Some DIY Pickup Questions

[drmacdou]

Hi there, I've been considering updating my old squire strat and so far I've shielded the cavity, and am planning to use the Wolf Wire Ultra Strat mod from 1728.com to allow more switching options including phase and series/parallel. Anyway, that should be a we bit of an improvement but I'd also like to experiment with pickups and in particular - creating my own.

My knowledge is pretty low but I understand the basic theory. Currently the squire just has the standard single coils with non-magnetic pole pieces and a bar magnet at the bottom. I'd like to try using neodymium magnets as these are stronger, and to have individual magnetised pole pieces as I've seen commonly on pickups. I know the stronger magnet should create a higher output but I don't know how it will affect (ruin?) the tone. Again this may be resolved by using tube magnets rather than solid rods which will be slightly less powerful.

I can either use the existing winding on the pickups or I could re-wind them myself to allow more control / experimentation. The only problem I have here is that in the UK the thinest guage copper wire thats easy to pick up is 40 SWG which is 0.1219mm thick - roughly between 36 -37 AWG. How would the thicker wire affect a pickup with a strong magnet?

I know these are a lot of questions, but at least if I do experiment I can share my success or failure. Thanks again!

[newey]

dmd-

Hello and Welcome!

It's not clear to me exactly what you now have, and whether simply inserting a set of pole pieces is feasible or not. We had some discussion about Squier Strat pickups lately, and some photos of them showed wax fulling, and they didn't use a traditional bobbin either. If that's what you've got, swapping magnets may not be so simple.

As far as rewinding these, or DIYing a new set of pups, that would be a great thing to do if one wishes to learn, in order to wind lots of pickups in the future. It doesn't make much sense to get the necessary equipment and do all that work just to improve the sound of one Strat.

If you don't want to spent an inordinate amount of time (and probably develop symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome), you'll need a string winder. These can be purchased at Stew Mac and elsewhere, but you're still talking some money. You could DIY a manual winder, but there you've got some hours of building something and you're no closer to a pickup. Then you'd have to buy the supplies, wire, etc.

And, as a first effort, your results may be less than stellar. There is undoubtedly a learning curve.

On the other hand, you could spend around $40 (USD) and get a new set of Al Ni pups from GFS or any number of places. These would likely improve the sound of your Strat, if that's the only goal here.

Most pickups are wound with wire in the 42-45 AWG range. Thicker wire will have several effects, but predominately, it will mean few turns around the same size bobbin. This will, generally, mean lower output.

[drmacdou]

Hey Newey,

I realised my first post didn't make much sense so I'll keep it more simple... The Squire Strat I own in Chinese made, from late 90s. The pickups measure about 6.5k output each - and are all the exact same dimentions (inc. pole piece spacing). When opened up, they are not potted either. The bobbin in plastic, but I'm unsure of what defines a traditional style (if I can I'll get some photos up).

My plan is to remove the bar magnet and non-magnetic pole pieces. I've already sacrificed one pickup to check this works. I'll keep the winding on thats there already rather than mess around finding the right wire, number of winding etc. I've found rod magnets that are 5mm x 20mm that should fit perfect (or with a pit of help) - the extra length can be used to adjust the pole piece heights which were flat to begin with. I have the choice of neodymium N42 or alnico 5 magnets. I understand alnico 5 is used in many pickup designs, but that the neodymium should be much stronger.

This is where I would like to know how the stronger magnet would affect output / tone if the winding were to remain the same? And also if even just using alinco 5 rod magnets would be an improvement on the original design.

[newey]

This is where I would like to know how the stronger magnet would affect output / tone if the winding were to remain the same? And also if even just using alinco 5 rod magnets would be an improvement on the original design.

OK, so you can just change out the magnets on these. Changing magnets will have an affect on the tone, and probably for the better, with either the AlNi or the Neo pole pieces.

As long as you're not going to spend huge $$ for the new magnets, I'd say try it and see what you get. There's no good way to predict the results, as there are simply too many variables involved. While stronger magnets will likely increase output somewhat, with the same windings you shouldn't expect a huge increase in the output.

[ChrisK]

My plan is to remove the bar magnet and non-magnetic pole pieces.

The pole pieces are not non-magnetic, they're just not magnetized. If they were non-magnetic (as in non-ferrous) the pickup wouldn't work at all.

I've already sacrificed one pickup to check this works. I'll keep the winding on thats there already rather than mess around finding the right wire, number of winding etc.

That's a good choice in that there is aboot one kilometer to one mile of wire on a pickup.

This is where I would like to know how the stronger magnet would affect output / tone if the winding were to remain the same?

The different magnet(ic) material will have some effect on the coil inductance and frequency response of the pickup. Different materials have different frequency sensing characteristics.

Stronger magnets will increase the output voltage. Unfortunately, they will also affect the string vibration as well. There is an effect called "Strat'itis" or "wolf tones", which are non-harmonic overtones caused by excessive magnet pull on strings.

In other words, the points (pole pieces) of magnetic attraction are fixed at absolute locations along the string length and generally (except for the neck pickup usually located at the 24th fret open string location), are not located at harmonic ratios or conducive to pure tone. There are empirical reasons why the magnets are at the strength that they currently are in pickups.

The Fender SCN (Samarium Cobalt) pickups do have rare earth magnets, but they are bar magnets located along the sides of the pole pieces which are permalloy, between the two coils. In essence, the structure is similar to the Duncan P-90 Stack (a P-90 with a separate coil beneath the outward facing bar magnets).

And also if even just using alnico 5 rod magnets would be an improvement on the original design.

Maybe.

You could just buy some better pickups on ebay or from Guitar Fetish.

[newey]

For anyone interested in trying their hand at "winding yer own", this website has a "guerilla winding" method utilizing a sewing machine as a powered winder.

However, while they explain in detail how to mount the pickup bobbin to the flywheel of the sewing machine, it's not exactly clear how the wire is routed onto the bobbin.

The rest of the site has a bunch of info on winding pups.