bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 3, 2011 8:57:27 GMT -5
hello!
so ive been having fret buzz for a while on my stratocaster and no matter how i adjust the truss rod the buss is still there, the string action is between 2,7 and 3 mm at the 12th fret i think. do i need to dress my frets ? if so, i would like to do it myself instead of paying someone to do it for me, which tools do i need and what do i have to look out for ?
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Post by roadtonever on Aug 3, 2011 17:42:04 GMT -5
Hejsan!
I bet cynical1 could chime in with some useful information but maybe I could spare him the effort based on what I've gathered.
First of all where on the fretboard do you get the most buzz? If it's mostly in the frets closest to the nut you may simply need a nut job. Considering your action is as high as it is I'm inclined to believe that might be the source of the buzzing.
Another culprit might be one or two loose frets. There's an easy fix for that which you can do at home with only a few tools.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 3, 2011 18:13:10 GMT -5
...the string action is between 2,7 and 3 mm at the 12th fret i think.... The accepted norm is 5/64" (1.98mm)at the 12th fret for the low E and 1/16" (1.58mm) for the high E at the same point. This can vary depending on your style and how light or heavy handed you are, your string gauge...etc... If the specs you've detailed above are correct, then your action is pretty high. For example, with decimal equivalents, the norm would be .0781 at the low E, while you appear to be at .1181, and if I understand your description, the high E should be around .0625, but your high E is at .1062. Long and short of it is, either you got your measurements off, or you've got some issues to deal with. With action that high you really shouldn't be buzzing anywhere... OK, homework time. Find a long metal straight edge. Something around 24", or around 60 cm. Place one end just behind the nut and with the edge against the frets running it right down the dots towards the bridge. What do you see? Is there a bow...a backbow...or is it straight? If there is a bow\backbow, then where is it? A little bow is common and not a huge issue normally. Something else to look for is a twist in the neck, but lets get the easy stuff out of the way first. Next, find another metal straight edge about 4", or 10 cm long and start working from the nut to the last fret. See if and where it rocks. This will help you isolate high or low frets. Third on the list is the unfretted string height at the first fret. Find a feeler gauge set and record the height of your strings going across the first fret. Looking at the neck, on both sides, do you see any loose frets? Finally, have you recently changed string gauges or changed to a drop tuning? Once you report back with the aforementioned information I can take an educated guess on your next move. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 4, 2011 15:58:09 GMT -5
first of all, thanks for the replies on all my threads, you've been a great deal of help to me!
i have a slight bow on my fretboard(when i fret the 1st and 22nd fret on the low e string, the string height on the 12th fret was somewhere around 1,5 mm). ive been fooling with the truss rod and the string height the last couple of days to see if i could get a little lower action and maybe get rid of the fret buzz(snapped 3 high e strings in the process). i have most fret buzz between say the 5th and 17th fret, no buzz when playing open strings(sometimes i fret out when i bend up on the 12-17th fret on the high e, b and g strings) i got the guitar over a year ago and played it a an hour a day whole last summer and autumn, then around january i got another guitar which ive played mostly, so the guitar has just been standing there and now im fixing it up. the frets seem to sit tight though.
a couple of days ago i actually polished the frets, they were really uncomfortable, really rough and it felt like they struggled with me.
i have an evh wolfgang with stainless steel frets, the action is incredibly low on that guitar and theres no fret buzz anywhere. my goal is to be able to get the action as low as the fretheight will allow me when properly leveled.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 4, 2011 20:41:33 GMT -5
first of all, thanks for the replies on all my threads, you've been a great deal of help to me! You're entirely welcome, but we still haven't narrowed down the problem yet, much less come up with a solution... Everything else in that paragraph is academic. This part is what concerns me. A truss rod adjustment is a delicate thing. Once adjusted you should give the neck 3-4 day to set in before you go adjusting it again. 1/4 turns, to 1/2 turns at most starting out. Imagine driving on ice...big corrections lead to big wrecks... Here's what I'd suggest. Take your metal rule...you did get a metal rule, right?...and take some feeler gauges. Lay the metal rule on edge down the dots of the fretboard and find your highest spot and use the feeler gauges to get an accurate measurement. Next, pull all of your strings. Repeat the process above and record how much the gap decreased, or if it moved on you. Today is Thursday. Leave the strings off and don't touch the guitar until Sunday. On Sunday repeat the aforementioned process again and record the largest gap and the location. Also, with the strings off I want you to walk the metal rule from side to side in the locations the strings would normally occupy and see if the gap changes one way or the other. Your looking for a warp. Report back with your findings Sunday and we'll go from there. Did the guitar come from the factory this way, or did you or a tech set it up in it's current state? Well, we'll do all we can to help you on this trek, but keep in mind that not all guitars can achieve paper thin action. There are many factors involved and shredder guitars are designed for this purpose...hence the large fingerboard radius, beefy frets and thinner string gauges. You put 13's on a shredder guitar and it'll buzz like Hell. I'm still missing answers to some of my earlier questions:
Third on the list is the unfretted string height at the first fret. Find a feeler gauge set and record the height of your strings going across the first fret.
Looking at the neck, on both sides, do you see any loose frets?
Finally, have you recently changed string gauges or changed to a drop tuning?The neck is the most important part of any guitar or bass. Trying to diagnose issues on a forum can be tricky, and never as good as a hands on inspection. But we'll try to get you sorted out and on your way. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by roadtonever on Aug 4, 2011 22:33:05 GMT -5
Feeler gauge = Bladmått  |
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 4, 2011 22:40:06 GMT -5
Feeler gauge = Bladmått Tack så mycket HTC1 |
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 5, 2011 2:30:26 GMT -5
thanks for the detailed answers!
yep my metal ruler(60cm) will arrive in my mail today,aint got no feeler gauges though, gonna have to order one i guess.
Looking at the neck, on both sides, do you see any loose frets?
no loose frets(the guitar isnt old and not played much, wasnt really set up though)
Finally, have you recently changed string gauges or changed to a drop tuning?
the guitar came with 9's, then after half a year i put 10's on it, and now just a few weeks ago i switched back to 9's, but as far as i know, ive always had a little buzzing problem on that guitar, but then atleast the action felt comfortable. no change in tuning.
Third on the list is the unfretted string height at the first fret. Find a feeler gauge set and record the height of your strings going across the first fret.
will check it out as soon as i put strings on the guitar(ripped them because i thought they would only be in the way from that moment till the problem is fixed)
Did the guitar come from the factory this way, or did you or a tech set it up in it's current state?
yes the wolfgang came like that from factory.
the neck on the guitar is quite straight at the moment, just a really slight bow. do you think that i could maybe just try to level the frets and crown them? im really anxious to learn! (ive got a neck that i can practice on)
could you please explain what i would be doing by measuring the height change of the frets before and after string removal ? would that make the neck settle ? would it determine if my trussrod is broken or something ?
thanks again for putting your time into my problems
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 5, 2011 9:37:01 GMT -5
The feeler gauges should be available at any auto parts stores...or what ever the equivalent is over there. A simple set should set you back around 5-10 Euros.
And a guitar doesn't have to be old to have loose frets. They can come bad from the factory, or they can pop based on the changes of the seasons. Ever wonder why you cut your fingers on them in the winter...the dryness of the air causes the wood to contract more then the metal of the frets.
The difference from 9's to 10's can vary as much as 20 kg of tension on the neck. Not excessive, but enough to put you on the borderline of a truss rod/nut adjustment.
Bouncing back and forth, along with a change in the seasons, can have an effect on the neck. With your action as high as it is I'd be surprised if you'd notice it.
Right now you need to evaluate exactly where this neck is before you start tweaking it. With the strings off for a few days you'll have a good idea of where to go.
Dressing frets on a new guitar is not uncommon on the mid range and lower end models. The factory should have done this, but the odds of that happening are going down every year...and the shops just move sales units, so they're not going to set up anything either...unless you pay extra for it...don't get me started...
Long and short of it is that you want the neck as dead straight as possible BEFORE you start trying to level out your frets. You start grinding away with a bow\back-bow in it and you'll only succeed in making the situation worse. Patience, Grasshopper...
If I wasn't at work I'd start putting a list of tools together, but that'll have to wait until later. Somewhere around here I believe I've already played this movie out...anybody got their Search-Fu on?
The strings are exerting a force on your neck. The truss rod is counteracting that. I want to know how much bow is in the neck while it's strung up. Then I want to see it it flattens, back-bows or twists when the strings come off.
Not sure if I interpreted your question correctly, but changes in string gauges, tunings, temperature, humidity, improperly dried or green neck wood, Democrats, Republicans, sun spots...etc...can all make the neck move. It's not uncommon to tweak a 1/4 turn at the change of the seasons, especially on basses.
Probably not. A truss rod is a simple mechanical system that, when properly installed, counteracts the string tension to set the straightness of the neck. It is NOT a device to achieve bitchin' low action. There are other devices and techniques for that.
Stick with this and you can achieve a straight neck, no buzzing and the best action that this guitar is capable of achieving. But I can't stress enough that when working on a guitar neck patience is THE MOST important thing you can cultivate. You start rushing and cowboy the job bad stuff tends to happen. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 6, 2011 7:30:16 GMT -5
ok thanks again for the reply! i received the tools this morning and used the straight ruler to check if the neck was warped. it was really straight, both when i checked with the ruler and with the eye. i guess i succeeded, because after i did the leveling/dressing i put on some old strings to check if it was better or not. its definetely a big improvement, im satisfied! no fret buzz at all at the moment and i've got the action set probably around a mm at the 12th fret!  |
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 6, 2011 14:36:52 GMT -5
Did I go out for popcorn and miss the movie?
Well, glad it worked and the buzz is gone...from the frets...
HTC1
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