What else can we do with passive elecs?

[newey]

Consider this as random thought, from one not anywhere near EE level in my understanding of electronic circuitry and principles . . .

But is there anything else (other than what has been thoroughly explored at this site) that can be done passively, to alter guitar sounds in a manner pleasing to us players?

Discussions here have explored wiring schemes for series/parallel, OOP, bleeding some frequencies through one or more caps, all manner of pot wiring variations, and so on. Are there other ways of affecting the sound of a guitar other than those, without going the active route?

Is it possible to passively "distort", or otherwise alter, the signal from a pickup without using a preamp of some sort- in short, are onboard "passive effects" possible?

Or, have we exhausted the possibilities of what can be done with a passive circuit, once all switching and wiring variations have been explored?

I'm sure one or more of the electronic mayvens in residence here will shoot this right out of the water in no time There's probably a perfectly sound ( and probably obvious) reason why such things are not possible- high vs. low impedance or something . . .

Just trying to (WARNING- bad MBA cliche ahead!!) "think outside the box" a bit.

[ChrisK]

Is it possible to passively "distort", or otherwise alter, the signal from a pickup without using a preamp of some sort-

Yes.

[newey]

And, obviously, based on your response Chris, you want me to think some more.

[sumgai]

newey,

And, obviously, based on your response Chris, you want me to think some more.

No, he wants you to hit the Search button above. Me, I'd use the terms "distortion" and "diode". And as always, for any meaningful results here in the NutzHouse, I'd go back at least 600 or 700 days. (However, in this particular case, you might consider going back about 900 days. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)

HTH



sumgai

[newey]

AHA! Seems to be quite a mixed verdict on the use of diodes as a passive effect, but a interesting idea. I may have to keep that in mind . . .

I did search this before posting but I ran through a half-dozen variations on "passive" this or that without getting any hits. Probably just didn't go back far enough.

[sumgai]

newey said:

.......
Probably just didn't go back far enough.

We will sell no idea before its time! ;D

[ChrisK]

Probably just didn't go back far enough.

I've never posted this "truth" anywhere and may never do so.

I can't decide if I want to market it (disclosure is).

There are folks out there posing as hobbyists, asking for help and "harvesting" our forum/answers, and then selling our designs without attributing any credit.

[newey]

Chris-

Understood. This forum isn't a good place for a discussion of intellectual property law (about which I know only a smidgeon anyway), but the basic rule of intellectual property (i.e., patent/trademark/copyright) is to "file early and file often". Even if you're not sure about ultimately doing anything with an idea, it's a good idea to "stake your claim" at some point.

And, while one doesn't like to think of others this way, it's a good idea to never underestimate the capacity of your fellow netizens for evil doings.

It's gratifying to me to know that my speculation wasn't completely off the wall. Of course, I realize that "there is no new thing under the sun"- didn't think it was an original idea, just curious as to feasibiilty.

Sumgai pointed me in the direction of diodes, and it seems like JohnH is the one to ask about that- I've salted that idea away for future reference.

My only idea in this regard was more of a mechanical than electronic solution to a "passive effect". I thought that one could re-engineer a vibrato/whammy bar so that, rather than acting on the bridge, it would go straight through the bridge, and act on a pot in the cavity below via a rack-and-pinion set-up- sort of like a wah mechanism without the active circuit. Thus, the vibrato bar would actually be more of a trem/wah actuator. But that's really more of an exercise in mechanics than electronics- probably be tough to design given the space limitations.

OK. I said it was an idea, I didn't say it was a good idea . . .

So if any bad guys want to co-opt that, be my guest!

[ashcatlt]

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure I've seen something similar to what you're describing discussed on this forum as well. I don't think it got any further than you've taken it here, but you've tickled some synapses claiming that some of my remaining brain cells have stored a series of image patterns which resemble your assertion....

or something...

[kuzi16]

so you are thinking a "tone bar" ?

it would be like a spring loaded pot with a cap on it that would reset automatically to the (presumably) 10 position?
or... maybe the 5 position so you can have "dives" too.

hmmmm
that gets me thinkin....

"stacked" pot
... tone... bass cut... but only one knob.

turn it one way it acts like a standard tone. turn it the other way it acts like a bass cut. attatch THAT to a bar....

[JohnH]

Moving back to the initial question. I think theres lots of new things we can do with the simple parts that we put in guitars, I just don't (yet) know what they are!

Its like chess, just 6 types of pieces, but an infinite number of game possibilities.

I like the idea of a 'whammy pot'. Actually, I'd like one on the volume control rather than the tone, as a much better alternative to 'pinky-round-the-knob' volume swells, which I can't do.

As to diode clipping - Sumgai's search hints, back to 2005/6 will lead to a few thoughts. Its worth a couple of $ to try a Shottky or Germanium diode in place of a tone cap, but just as an experiment. Heres a sound clip:

people.smartchat.net.au/~l_jhewitt/circuits/schottkytest.mp3

A bit dry I think.

John

[ChrisK]

I like the idea of a 'whammy pot'. Actually, I'd like one on the volume control rather than the tone, as a much better alternative to 'pinky-round-the-knob' volume swells, which I can't do.

Ooooh! You mean a REAL tremolo (and not the tremo'Leo, er, vibrato)?

Shottky or Germanium diode in place of a tone cap

And then...............

Sometimes, being "weak in the knee(S)" is a good thing.

[newey]

John-

Thanks for the clip. I agree, a bit "dry" as you put it; I would have said it was a bit "cold", needs to be warmed up a little.

And, assuming that's your sound clip, it also embodies all of Sumgai's new rules for posting in the new "sound samples" area- short, illustrates the sound difference, etc. (Insert broad hint here).

As far as the "WhammyWah" idea, Ash may be right, maybe it's not even original for all I know. But I was thinking a V pot, not a tone set up as kuz suggested. Also, I thought it might be more workable mechanically if one used one of those U- shaped whammy levers, the kind operated with the heel of one's hand, instead of the std long bar.

Instead of "WhammyWah" maybe it should be called the "True TremeLeo"

I think theres lots of new things we can do with the simple parts that we put in guitars, I just don't (yet) know what they are!

Well, if this thread got you thinking then it served its purpose

[newey]

And Chris and I just stepped on each other's posts . . .

[ashcatlt]

newey said:

...one of those U- shaped whammy levers...

?

I might actually use one of those...

Google here I come!

[newey]

Ash-

Now that you mention it, where did I see one of those?

I'll have to search my bookmarks, if I find it I'll let you know. It may have been a complete bridge assembly and not just the lever, now that I think on it some more.

[ashcatlt]

All I was able to find was the Korn signature Ibanez 7 strings with what they called a U-bar. Was on the wrong side of the bridge for what I was thinking. Hope you can find something else.

[newey]

That may have been what I was channeling- haven't been able to find anything else, but searching has been limited today by my inter(mittent)net access.

So, maybe it's a DIY project?