Finding Good Pickups = New Torture Method

[ijustwannastrat]

Seriously. I have never had this issue before, and it has my skin crawling.

If anybody wants to throw in their $0.02, I would love it. I want a pickup that can play clean. But once I crank the volume, I want that nasty tone. An example would be SRV. When he bends, that tone makes me cringe with awe. The way I understand, he played stock pups, through stock amps, cranked.

My problem right now is I'm trying to play like a Texas Blues man, and I have an amp from germany, and pickups named after an aquatic bird.

I'm not looking to sound exactly like SRV. I just want some chunk when I play single notes. If you listen to Peter Green, you can hear how he changes his dynamics. I want that.

If nothing else, I'm going to increase my string gauges until my fingers bleed.

[newey]

Changing pickups to get that "one true sound" can be an expensive proposition. And, realize too that the pickups are only one factor in the equation. The amp is a bigger factor, IMO.

Fact is, SRV could pick up your guitar (well, he could if he was still with us . . .) and he'd sound like Stevie Ray. If you played his rig, you'd still not sound like he does, tonewise.

But if you decide you want to go down that road, the SRV Strat, on which he had design input (and so, is presumably somewhat close to what he actually used) uses 3 Fender Texas specials. $150 bucks a set.

These would probably give a more bluesy sound than your current waterfowlbuckers. If you're tempted to do this, go into it with your eyes open, understanding that you will probably not get everything you want out of this change. It is, at most, one step along the path.

And the amp is another step. I don't know what Stevie Ray used (probably several different things, studio rig vs. stage rig, etc.), but your description of a clean sound that becomes progressively more nasty with the application of power describes a Fender TR pretty well. Or a Deluxe Reverb, which can do the same at a lower volume and is less of a beast to lug around than the Twin. A Deluxe's on my wish list.

I think the new RI versions of these amps sound every bit as good as the vintage ones, are probably more reliable, and if new, come with a warranty. Unless you're a collector or you're able to effect repairs yourself, I'd avoid vintage stuff.

Go see any bar band playing the kind of gritty blues you like, and the lead guy probably is using one or the other of those amps. Or perhaps a '59 Bassman.

These are, you'll notice, both tube amps. Running all the pedals in the world through a SS won't do the trick, although some combinations can get close.

[ijustwannastrat]

Yea, my problem with amps is money. I don't have $1500 to drop. Thanks for the advise, though! I am starting my "Fender Twin Reverb" fund. Starting Monday.

[sydsbluesky]

I agree fully.

Pickups, to me, aren't really the answer to very much. They're the answer to a little... I'd say maybe 5-20% of the tone, depending on your setup?

What Newey said about SRV picking up your rig and making it sound like his is very similar to what happens when one plugs a cheap-o guitar into a very god amp. Suddenly the guitar triples it's base MSRP. Magic.

All three of those he mentioned are ridiculously good choices.

I'm a Marshall man, personally.

Just get a good guitar, get it some GFS SC pups for 35 bucks a set and run it through a Fender twin and you'll be good to go...

...after 50 or so years of practice.

It's not torture. It's just tedious, expensive and a good deal of work.

We're not going to waterboard you for pickup selection. I hopepromise.

Don't worry so much about it. If you ask me, pickup selection matters a lot less than many people think. Tone comes from the heart, not from the head.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record - An adjustable boost module may be something to check out if you want to push any tube amp into big, ugly monster mode. Great choice as an onboard, as it will run your guitar at low impedance. That's good for a few things.

[ijustwannastrat]

I get you completely. A local guy, goes by the name Stretch, is a freak. I've seen him pick up guitar's that are so out of wack, it should be fuel for a fire, and play sweeter, then more aggressively than I've seen out of anybody. But if you heard these pickups, they have good traits, and bad traits. My main problem is that they "quack". I got them for that reason, thinking they would if you pushed them. No. Unless I gently blow on the strings, they quack. The thing I really like about them is that I DO get dynamics, something EMG couldn't give me. But it's the difference between a LOUD quack and a quiet quack.

Edit: But yea, that guy Stretch is the most amazing guitarist I've ever heard, famous or not.

[newey]

money. I don't have $1500 to drop.

Well, don't take my word for it, go play one and see what you think. Understand, though, that your music store isn't going to let you crank much beyond the clean stage.

A Deluxe Reverb can be had for around 1K, sometimes less on sale. The new Deluxe VM, which has modern effects added, is a couple of hundred cheaper still, but I've never tried one of those. I'm generally not a fan of onboard digital fx, but if the vintage tube tone is there, so what? There's nothing that compels you to use that switch. So one of those might be worth some strummin' on as well.

Now your budget is down to $800.

And both of these have plenty of power for small gigs. Anything more and you'd probably mic up anyway. If you don't need all that power, costs go down and your options go up.

[sydsbluesky]

I'm rarely fully satisfied with pickup switching... I think it's a chronic condition stemming from me being me... on the other hand, I have a nifty new idea!



Okay, I play a lotta RPG style games, and I think the guitar rig and an character equipment setup are two things which may be viewed analogously.

We gamers call it "min-maxing."

Firstly, you have your axe and your armor. Let's call the axe your guitar, and your armor your amp. Sure, you can go into battle with just an axe, assuming it's an acoustic axe...

Okay, now you're in battle... you have a good axe, and a good suit of armor. What now? You still need gloves, a helmet, and boots! Think of those as pedals, mics, PAs, guitar picks, cables, lucky orc's feet and all other things of that nature.

Upgrading any one of those things isn't really going to effect much of a change in your overall battle. A goblin will still be effortless, and that dragon is still going to floss with your corpse.

Now, that axe is the guitar, sure... I'm gonna go ahead and call a new grip on the axe something like new strings. A new shaft I'll call a new neck/body. For pickups, I'm going to say the closest we're going to get in this little trip is a new blade on the axe. Maybe just sharpening the blade.

This being said, of COURSE you want to sharpen that blade. You want to get the best grip out there, and the strongest shaft. It's always a good idea to buy a better helmet, or the best boots and gloves for your gold. Just don't expect to waltz into battle against hordes of uruk-hai with an expensive axe, boots, helm and gloves, and plan to get by if you end up wearing third hand mechanics coveralls and an eye catching lime green FOX racing jacket into battle.

Save up, get the best and go slaughter anything that smells like Melkor.

At least I enjoyed that lol.


And for power and options being inversely proportional, I couldn't agree more. I have two amps. A 100 watt hybrid Marshall, and a 5 watt tube Blackstar.

And if you don't think your local shop won't let you crank it, by the gods don't ASK if you can...

Wait until the guy goes into the back room and THEN do it.

Tis better to do and seek forgiveness, than ask and seek permission, or something like that. Right?

P.S. - and yeah, EMGs are very sterile pickups. They're to pickups what over compression is to recordings.

If guitar pickup could be compared to methods of capitol punishment EMGs would be lethal injection.

I prefer electric chair, or maybe firing squad.

[ijustwannastrat]

About the EMG comment, what do you mean "sterile"? Clean? Because according to my ears, no.

[sydsbluesky]

Well, not exactly.

Totally lacking dynamics. One of the reasons I like my p-90 is because it is very open to added flavor from your pick attack. The EMG is the opposite. No color. No personality. No character. By comparison, at least.

The right EMG pup through the right amp... thinking a 60 and a solid state amp... they can be clean...ish? Not what they're known for, though.

The passive EMGs are much more accepting to clean sounds... especially the jazz models.

[ijustwannastrat]

OH! Ok! I have one more piece of "guitar lingo" now. At least most of the other words to describe sound are sort of self-descriptive. I couldn't agree more. I have a 60w solid-state, and I get ok clean sounds, and no dynamics what-so-ever. Ok for metal-hard rock riffs, not so much for other...

[sydsbluesky]

I'm sure there is a compilation of all the qualitatively analytic terms used to describe tone someplace... Using "Sterile" thusly was SOP among me and the fellow guitarists of my home town, but that's worth about a dime bag at Woodstock on an international forum, I guess.

*shrugs* Everyone has their favorite terms.

But anyway, yes. The EMGs sound too... err... Modern for me. On a tube amp set to clean they can have a nice... treble-e, crisp bite that worked well for a few songs we covered in the band, but Dir en Grey has a rather modern sound, anyway...

None of you know DEG, probably... and even if you do, it's their new stuff which is unlike their old material in every single way. They came to the U.S. and started hanging out with a few hardcore bands... I digress.

Try sticking to passives for the more dynamics, I guess. Single coil passives for the most, in my experience. (I p-90s)

I'll be getting my hands back on my livewire (duncan actives) equipped guitar in about two months, and can then give a more in-depth review of those pickups. Everything that I hear about them is that they are like EMG but without the emotionless response. I barely got to install them last time I was home for a visit, but I liked what I was hearing in the few minutes I spent playing them.

Oh, I should at this point mention that the EMG buckers with coil splitting options greatly improve on the design... But I've only been able to toy with them on my buddie's schecter c-1 hellraiser a few times.

[ccso8462]

Instead of $150 for the "SRV" Tex pups, try the Tex-Mex pups for under $90 most places. I put a set in a Squier strat and was pretty amazed at the sound. It got a full shield job, including wrapping the pups, and the sound is pretty good. Good chunk and grit at 10, turn em down and they mellow out nicely. If you're experimenting, it's the cheaper route. Many people say that these pups are the same as the Tex specials, and I can believe it may be true. I'm happy with them and I like the extra bite and crunch.

[1150lefty]

I'm late on reading this... ;D

The Fender Tex-Mex and Texas Specials are wound differently. TS are more overwound and hotter, yet ring like a crystal bell. I guarantee you will hear the difference if you could hear them side-by-side. I have a Strat that came with the Tex-Mex pups and replaced them with one of the first available sets of Texas Specials. WOW! I LOVE SRV, but these pickups were just too much.

With the right series/parallel/phase wiring, junky stock pickups can come alive. Changes in playing style help out too. Wood and shape come into play, but again, you can sqeeze tone out of any entry-level guitar with the right magic.

I have a set of Dragonfire "Texas Blues" SC's that I can actually recommend for $60. I can send you the bridge if you like.

www.guitarpartsonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_64&products_id=615

[ijustwannastrat]

lefty, are you suggesting the Mex-Tex's or the Texas Specials (SRV)?

Also, how reliable is this Guitar Parts Online?

[ijustwannastrat]

So after looking at my thin wallet, I have decided on the GFS Strat "Texas" Alnico pickup set.

store.guitarfetish.com/sttalstpiset.html

If anybody has any experience with these, or GFS in general, please share. Good, Bad, or Ugly.

I've only seen good reviews of it. The one mediocre review said that the middle pup is a little weak. Oh well.

If I do this, I'm gonna probably hook it up so neck and mid get a volume and tone, and the bridge gets a volume. Unless somebody can convince me of a situation where a bridge tone is usefull...

[dunkelfalke]

GFS lipstick pickups sound very very very sweet clean.

And I think you rather need some active boost system to get that sound. Try these two:
guitarheads.net/products/electronics/exp.html
guitarheads.net/products/electronics/vtb.html

[newey]

I have several guitars with GFS pups. I don't think you can beat them for the money. And I've ordered lots of stuff from Guitarfetish and never had any problems.

I've never heard or used the Tex ones, but I've been very happy with all their models I have used. I have their Tele set in my Tele, a Lil' Killer dual-rail in my Esquire-ish git, and a dual-lipstick HB in the white Strat in my Avatar.

Both the white Strat and the E-type are single-pickup guitars, with the pickup at the bridge. I use the tone controls all the time on those bridge pickups. The Lipstick HB (500K pots) wants to be dialed back to about 7 or 8, if it's at 9 or 10 the tone is what my neighbor calls "bright as Hell".

[cynical1]

I remember the Potluck Jam...Bright as Hell is an understatement... I think you could call in a pack of wild dogs from across the forest with that bridge pickup. ;D

[ijustwannastrat]

I actually just got the GFS Premium Texas Strat Pups....

I have to say, they are a HUGE step up from the SD Duckbucker.
I am actually going to carry a gun around now, in order to shoot any aquatic birds before SD has the idea to name another pup after one.

Now I just need to turn my Hughes and Kettner Blue 60 into a Fender Super Reverb....

[FireBall]

I bought a GFS humbucker last year. I thought it was a very nice PAF sounding pickup..

Just food for thought. But you do realize that most of you guitar players like SRV in the first years of playing probably used no better pickups than found in your standard Strat.. Just like EVH.. he pretty much rigged up his guitar because he had no clue how to wire..

Let me tell you a story..

My guitar mentor has always been my brother. He plays a aggressive/progressive style blues and southern rock. He is about 11 years older than me. When I was a kid (I am 40 btw).. You didn't see much Pre and Post amps.. hell, we was poor with the closest music store being about 40 miles away and they specialized in band equipment. Anyway.. my brother had a Fender Bandmaster 40 watt tube amp. This amp did not overdrive until you cranked it to 10, it did not have a pre/post gain. He purchased a Dimarzio Superdistortion from a catalog.. he put this PUP in a Aria Les Paul copy guitar.. My brother is a very good guitar player.. and he has his own sound when it comes to expressing notes... What I have learned from him is that he had to work at his sound because the old Fender would easily point out anything you played.. good or bad.. but if you worked at it.. you could make that old amp sound great.. but only in the hands of a good guitarplayer.. because that amp was very unforgiving..

Now.. me.. I started playing guitar in the middle 80's.. my first guitar was a Charverl Model 4 with active pickups and I had several amps and pre amps.. I practiced a low volumes or with headphones... I sound decent .. but when you plug me into a unforgiving amp like the Old Fender Bandmaster.. well, then you hear the true guitar player.. and it ain't good.

So, long story short.. your sound, with decent guitar.. amps and pickups.. comes from you and your fingers... make since?

[ijustwannastrat]

I completely understand. My problem with the duckbucker is that it sounded really fake. It was the first pickup I put it the guitar, and I should have just bought standard Fender Pups to begin with. I want that unforgiving sound. It's too easy to hide behind pedals and amps these days. I would rather sound bad playing through a fender bandmaster than good through tons of effects. If I never get good at the instrument, oh well.