:19:50 GMT -5
Thankyou, You are only too kind. Chiding accepted, but I assure you I have committed far more heinous musical crimes, as yet un-punished!
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Post by sumgai on Jul 9, 2008 13:35:55 GMT -5
andy,
Don't worry........ if you can commit it, I've got the appropriate smilie for a response! ;D
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 10, 2008 13:53:18 GMT -5
Do you mean REM old? He as a laptop AND a stand! ...actually, he was watching a bid on eBay...
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 10, 2008 16:51:42 GMT -5
Yeah, but this is related to quarks and muon's in the O-Zone astro-chemical-layer.
And, drummers hate music stands 'cuz they remind them that none of them can actually read.............
Few drum scores have lyrics.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 10, 2008 17:39:55 GMT -5
... actually, he was watching a bid on eBay... Yes, but unfortunately, he's not screaming because he just got sharked, he's frothing at the mouth because his WiFi connection just got tanked by the guitarist's wireless setup! Thus he's still looking for the ever-elusive Barbie Doll Summer Fun collection, which is all he needs to have the entire set of First Editions, by Mattel, of course. HTH sumgai
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