Bass Talk

[newey]

As was noticed a while back when i posted a pic of my current stable of guitars, I have a cheap P-bass copy that is a rather ugly pink color.

Now, I don't play bass, any more than any guitarist can plunk around on one. But i want to have a decently playable one around the house for those late-night impromptu sessions when friends drop by.

But my knowledge of things bass-ish is practically nil. And there seem to be quite a few bass players (or, at least, occasional bass players), on the board here. So, I want to pick your collective brains a little bit.

The story so far:

I bought the pink P-bass copy cheap on ebay. Brand new, but was flawed in several places in the finish, and the neck was badly twisted. It sat around in "future project' status until recently, when I took it to my tech guy on the off chance he could do something with the neck, although I doubted it was salvageable.

However, he was in the middle of moving his store to a new location, and didn't get around to the job. When I went in last week, he apologized profusely for not having done it, but that's OK, I'm in no hurry.

Anyway, he showed me that he had another one, the identical bass in the ugly pink color, but with a decently straight neck. However, the pickguard and all the electronics had been stripped out of this one. But it was strung, had the bridge and tuners, and was at least playable, although it, too, needs some neck work and adjustment.

He offered to trade me my complete one, with dings and warped neck, for the undinged one with a decent neck, but with no electronics. We negotiated, I ended up paying him an extra $20 for the one with the good neck.

So, now I have my second pink bass. Like the first, a refinishing is the first order of business. Since this one doesn't have any damage to be repaired, I can just wet-sand it down a bit and give it the rattle can treatment.

But now for some questions.

On a cheap guitar that I'm rehabbing, i would normally upgrade the bridge and tuners. Again, the goal here is cheap playability. Same logic with a bass? I don't want to drop 80 bone on a nice Badass bridge for this thing, but is it worthwhile to spend around $30 on what seems to be a stouter bridge than what's on there now (which is a cheap Asian imitation of a std P-bass bridge). Same question on the tuners. Worthwhile to do a sort of mid-level upgrade? Any suggestions for bridge and/or tuners?

Second, I have ordered a new pickguard and an EMG Select P-bass replacement pup. This is the passive type EMG, and fairly cheap. But, guitar nut to the max, I'm thinking this needs another pickup.

Standard mod would be, add a J-bass pup a la the P-J bass. But I was actually leaning towards a neck HB like the Gibby EBO bass. Would this be worthwhile to do? Would I get a sort-of EBO tone out of it?

Another thought was to do a stealth install of a neck HB, under the pickguard, thereby keeping the regular P-bass look. But is one of those style pups going to have enough of a field for a below-the-guard install?

I also have an active preamp for a guitar that could be invited to the party. If I add that, would I necessarily need a bass amp with high/low inputs? Haven't got a bass amp yet, so that might play into the choices of amplification.

Finally, what about string choices? What's decent for a reasonable price? The few times I've plunked around on a bass, I liked the feel, and the tone, of flatwounds (I like them on guitars, too, at least for rhythm playing) Gauges? Given that this is a cheap bass, I would think a heavier gauge might be beneficial in minimizing any fret buzzing. Any thoughts?

Sorry for the long post, but I need some guidance.

EDIT: I should probably shut up. But one more query: I have heard of folks modding their P-bass for a side output, thereby removing the jack from the pickguard, and opening up a spot for a pot. Anyone do this mod?

[cynical1]

Dec 6, 2008 1:07:52 GMT -5 newey said:

(or, at least, occasional bass players)

That would be me, the "occasional bass player"...

...a refinishing is the first order of business...

Black. Definitely black. All "occasional bass players" choose black.

I don't want to drop 80 bone on a nice Badass bridge

And who does. Honestly, I never quite bought into the whole BadAss bridge thing. Schaller makes the best bass bridge out there. It allows for adjustments in intonation, height and string spacing.



I just picked one up on eBay for 40 bucks. They also made the same bridge for Kramer basses years ago. Sometimes they show up on eBay pretty cheap.

Same question on the tuners.

Schaller, Gotoh, some of the Wilkinsons and anything used off a Fender or Gibson. Watch eBay and you can pick them up pretty cheap.

But I was actually leaning towards a neck HB like the Gibby EBO bass. Would this be worthwhile to do? Would I get a sort-of EBO tone out of it?

Ah yes, the old EBO tone...liquid mud... If you're going to drop a humbucker in your bass I can only recommend two choices.

1.) Rio Grande neck humbuckers. These will knock your socks off...and take ALL your lunch money. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for... You can drool over them here:

www.riograndepickups.com/scart/SubCategories.asp?ProductName=For+Bass&SubCatName=NECK+HUMBUCKINGS

PS: These almost NEVER show up on eBay. When they do they don't go cheap

2.) Probably not as cheap as you were look for, but DiMarzio makes a bass humbucker called the DP120 or Model One. It was designed as a direct replacement for the EB series pickups. Billy Sheehan has his name all over these. You can take a look at www.dimarzio.com
These will be around half of what the Rio Grande will cost. They show up on eBay once in a blue moon and they auction pretty close to retail.

Option 3 would be to wait for some guy to sell off his on EB pickup...Hell, he may even pay you to take it off his hands... Like the saying goes "If the nice man offers you candy...get in the car with him..."

Another thought was to do a stealth install of a neck HB, under the pickguard

Although this has a certain geewhiz factor...please...think of the children...and don't do it

I also have an active preamp for a guitar that could be invited to the party.

Newey, if you're going to go active, then go with the MusicMan setup from Seymour Duncan. It's the best aftermarket set-up I've heard...for under the cost of an ounce of uranium... Personally, I never liked active electronics in a bass, so I'll have to defer this point.

Haven't got a bass amp yet

Then I would STRONGLY advise looking for a used one. Unless, of course, you wanted to paper mache your guitar amps...

Finally, what about string choices?

Man, this is a seminar all onto itself... Check out Webstrings

www.webstrings.com/

For the money you can't beat them.

I use nickel and generally stay away from the stainless strings as I've found they like to eat frets.

Gauge is another discussion in itself. If you just bang around once in a while then I'd recommend a medium gauge .045-.105 or a light set .040-.095. Heavy strings are a lot of macho hype, IMHO. Everyone goes through it, gets carpal tunnel and drops back a gauge...

Round wounds are brighter with more growl...and you can't slap a flatwound...well, you can, but...

Flatwounds have an warmer tone and are much nicer to your frets. Not the first choice for Metal, though...

Strings are something you just figure out...eventually...

Sorry for the long post, but I need some guidance.

Sorry for the long reply...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[andy]

Black. Definitely black. All "occasional bass players" choose black.

How peculiarly true that is!

Now I will try to keep this brief, as I am supposed be recording today (with my cheap P-Bass in part, too)!

As for upgrading the bridge and tuners, I would ask if either is causing a problem? If so, then the average Ebay part will probably be better than a budget factory piece. However, if they work fine, then no tuner will improve the play or tone of the bass- just make tuning the thing nicer to do! The bridge really depends on what you want- I have had (and have) a handful of basses and when looking for a standard warm, vintage P-bass tone, I have found that lighter gauge ones give a warmer softer tone. A heavier bridge will fill out the mids and highs- fine enough if that is what you feel the instrument needs, but I am happy with the less chunky bridge on my P-bass. I don't know how the passive EMGs sound, but if they are more 'modern' toned, then a tougher bridge may suit it better but I would suggest trying the new pickup first, then judging it on whether you feel you need the more present mids and highs.

I do love the EBO sound, and considered putting one into a bass of mine, but it just never happened. Using one will certainly give you more low frequencies in the sound, but in practical use I find the P-bass to give as much low as you will need- an EBO or Tele bass sound takes some very sensible use of EQ to keep from cracking the plaster whilst not really sitting up in the mix properly, as the extra lows are often exacerbated with a very soft mid and almost total lack of high end. As Cynical says, there are more up to date neck humbuckers which supposedly make the sound more useable, but that sort of pickup, when compared to the standard P-bass sound can be more trouble than it is worth. You have to be very sure you want such a deep, soft sound (did anyone say Dub Reggae??).

Strings- well, to second Cynical for the second time, they are very subjective. Super heavies really are a bit unnecessary, and I use .45-.105 by choice, although I'm still running out a set of .40-.100's on my cheapo P-bass.

A quick run through as I see it-

Steel-wounds are a bit 'zingier' with a very slightly higher mid focus more 'rock-and-metal', and nickel-wounds are fuller and just slightly softer toned. I am definately a nickel user, and would recommend beggining there for the most likely happiest results, but the only way to find what you prefer is,as not small expense, to try them for yourself. Best chance is to start with nickel and try steel if you want more bite to the tone.

Some string gauges are obviously easier on the fingers than others, but higher gauges usually make it easier to control your playing as the strings hold tuning beter long term, and under finger pressure. Tone-wise a rule of thumb is that lighter gauges actually provide more lows and highs, and as you raise the gauge the balance shifts more in the direction of the mid frequencies. Flatwounds are properly cool, and I would very likely use them on any P-bass were it not for the fact that they cost quite a bit more. A great example of the sound in a rock context is John Deacon from Queen- that warm, friendly tone is what flats are there for! They tend to produce a sound with less highs from the off, a full mid range and very smooth low.

And remember, the older your strings are, so long as you don't gunge them up, the better there are likely to sound, unless you are after a cutting Heavy Metal twang.

[newey]

Good info on all counts, guys!

To summarize, I detect a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the EBO-style HB (unless I'm prepared to drop some coin for a really good one). So, maybe that idea should be consigned to the dustbin of history, as they say. But, it can't be just a regular P-bass, since A: I'm going to have it apart anyway, and B: This is guitarnutz2 and we have a reputation to uphold.

I had thought to put something in the neck position since any routing errors would be covered by the pickguard. Somewhere back aways in E&W, I started a thread about putting a second P-bass pup in the neck position. I'm having second thoughts on that primarily because cutting the guard for a P-bass pup looks a lot trickier than just a square hole for an HB. But options are open on a second pup.

Since I only spent $25 for the EMG, I'm not about to drop a Dimarzio or a Rio Grande in there. I see clones of the MusicMan style HBs for not a lot, I don't know how that would compare to a Gibby-style HB. But I worry that the pole pieces may not match up very well.
I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Schaller bridge. Does that cover,or fill, the existing bridge holes on a P? If not, I'll need to get one before I start refinishing so I can see what holes will need to be filled.

I don't know whether the tuners and bridge really need replacing, I haven't had this long enough to comment on tuning stability. What's on there now looks/feels/is cheap, so replacement with not-too-outrageously expensive upgrades seems sensible.

And, I'll scratch the active preamp idea. I'm not a big fan of actives anyway, but a lot of bass players seem to use them, and what do I know?

Metal is not really a part of the program, so a warmer tone would be the goal. That's not to say that I won't try to learn the bass riffs to "Seek and Destroy" at some point. Slap technique would have to await the development of some technique to begin with. At present, I have none.

Cyn said:

Definitely black.

Definitely not. I gotta let my freak flag fly. Currently, my thought is either a pale buttercup yellow or a green, maybe like a sea foam green. But ultimately, Krylon will dictate the color choice.

So, basically, I guess I'll have to decide on a bridge first, as refinishing may depend thereon. The tuners could actually wait. If I decide to do the side jack, I need to lay that out before refinishing as well. Well, the sanding can begin, anyway, when I get the chance.

[andy]

To summarize, I detect a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the EBO-style HB

Not as such- it's a cool sound, it's just the the P-Bass pickup does a similar thing with less hassle!

I would post some pics of the route I did to put a Musicman type pickup in my old P-Bass, but it currently lives in my parents loft... anyhow the idea would be to show that a complete novice can make a route which looks reasonable, and once the pickup is in, a few mil off here and there won't notice anyway. But if you definately want to put something in the neck position, a MM would certainly do the job. Its not such an exciting option, but even another P-bass pickup in there might sound good whilst keeping the sound clear- the lows might be huge though! I picked that passive MM pickup up for about £14 on ebay, and it was quite workable, so if you aren't looking for super Hi-Fi, cheap parts ain't so bad.

[cynical1]

Dec 6, 2008 9:10:35 GMT -5 newey said:

To summarize, I detect a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the EBO-style HB (unless I'm prepared to drop some coin for a really good one).

On my part, yes. But tone is a very subjective thing...like cigars...but we've had that discussion so I won't go there...

I had thought to put something in the neck position...

You can put anything you want in there. I've noticed on eBay that once someone get a DiMarzio or an SD they sell off the factory Fender pickups. They go pretty cheap.

What I would recommend, since we're going cheap here, is look for a used pair pf Peavey Super Ferrite pickups. In my opinion they sound as good as the older Jazz pickups and you can probably get them for 20-30 buck for the pair.

Or just pickup a pair of Fender factory Jazz pickups for cheap on eBay.

Then you'd have 3 pickups

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Schaller bridge.

You'll thank me later. Over the past 30 years I've tried alot of bridges. This one is the best, IMHO. (No funds were transferred for this endorsement...damn)

As far as the tuners, if they ain't broke, don't fix'em. If it's an aesthetic thing then keep an eye on eBay and grab a set down the road. The Gotoh's tend to be the best for the money. Schaller is still my choice...when I'm working steady... You can always pick up a set of old Fender or Gibson tuners after someone else upgraded. They're probably better then what you have anyway.

And, I'll scratch the active preamp idea. I'm not a big fan of actives anyway, but a lot of bass players seem to use them, and what do I know?

Good. I've always felt it was overkill. Stanley Clarke spent thousands on basses, Jaco had a '62 Jazz bass he allegedly bought in Florida for $90.00. What do I know...

Metal is not really a part of the program, so a warmer tone would be the goal.

I hate people who make recommendations...so here's one...Go to Webstrings and buy yourself a set of a set of .045-.105 flatwounds. They're 15.99 plus freight, and if you don't like them I'll buy them from you.

They'll be easier on your fingers and your frets.

I gotta let my freak flag fly. Currently, my thought is either a pale buttercup yellow or a green, maybe like a sea foam green.

Seafoam green? On a bass...are the GoGo's re-forming? ;D

At least think about Red...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[newey]

are the GoGo's re-forming? ;D

They broke up? I thought that whole Belinda Carlisle solo album thing was just a phase . . . ;D ;D

I hate people who make recommendations...so here's one...Go to Webstrings and buy yourself a set of a set of .045-.105 flatwounds. They're 15.99 plus freight, and if you don't like them I'll buy them from you.

Since I was asking for recommendations, I'm not going to hate you for making one. Thanks, it keeps me from floundering about on the web looking for I-don't-know-whats.

I'll try them. And, you won't need to buy them back from me, since I don't have any basis for comparison I'll probably think their great, at least until I play a whole lot more bass. By then, they'll be all munged up and ready to be replaced anyway.

EDIT: And, the medium-gauge flatwounds are out of stock currently at Webstrings. Oh well, lots of work to do before I get to restringing anyway.

[dunkelfalke]

when you look for budget but still good parts, try wilkinson.

tuners:
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160301873681

bridge:
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110320666845

pickups:
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120328192393

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120327023078

[newey]

Thanks, Dunklefalke!

I used Wilkinson bridges on my last 2 Strat builds. they are good quality for the price. The MM pickup looks like the way to go based on Andy's suggestion, but I'd opt for the covered one to match the EMGs I bought, and also in case the pole pieces don't exactly line up. Not sure whether MM uses a different string spacing than whatever I've got.

[ChrisK]

Montecristo #2.

Cohiba Robusto.

And not that there interloping Dominican knock off stuff either.


I have a set of J pickups. Actually I have four of them, two that came in SD boxes (I don't know what this means, but I have Fender covers for them) and two that are Quarter Pounders.

I got these when I bought a brandy new Squier P Bass special for $50 at a GC blowout sale. I got the pickups used and then sold the bass for $150 the next week.

Then I bought the Stu Hamm Urge II for less than $800 brand new (they were $1,280 street at the time, I had to buy it).


You could do something like this;

Two Many Pickups.

But not in pink fer God's sake.