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Post by cynical1 on Jan 18, 2012 22:49:44 GMT -5
Just in case it comes as news to anyone, Wisconsin is involved in a very contentious bid to recall their current Governor. This action has only been successful twice in the history of the United States. In 1921, Lynn J. Frazier, Governor of North Dakota, was recalled during a dispute about state-owned industries, and in 2003, Governor Gray Davis of California was recalled over mismanagement of the state budget. That last recall is how Arnold got in as the Governator. Our current Governor, Scott Walker, has managed to really piss off a lot of people...around a million of them signed petitions to force a recall. Only 504,000 signatures were required... Just in case you find yourself with absolutely nothing better to do, you can watch the live feed from the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board's location where they are scanning and certifying said petitions. mirrors.5nines.com/stream/Technology moving at the speed of Government...it makes CSPAN look exciting... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 18, 2012 23:15:50 GMT -5
Our current Governor, Scott Walker, has managed to really piss off a lot of people...around a million of them signed petitions to force a recall. Only 504,000 signatures were required... Holy crap! Wisconsin has a population of less than 6 million. Eliminate about a quarter of them (under 18) and we're down to something like 4.5 million. So almost a quarter of the people who are eligible, have signed a petition against him? |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 18, 2012 23:35:13 GMT -5
They even grabbed enough signatures to recall the Lt. Governor and four Republican State Senators, including the current Majority Leader.
This will languish in court for probably another year at least. I'll be long gone by the time this shakes its way out, so I honestly couldn't care less.
This is what happens, America, when you vote against someone versus voting for someone. You don't get what you want, but you do get what you asked for.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by KIIMH on Jan 19, 2012 0:30:50 GMT -5
Our current Governor, Scott Walker, has managed to really piss off a lot of people...around a million of them signed petitions to force a recall. Only 504,000 signatures were required... Holy crap! Wisconsin has a population of less than 6 million. Eliminate about a quarter of them (under 18) and we're down to something like 4.5 million. So almost a quarter of the people who are eligible, have signed a petition against him? hummm .... coincikence, or mayb im' is not d2os cat, aftre awl? ... teh mistery depens! kyel |
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Post by jcgss77 on Jan 27, 2012 20:35:11 GMT -5
Just in case it comes as news to anyone, Wisconsin is involved in a very contentious bid to recall their current Governor. This action has only been successful twice in the history of the United States. In 1921, Lynn J. Frazier, Governor of North Dakota, was recalled during a dispute about state-owned industries, and in 2003, Governor Gray Davis of California was recalled over mismanagement of the state budget. That last recall is how Arnold got in as the Governator. Our current Governor, Scott Walker, has managed to really piss off a lot of people...around a million of them signed petitions to force a recall. Only 504,000 signatures were required... Ok, so, isn't this the guy who, despite the current economic condition in which most states are facing bankruptcy, or at best are facing a huge shortfall, balanced the state budget? And as a result, life is not so bad. Unless you are a state employee, that is, and you now have to contribute to your own health insurance and pension, which was free up to that point. OHH, NO!!!!!! So, seems to me Mr. Walker should be thanked no one lost their jobs and everyone pays their FAIR SHARE. /rant EDIT: Oh, yeah, I just remembered-didn't property taxes go down for owning residents, instead of increasing along with the trends of most of the rest of the US? |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 27, 2012 23:04:02 GMT -5
You can't believe everything you hear on Fox News...
Let me start off by saying I have no axe to grind here. I am not a Democrat, a Republican, not a State worker and will be long gone from this frozen toilet by the time the recall election ever goes off. I don't care what happens here and I wouldn't lose a moment of sleep if the whole State broke off the Continent and sunk into Lake Michigan.
Here are some insights you will not hear from the talking heads.
State workers in Wisconsin have not had a contract in years. They have not had a raise in 3 years. They will be taking a pay cut over the next two years.
Unlike private sector companies, where pension participation is voluntary, it is mandatory for State workers. With the changes made by this administration the average State worker took a 10% to 20% hit to the wallet...and they can't opt out.
Their pension fund was fully funded by previous administrations. Something very rare in most States.
I can say that some of the policies of previous administrations left the State with some very strange and costly employment practices. These should have been addressed and eliminated. The University system was the worst offender, but you rarely hear them mentioned in most of the sound bytes.
The move against State workers was just an orchestrated ploy to gut the funding from public unions in this State. Fiscally, it wasn't the worst problem they had to deal with. In fact, the policies implemented cost the State millions in lost Federal transportation funding and potential spending.
Changes to the State healthcare safety net will effect the majority of dairy farmers,who have already been squeezed hard. I heard one farmer comment that the reason dairy farms are disappearing from Wisconsin is that pushing your children into the family farm is something akin to child abuse in most States.
The worst problem in this State is lack of infrastructure and incentives for large well paying companies to move here. Wisconsin has lost more jobs then it has created. This is not an exclusive for the State, but wages have dropped significantly. Sadly, when the economy does pick up Wisconsin will see a mass exodus and all the high praise of the current Governor will be a legacy the Republicans will wish they never inherited.
The changes Walker has implemented have some merit. Much of it was agenda driven, but I believe the proper term is the "Tyranny of the majority". The voters in this State felt they had to punish the Democrats and swept most of them out of office. The Republicans took this as a mandate from the people and hit Madison much like the Visigoths hit Rome.
This left the Republicans with control of Governor's office and the State House. They already controlled the judicial. This happens, and God knows the Democrats controlled it all for years. I can thank the Democrats for using their agenda for pushing a wind farm down my throat. I have no love for them either.
Where the whole thing falls apart is in the way he implemented his changes. He came into office confrontational and uncompromising and all that has happened after the Budget Repair Bill is gridlock and derision.
Nothing gets done now without a bevy of lawyers...if anything gets done at all. With the recall elections almost assured, nothing will happen here for another 12-18 months while each side digs in and starts shooting at each other.
The people of Wisconsin are the losers in all of this. Real problems will get tabled as each side attacks and blocks the other.
The genius of the American system has always been compromise. Wisconsin is merely a mirror of what is wrong with American politics today. Compromise is seen as a sign of weakness. Even if one member of the Assembly wanted to reach out there isn't anyone there he can talk to. The troops have all been given their marching orders.
When two sides cling to intractable positions there is no chance for negotiations or progress to occur. Look at the Middle East if you need an example of that fact.
And by the way, the Democratic backed wind farm cost me about $80,000.00 in property values. And the Republican claim of tax relief resulted in an increase of 10% to my tax bill. That's another fact you won't hear from the Koch Brothers or on Fox News...
I have no problem with a Democratic or Republican Governor. I do have a serious problem with agenda driven politics.
Don't be so quick to buy the rhetoric.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by thetragichero on Jan 27, 2012 23:46:33 GMT -5
hey florida would be glad to have you and at least you could make fun of the natives wearing north face jackets when it dips below 55 degrees
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 28, 2012 0:19:22 GMT -5
I have no problem with a Democratic or Republican Governor. I'd have a problem with either party. They're both a bunch of lying bastards, imho. I can say that some of the policies of previous administrations left the State with some very strange and costly employment practices. These should have been addressed and eliminated. Sounds good on paper. In the real world, it's easier to push a rock up hill than to change the status quo. The genius of the American system has always been compromise. It has also become the Achilles Heel. The kind of "compromise" we've gotten in the last 50 years has led to reduced tax revenues while spending increases exponentially. Eventually the credit runs out. State workers in Wisconsin have not had a contract in years. What does that mean? The government and the union can't agree? Whose fault is that? With the changes made by this administration the average State worker took a 10% to 20% hit to the wallet...and they can't opt out. A lot of people in this country haven't had a job in years. Ask them how they'd feel about a 20% cut from what they had been making when they were working. I'll bet most of them would be delighted. Maybe these State workers should try their luck in the private sector. Oh wait ... there's an 8% unemployment rate in Wisconsin. Probably not so easy to find a job. Or maybe they should move South to Illinois. Ooops. 10% unemployed there. Or across the lake, to Michigan. Their unemployment rate has dropped tremendously in the past 3 years. Nah. Even with the decrease, they're looking at 10%. The people of Wisconsin are the losers in all of this. Real problems will get tabled as each side attacks and blocks the other. Yep. And Wisconsin stands to lose in other ways, too. Recall elections aren't free. Regardless of who wins, this is still gonna cost additional money to do, unless it coincides with a regularly scheduled state-wide election. The worst problem in this State is lack of infrastructure and incentives for large well paying companies to move here. That's not a State problem. It's a National epidemic. Infrastructure has been neglected and crumbling while we spend the money playing policeman to the world. Companies that can afford to pay well are generally large enough to play game with taxes. Many of them don't pay a cent in taxes on their profits. They move their corporate offices offshore and pocket the 30% or so they would have paid. The only benefit to the state and federal government revenues is the income taxes on the workers they employ. |
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Post by jcgss77 on Jan 28, 2012 11:22:15 GMT -5
Aha, so now I do have a little more insight to this whole debacle. I support neither the Republicans or the Democrats. I am of the school that believes that the party system should be abolished. It seems to me, that in Wisconsin, the Governer only started fixing their economy. I was also under the understanding that state workers only took an 8% cut, but I do think that the percentage paid back to the state for your own healthcare and pension is only fair when looking at how much the person is being paid. As retread pointed out, when facing unemployment, you can bet which one I am going to take. Especially when I don't have to worry about living on SS when I retire and still have a good job now. I think the people need to not whine about that, I am looking at a very probable layoff this April, and I can't find a job that makes anywhere near what I am paid now. And I am barely making ends meet as it is.
I mean no offense with this, but I am no fan of unions, as I was a member of one once, and have worked alongside many union members of various trades. All that I have experienced of unions is corruption and laziness, with painfully few members actually hard working. Politics have worked into these once glorious organizations, which did once protect workers instead of bank accounts and interests. I paid dues, but had no say to what the union rules were, and because I was so low in the totem pole, I couldn't even attend union meetings. So you can probably figure that I have no problem with union power being limited.
C1, I am sorry that they increased your taxes and forced you to pay for wind power. I am truly sick to death of all of the green energy corporations eating up all our money and then filing bankruptcy, and also farmers left having to conform to the nearly always ridiculous government mandates. Yet another shining example of our country covering their crony interests. Does your governor have a plan on cleaning up wasteful spending in your state? I would say if he is going to overhaul the state and make it profitable, then that is what I would call a good job. Is he serving his own interests in all this change he is making, or is he doing it for the good of the people?
And off topic, I haven't been here in a while. Where are you headed C1?
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 28, 2012 13:53:40 GMT -5
My, what a can of worms I opened here...and all revolving around a place I can't wait to get the Hell out of...
Amen.
Again, Amen. Which explains the contrived justifications for the moves taken. As I said before, the State Employee Pension Fund was fully funded. It still is. The radical adjustment in percentages paid by employees could have been phased in to lessen the hit to State workers and created less of a backlash. government has a fine established history of screwing people by unseen installments. I just don't understand his fury to get this done so combatively.
Obligations to State pensions is a big issue on most States. It's always been used as a perk to attract employees that could earn significantly more in the private sector. It has gotten seriously out of balance with the private sector by comparison.
The difference being that the private sector has taken 10-20 years to slowly increment these changes. Walker did it in one fell swoop. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is going to mobilize the opposition in a New York minute.
Any chance for bipartisan cooperation went right out the window within the first month of his term. If he had any other changes in mind he better be equally as quick with them as the recalls are also going after more Republican Senators. If they lose their seats the Democrats will again control the State House and Wisconsin will go nowhere even is Walker hold his seat.
I would submit that compromise legislation has not been the issue over the past 50 years, and isn't even a topic for debate over the past 20 years.
Agenda based legislation rammed through during periods of majority control by one party or the other has ruled the day here. Cause and effect and common sense have been tabled and have no place in the debate from where I'm sitting.
Wisconsin has always dumped the signing of one contract negotiated by the outgoing Governor on the incoming Governor. This process broke down during Doyle's first and second term.
One thing most people don't know is that while Walker was Governor-elect he made a demand on the outgoing Governor to cease and desist from any\all contract negotiations with the Unions. Odd, considering that by law, the State is required to "negotiate in good faith" with the unions. Of course, a settlement is optional...
Doyle caved and cut off negotiations. The agenda was being put in place even before he got in the seat. Making union contributions a voluntary payment made by the employees was also a calculated move.
Before you raise the hair up on your backs, why do you think payroll taxes are not paid by workers in a similar "you write the check" manner? If it's such a great idea and saves so much money, let's make paying your withholding taxes a quarterly thing like businesses are required to do. See how many politicians you can get behind that move.
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Post by gitpiddler on Jan 28, 2012 23:17:26 GMT -5
Helluva post C1. Good luck in the city.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 28, 2012 23:32:45 GMT -5
Helluva post C1. Good luck in the city. Thanks, gitpiddler. I'm hoping for better days in the bright lights and big city. HTC1 |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 29, 2012 2:54:19 GMT -5
Worminess is. To understand the motivation for immediacy in policy change, you have to analyze the results. Phasing in the percentage paid by employees would severely delay getting out of the hole that's been dug. You still have p  d off people (to a lesser degree), and the near-term results would be far less tangible. People would be feeling less of a "hit", but they'd still feel a hit. And with more hits coming in the future. Any opposition would successfully be able to paint the meager results in deficit reduction as being inconsequential. Look what they did! They took from us to accomplish virtually nothing. You cited a 10-20 year period to "slowly increment" the changes in the private sector. Can you imagine how little effect would be seen within the first few years of similar changes if Wisconsin adopted this kind of timetable? And the economic environment (affecting governmental revenue sources) is far worse than it was 20 years ago. Think about how (and why) we got to where we are now. In times of economic and population expansion, it's easy to defer actually paying for things until the future. A government (or corporation) can get benefits immediately, and will be able to spread the burden over a larger group of people who will each be paying a smaller portion of what has already been spent. It's been a very effective way to jump-start a sluggish economy. In essence a pyramid scheme. It does work. But at some point, it stops being sustainable. The trick is to pay down most of the debt before we reach that point. Guess what point in time we're at. If you guessed at the point where it is no longer sustainable, you'd be wrong. That time has already come and gone. Population growth is slowing dramatically. The percentage of people reaching retirement age is growing. Life expectancy is continuing to increase. All this, at a time when the economic climate is dismal, and we have established a pattern of government spending far exceeding the revenues taken in. We haven't been paying down previous debts. We're adding to the debt at an alarming rate. Dwight Eisenhower had a vision for the future. A system of interstate highways that would connect the country and provide the necessary (transportation) infrastructure needed for a thriving economy. Over time, that vision was brought to reality. But highways, roads and bridges don't last forever. Many of them are now crumbling and neglected. Where will the money to repair and improve them come from? We're already DEEP in debt, our government has been spending like drunken sailors, while the sources of revenue are declining. Bipartisanship is bullcrap. Democrats want to spend and tax. Republicans want(ed) less spending and less taxes. The "compromise" was to spend more, tax less. What was the result of that? Absurd levels of debt. Somewhere along the line, the Republican party lost its identity. Instead of maintaining focus on fiscal responsibility and limiting government to areas where government is the only viable solution (infrastructure, public safety, etc), it joined forces with the "Christian Right". wtf? I don't know anything about Scott Walker other than what's been posted in this thread. I don't know the extent of his "agenda". What I do know is that desperate times require desperate measures. Desperate measures piss people off. Slamming on the brakes severely jostles the riders of the train. Result: p d off people who wanna lynch the engineer. Letting the train run at full speed while gradually coming to a consensus about how to slow down the train as it goes off the end of a washed out bridge kills all aboard. Result: happy, clueless passengers who won't be around to complain. The moral of the story: Either have the balls to hit the brakes, or keep the passengers distracted (and be sure jump off the train before it gets to the bridge). Helluva post C1. Good luck in the city. Ditto. I've been to Chicago. It's an amazing city, though I can't say I envy anyone who has to drive there on a daily basis. That will take a toll on you. (pun intended) Seriously, best of luck.  |
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Post by gumbo on Jan 29, 2012 4:40:03 GMT -5
You could always come Down Here for a visit, C1.... and see that you don't have a monopoly on Elected Idiocy... ...and I GUARANTEE you won't feel the cold...  |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 29, 2012 12:33:59 GMT -5
RT - You won't get an argument from me that Government, in general, has spent all the money, but continues to write checks as they still have checks in the checkbook. To extricate themselves it's either austerity or tax increases. No one likes tax increases, so it's viewed as political suicide to even suggest it. I believe the mantra of "tax increases hurt American jobs" has been overplayed, but that's another story all together. Hell, if the Koch Brothers paid in taxes what they've given to Scott Walker for his recall imagine what the State could do with that money...might even be able to afford some real furniture for the Recall Processing Center at GAB... Here's how I see this all playing out here. Even if Walker gets past this recall he's never going to get a second term. Once the Democrats hold the reins again they will inevitably reverse any initiatives he put in place and start slipping "fees" in on business transactions to generate revenue. It's an old Democratic trick. Generate a fee structure and it slides under most people's radar as it isn't a tax increase by definition. That is the common assumption fostered by many Americans. As I recall, a Democratic President recently left a surplus after leaving office and the next Republican President left us in the hole. Generalization is. Compromise is not a dirty word. In order for negotiation to take place it is essential. People are not chess pieces to be discarded at will. Lip service is not public service. Well, that philosophy worked well on Wall Street. The hole we're in now is a matter of deregulation of financial institutions and non-existent enforcement of regulations under existing laws...and how many time did the Federal Government exercise Preemption on States attempting to bring litigation against these bastards... Bad legislation does not exclusively revolve around taxes and spending. Austerity today is a result of poor or incompetent enforcement, oversight and De-regulation yesterday, not tax and spend or whatever spin this current election season fosters. And if you actually read the Budget Repair Bill it merely took a tangential shot at hitting the brakes. It's available for your perusal if you feel so inclined. docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/10.pdfAnd driving in Chicago is no pleasure. Fortunately they have a fantastic public transportation system that really makes a car academic. No one who lives in the city drives any more than they have to. Cool. I'll add your name to the list of folks I can sponge off of visit while I'm down there. I've had offline conversations with a few of you from down there and admit it sounds better all the time. Any of you guys want to sponsor me for a 457 Employer Sponsored visa? John Cleese said something about Americans being afraid to elect someone smarter than they are...I don't think that's strictly an American thing... Yeah...rub it in... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 29, 2012 22:48:00 GMT -5
To extricate themselves it's either austerity or tax increases. No one likes tax increases, so it's viewed as political suicide to even suggest it. I believe the mantra of "tax increases hurt American jobs" has been overplayed, but that's another story all together. It's a mantra based in reasonably sound logic. Taxes on domestic industry increase the prices of domestically produced goods. US consumers buying more foreign goods is not helpful in expanding the US economy. Instead of increasing the burden on domestic production, we could shift the burden on consumption, regardless of origin. This levels the playing field for domestic producers. Here's how I see this all playing out here. Even if Walker gets past this recall he's never going to get a second term. Once the Democrats hold the reins again they will inevitably reverse any initiatives he put in place and start slipping "fees" in on business transactions to generate revenue. It's an old Democratic trick. Generate a fee structure and it slides under most people's radar as it isn't a tax increase by definition. Likely true. Then where will all the business transactions occur? If you say outside of Wisconsin, I'd guess you're probably right. That is the common assumption fostered by many Americans. As I recall, a Democratic President recently left a surplus after leaving office and the next Republican President left us in the hole. Generalization is. Re-read my previous post. "The next Republican President" you cited fits under the category of "after the loss of party identity". No President, Republican or Democrat has left office with the country out of debt, since Andrew Jackson in 1837. To say that the Democratic President "left a surplus" is misleading. During his presidency, he ran up a total of 1114 billion dollars in deficits and 724 billion in surpluses. Net = $390 billion in DEFICITS. We were deeper in debt when he left than when he came into office. But all things considered, that still looks pretty good. No President after WWII ever exceeded $500 billion in deficits for a single year until 2009. Then it skyrocketed to $1460 billion. 2010 was slightly better at $1312 billion and even better in 2011 at $1299 billion. Perhaps "slightly better" isn't really appropriate when we're talking annual deficits in excess of a trillion. "Not quite as f**ked up" might be more appropriate. What do you think, C1? Compromise is not a dirty word. In order for negotiation to take place it is essential. People are not chess pieces to be discarded at will. Lip service is not public service. Compromise wasn't a dirty word until the politicians turned it into one. Lip service isn't public service. Nor is what our "public servants" had been doing in their "compromises". Well, that philosophy worked well on Wall Street. The hole we're in now is a matter of deregulation of financial institutions and non-existent enforcement of regulations under existing laws...and how many time did the Federal Government exercise Preemption on States attempting to bring litigation against these bastards... Who signed the deregulation legislation into law in 1998? If you guessed the Democratic president you previously cited, you would be correct. Bad legislation does not exclusively revolve around taxes and spending. Austerity today is a result of poor or incompetent enforcement, oversight and De-regulation yesterday, not tax and spend or whatever spin this current election season fosters. Absolutely. It's a systemic problem with numerous lesions. "Not tax and spend" is one of many. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 30, 2012 8:56:57 GMT -5
I suppose that might me more applicable if we still had a manufacturing sector. From where I sit it would appear that the ones screaming loudest for lower taxes are the same ones that have been shoveling jobs overseas for decades.
I'm still waiting for the whole "Trickle Down" thing to start working...well, work for the majority of us. I know what I feel trickling down...
We do seem to open our shop doors to just about everyone...regardless of how reciprocal the relationship is.
This would be a tough sell. Ask yourself how many "Buy American" bumper stickers you see on cars parked at Wal-Mart. Americans are consumption addicted. Cheap imports fuel this. Everyone cries for protection of domestic industries...until the check comes...
It's not just consumers. OEMs have been going down this path for decades. In a competitive manufacturing environment 1%-2% can cost you the contract. So, we import a few bearings, gearboxes...wiring harnesses...circuit boards...sub-assemblies... Finally we just import the whole damn thing.
Once it dawns on business that they can act as a Rep and make a profit with a limited overhead the die is cast.
This whole Global Market dogma is just a marketing ply to put lipstick on a pig and call her Martha. Back in the 90's we exported packaging equipment to Mexico. That's right, we EXPORTED to Mexico. All was going gangbusters until NAFTA. The Peso devalued and our market dropped 90% overnight.
Lesson: Beware politicians bearing trade agreements.
This is where the hole in the boat will become glaringly apparent when they take it out into the water.
On the bright side, there aren't that many businesses left here that it will effect...
"Not quite as f**ked up" works for me. Currently I could use a lot of "Not quite as f**ked up" these days. I have no illusions that any of these custodians of modern spin and derision will ever address the problem, much less fix it. For me, it's time to grab a seat and watch the show.
Eventually the Chinese people will stop buying Chinese Government bond issues to continue bailing us out. That's when it gets interesting.
It will also be interesting to see what currency replaces the dollar as the world currency standard. That's when you know the party is over. Odds are it won't be the drachma...
Again, what compromises? Was Obamacare a compromise? Was mass deregulation of the financial sector by both Democratic and Republican administrations a compromise?
It is the tyranny of the majority that rules the day...and until people wake up to the fact that THEY are the majority and bring a little tyranny of their own these special interests and owners of America will continue to do whatever is in their best interests, and to Hell with anyone anything else.
I don't know who said it first, but "If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow" comes to mind. If the American public want a seat at the table we better get off our asses, snuff out our Camels and take back the Promised Land.
Does that make your hands cleaner? Does it solve the problem, or address future problems if we can assign blame accordingly? This is a major problem I have with Americans in general. What is the point in expending all of your efforts into pointing the finger. Use the whole both damn hand along with your head and fix the problem.
There are still no measures in place to curb rampant speculation as we've seen over the past decade and a half. All we did was push these bastards out of the mud and give them a push. They'll be back, and they'll be just as dangerous as they were before.
There appears to be no initiative to implement curbs on them either. I guess as long as we stay distracted by all the political theater we won't have time to rally behind anything cognitive.
Instead people grab a carload of tarps and camp out to show their dissatisfaction at Wall Street. Heads up folks, if you're going to OCCUPY something, you have to CONQUER it first. This is not dissent...it's more like agenda based camping...
Man...time to put the soapbox away...
And back to the original intent of this post...the Recall Center now has a cool banner heading...and the camera has moved again... There's an interesting chain of events as to why and where it moves continually, but I need this job for a few more months...so I'm keeping it to myself for now.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 30, 2012 10:23:14 GMT -5
I suppose that might me more applicable if we still had a manufacturing sector. We still do. Well maybe not a sector. It's more like a nook or a niche these days. From where I sit it would appear that the ones screaming loudest for lower taxes are the same ones that have been shoveling jobs overseas for decades. They're not screaming any louder than the ones who are still providing domestic employment. There's just so damned many of them that they seem louder. I know what I feel trickling down... Well said. We do seem to open our shop doors to just about everyone...regardless of how reciprocal the relationship is. Yeah. "Free trade" and all that. Grrrr. This would be a tough sell. Ask yourself how many "Buy American" bumper stickers you see on cars parked at Wal-Mart. Americans are consumption addicted. Cheap imports fuel this. Everyone cries for protection of domestic industries...until the check comes... It's a tough sell all ways round. Consumers won't like it because they'd be paying directly. Democrats would hate it for several reasons. First of all, it would "hurt the poor" most. Secondly, if it took some of the burden off of domestic industry, we'd stand a chance of having more people working. Then they'd have fewer poor to protect. Does that make your hands cleaner? Absolutely not. It just means there are dirty hands on both sides. This is not dissent...it's more like agenda based camping... You do have a way with words. |
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