Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 28, 2013 10:05:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 10:05:19 GMT -5
Guys i am not that active lately ... The whole cyprus thing has affected me badly... in mean nationally ... i feel a part of my nation going flush down the toilet like its toilet paper .... I feel so bad about it...... a crime 100%... they attack the best part of hellenism, the best, the purest, the creme de la creme.....
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 28, 2013 15:28:28 GMT -5
Post by cynical1 on Mar 28, 2013 15:28:28 GMT -5
Well, when Cyprus set themselves up as the "Caymans" of the Mediterranean, it only stands to reason that the EU and the IMF would do everything they could to crush it in order to steer control back into their sphere of influence.
This is more a reflection on Western capitalistic greed than any deficiency in Hellenism. IMHO, the World Bank and the IMF are the two biggest threats the world faces...and no one will stand against them.
Your country is not the first to be setup like this. Unless someone stands up to these huge financial manipulators and speculators you likely will not be the last.
This is all so much posturing, as it strikes me that the last thing the EU wants is for a "member" to be expelled. This would set a precedent for other "troubled" states to follow in extricating themselves from the whole EU facade.
Man, don't get me started. And don't feel any shame in this. Nationalism is highly over-rated anyway.
HTC1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 0:31:13 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2013 0:31:13 GMT -5
well, its the first time in years that i felt pain, its not about pride or anything "active", or anything related to shame. It is about seeing the best being under attack.
Cyprus was ages forward in relation to mainland Greeks, in almost every aspect: They speak better, they are more polite, they work better, they think better, they react better, they are more disciplined, more determined, more sophisticated. All the greek public awaited with "anticipation" to see the opening of the Cyprus banks, and to witness all the beatings, the chaos, but Cypriots let them down, they went to their banks in full discipline and order, and unity. My dream was a union between Cyprus and Crete, the strongholds of hellenism. Then this "vehicle" would take over mainland Greece and try to educate them in the basics.
Well, my dream, as you understand collapsed. The empire has shot in the heart. I got two kids, i better prepare them to work in USA/Canada/Australia/Germany/UK....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 0:35:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2013 0:35:00 GMT -5
This is all so much posturing, as it strikes me that the last thing the EU wants is for a "member" to be expelled. This would set a precedent for other "troubled" states to follow in extricating themselves from the whole EU facade. Man, don't get me started. And don't feel any shame in this. Nationalism is highly over-rated anyway. HTC1 very natural question. Why would germany want Cyprus out? Anyway, i see your point about not getting started, but maybe for you it is a 3rd party affair, so it is good and legid to keep clear, but for me... it directly affects me in so many ways. I did not started this thread for any particular reason... I just feel nationally like sh1t.... In the anglo-saxon world you guys have the luxury of not needing to really be nationalists, since you simply are too many! But greeks, being in the range of 8m (exagerated figure, true greeks are less than 2 millions) ... i feel this begins to get threatening... Like a species going to extinction..... I dunno for me it is very crucial.
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 5:19:55 GMT -5
Post by lunaalta on Mar 29, 2013 5:19:55 GMT -5
Hey, I never looked at things in that way before, greekdude. Thanks for the eye (head) opener. ....and good luck for the future.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 8:52:33 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2013 8:52:33 GMT -5
Hey, I never looked at things in that way before, greekdude. Thanks for the eye (head) opener. ....and good luck for the future. thanx man! Gracias!
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 16:55:35 GMT -5
Post by 4real on Mar 29, 2013 16:55:35 GMT -5
I'm not down with the 'true blood fantasies' (I'm not hip to racial superiority theories = racisim)...but...from my home town...
According to the 2001 Australian census, Melbourne has the largest Greek Australian population in Australia (151,785 or around 47%),[3] and the largest Greek population of any city in the World - outside of Greece.[2] Economic bilateral relations between Australia and Greece are worth over A$140 million.[4]
Melbourne is also a sister city to Thessaloniki,[5] Greece’s second-largest city.
...
In Australia, 'greeks' and 'greek culture' is everywhere and a major part of the culture. Greek language is often heard, greek actors are seen in everything from children's TV (playschool, etc) to the soap operas (home and away, etc) and has been so for all my life. many of my friends come from or are so related. But, amny more than the census shows, identify themselves as 'Australian'...and why not...
Cyprus is a contentious issue and complex, but the economic collapse in europe is not, it's not really a grand conspirocy there or any other country struggling at this time. And, there is a real danger in idolising like some 'ayrian fantasy' 'pure cultures' or dividing people into 'real greeks' and presumably 'fakes'...
Unless of course, one thinks that the 104 Million itself is some kind of 'plot' and we should withdrawl out bilateral relations for fear of diluting the 'purity' of a race...
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 29, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5
Post by sumgai on Mar 29, 2013 19:59:50 GMT -5
gd, I feel for ya, man. Here's hopin' you can make it through the darkness ahead. And if not, I think there are several places on this globe where you can find a safe haven for you and your family, should that become necessary.
But let's hope it doesn't.... become necessary, that is.
sumgai
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 2:10:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2013 2:10:47 GMT -5
I'm not down with the 'true blood fantasies' (I'm not hip to racial superiority theories = racisim)...but...from my home town... According to the 2001 Australian census, Melbourne has the largest Greek Australian population in Australia (151,785 or around 47%),[3] and the largest Greek population of any city in the World - outside of Greece.[2] Economic bilateral relations between Australia and Greece are worth over A$140 million.[4] Melbourne is also a sister city to Thessaloniki,[5] Greece’s second-largest city. ... In Australia, 'greeks' and 'greek culture' is everywhere and a major part of the culture. Greek language is often heard, greek actors are seen in everything from children's TV (playschool, etc) to the soap operas (home and away, etc) and has been so for all my life. many of my friends come from or are so related. But, amny more than the census shows, identify themselves as 'Australian'...and why not... Cyprus is a contentious issue and complex, but the economic collapse in europe is not, it's not really a grand conspirocy there or any other country struggling at this time. And, there is a real danger in idolising like some 'ayrian fantasy' 'pure cultures' or dividing people into 'real greeks' and presumably 'fakes'... Unless of course, one thinks that the 104 Million itself is some kind of 'plot' and we should withdrawl out bilateral relations for fear of diluting the 'purity' of a race... your post is so naive i dont know where to start. you got it 180 degrees wrong. it is the BIG ARYANS here (Germany- northern europe - and their mentors-protectors : the mighty west) attacking a small nation (Cypriots) who happen to be the best among a slightly larger nation - greeks. Did i mention hair color? eye color? and all the usual fanfare accompanying all the supposed anti-nazi or pro-nazi argumentation.. No. Because my views are far from NAZI. Excuse me, but the CONSTANT nazi force here is the western aggression, using nations (even constructing some of them : KOSOVO) and then throw them away in the garbage can.... I mentioned culture. YES. Cypriots are better than mainland greeks. IN EVERY ASPECT. and that sums up to : CULTURE. Is culture .... aryan? or nazi? is civilization supposed to be NAZI? or are the western nations THE ONLY ones entitled to civilization? and the rest of us must become a bunch of 3rd world mudjahedins ? or are tagged "mafiozos" "oligarchs" "nationalists" "nazists" every time we dare to develop local civilization or economy? ever thought of that? "MONOPOLY OF CREATIVITY"? anyway, this is my last message in this "mode".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 2:17:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2013 2:17:53 GMT -5
gd, I feel for ya, man. Here's hopin' you can make it through the darkness ahead. And if not, I think there are several places on this globe where you can find a safe haven for you and your family, should that become necessary. But let's hope it doesn't.... become necessary, that is. sumgai thanx man.... you know there was a myth about greece being lazy and disarganized and that served as an alibi for its ecenomical destruction. It was more than a myth. It was simply true. But i see the same arguments about Cyprus as well... what does this tells us??? that attacking Cyprus... GREECE LOSTS ALL HOPE TO EVER BE A DECENT PLACE TO BE!!!! ain't that freakingly satanic? its more than conspiracy... this is a carefully designed crime.
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 3:25:10 GMT -5
Post by 4real on Mar 30, 2013 3:25:10 GMT -5
It only becomes so, when you hold one 'culture' or 'race' above another...that is by definition...but you'd know that surely...
People and cultures do change over time, that is the nature of all things...however...
How is this any different from Germany's previously held romantic ayrian fantasies and plans? Was their dream not erily similarly expressed?
And true, I may well be naive...but such things does not make for your argument to be more persuasive, now does it?
It's not an attitude that would be tolerated well in this country, so you are kind of boxing your children ina bit, the Greek community here is one if not the larget in the world outside of Greece itself. The culture to is alive and well. However, we don't tolerate intolerance too well, claims of superiority, 'cleansing' of race fantasies or all that other baggage that is wearing you down...
You've made many claims. What is the basis for your assertion that the Cypriot Greeks are 'superior' to other greeks, or to others such as the Turkish population or the many nations that have had control over that tiny island. Can you really justify the tragic sectarian violence and cost over the centuries? The claim that cypriots are more 'pure' and 'real' greeks, when there have been so many different rulers and influences over it, how is this so?
Sure, I may be naive, but your assertions require more support than jumping up and down protesting and shouting racial superiority...or how 'easy' it is for 'western nations', etc, etc.
I can assure you the native peoples of my country would disagree with you on how 'easy' it is for them here, that their cultures span back far greater than that of the europeans such as the greeks, or that it has remained 'pure' being absolutely isolated for 60,000 years, up until a mere 200 odd years ago.
...
Cypress has an economy based largely on sevices and a vulnerable one, they put themselves in a position of tax haven to attract and protect Russian money and like the rest of Europe is collapsing. It does not have 'collateral' or resources to 'trade' out of it's situation. It's woes are bringing down the economies of other nations. It's hardly a trade that would lend itself to being 'morally or ethically superior' nor particularly good in terms of financial management, now is it?
Now, what would you have the rest of the world do?
C1 was right in this regard... "This is more a reflection on Western capitalistic greed than any deficiency in Hellenism" ...however, Cypress set out to do this, succeeded at it and built themselves a house of cards that, without anything else by an ethically dubious trade, put themselves at enormous risk.
How can you blame and slander every other nation, no one said...here, create a haven for the ultra rich and criminals in russia and elsewhere who wish to avoid paying taxes and such in their own country or spirit away ill gotten gains...?
It is...is this 'the best' of the astonishing heritage of the greeks, I hardly think so! This is about Hubris and Greed and the end result of such endeavours...i am sure there are many fabulous stories from the rich history of the dangers of such endeavours, but alas it seems they did not heed the truths they imparted.
Another racial slur...anglo-saxon. Now, a reasonable assumption I suppose to suggest we all are, I'll give you that. However, we are far from all the same.
Now, in my country, we celebrate diversity and the cultures that make up what australia is and might become. We do not attempt to make the greeks here become 'australian', australian changes to include the greek culture. Coincidently a greek reseraunt will be opening just down the road, I can't wait. It sits two doors from a japanese one, two chinese ones around the corner, italian, thai, indian, fish and chips....every kind of variation. All the proprietors of these places have heritages and languages and such that make for the diversity and ever changing nature of Australian culture. It is far from being just 'anglo-saxon' and is seen by all to be enriching and ever expanding. Why would you wish for a 'mono-culture' where ethinci minorites bicker between themselves over ancient rivalries of fantasies of superiorities. It is not something that Australian's look well upon as a rule and certainly as official policy and in most respects funcionally as a society.
But then, we don't set ourselves up to be a corrupt tax haven for foriegn tax evaders and think that this is a sustainable situation.
...
"In the anglo-saxon world you guys have the luxury of not needing to really be nationalists"
Really...really. I showed that greek and cypriot and cultures from all over make up and thrive here. Yet, that diversity and harmony is a big part of what makes for Australia's national pride, at it's essence.
It is you that are indulging in the 'luxury' of pitting some races against another. Of biting those that may seek to help cypress out of a mess it built for itself with dubious ethics and in so doing, threaten the economies of europe itself.
But then, I may be naive, but there is nothing in anything you have presented that suggests otherwise. As for sweeping racial slurs and generalisations and assumptions, on your part there are a plenty.
...
You have leaped to a grand consipirocy, a habit of yours it seems. What is the motive, you say 'good question' but fail to address it. There have been systemic failures, disorganisation, denial and corruption in many european nations. They have not the resources to keep afloat and road an investment bubble that popped 5 year ago. Presently, germany is lending to bad debtors to keep things afloat and so their own economy...but you know, you are asking a small power in germany to support practically every disfunctional and badly run economy, while simultaneously attacking the very countries who could concievably bail you out! But, I ask you, who is going to bail out Germany?
I know people in many countries, some in portugal for isntance that are suffering enormously and honestly, their situation is little different and hard to find hope. They don't have a lot of natural resources, but an equally rich heritage I am sure, certainly national pride. As do all these countries. The purpose of teh EU was to bring all these small nations together, but all these national infighting and coruption and such was never going to make that easy.
So, you know....yes, I may well be naive, I am sure I am. But, are you sure you are not just 'ranting' and harbouring the very racial views that are behind all the violence and problems in Cypress now or over Kosovo as you have eluded to and discussed before? If so, calm down and present a cohesive argument, don't attack me or the entire 'anglo-saxon world' and accuse them of having a 'luxury' or a 'conspirocy'...you know, it's a fair enough request to do.
And, hey, there is a direct parallel to what you were saying, it is quite blatant in your words. I can not retract from that, but you might think to perhaps modify your point of view to be more inclusive and less abusive if you want sympathy or solutions...
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 12:54:06 GMT -5
Post by ijustwannastrat on Mar 30, 2013 12:54:06 GMT -5
As somebody on the sidelines of this topic, I feel the need to try to inject a little bit of harmony into this here quandary.
I don't add much to these forums in terms of intelligent discussion, but I do enjoy the relatively easy going atmosphere. Does anybody mind if I ask that all parties involved attempt understand their adversary's perspective on the subject(s), the weight of the subject(s) being discussed in this thread, and the consequences of violating the peaceful environment that we discuss such a beautiful instrument in?
But maybe I'm just steppin' on some toes here...
|
|
|
Post by b4nj0 on Mar 30, 2013 13:52:59 GMT -5
Echo those sentiments IJWS... However, trying to avoid comparison with regimes, the like of which nazi-ism (small "n"!) is a perfect example, the reason why minorities such as these worm their way into positions of power is because the silent majority sit back and say nothing, often in disbelief that anything so abhorrent is transpiring before their collective eyes. I'm confident that older Germans would concur. I live in London (well, 15 miles to the west actually) and we have probably the largest cross section of different nationalities in the world. We also have our fair share of right-wing little Englanders, so please don't suggest that I am naive. Somehow it all seems to work and three cheers for that. It follows that I cannot stand on the sidelines and allow the contributor to "get away" with such errant generalisations about the Greeks, because that is how nazi-ism rose to prominence. It is imperative that such sentiments for a whole nation are kept distinct from ruminations about the sad situation wherein Cypriots find themselves. The Greeks have been really suffering for a long while now, and it must be insulting to have such abject nonsense thrown at them? In my opinion,by and large, it's language that defines nationality, not misguided superiority complexes. Go figure. I sincerely hope that the the contributor is not typical of the whole (half?) Cypriot population. When I went to Cyprus for a holiday about 15 years back, the pension owner (a converted staging post a few miles north of Paphos) took me to task big time for making my own coffee in my room. I didn't take issue, but I did order coffee at 03-00 hours for a couple of nights and then heard no more from him! Did I come away with the impression that all Cypriots were like that? Of course I didn't. People are people the world over, and most are decent human beings. At the hospital where best beloved works, the locum South African surgeons still seem to arrive with undesirable racial opinions, but they usually go back with "updated" points of view! I should feel a little more sympathetic with the stated plight if focus could be directed upon solutions instead of implied inverted racism towards millions of suffering individuals. What really concerns me here is that the actions of the Cypriot authorities do not cause a snowball of lack of faith in banks. It could go global...... Perhaps it would be more constructive to discuss the cancer that is the banking sector,we could do that easily without resorting to such base animal instincts like the cheap fascist statements that have already been aired? Or perhaps we could just return to discussing guitar wiring......
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 13:59:30 GMT -5
Post by lunaalta on Mar 30, 2013 13:59:30 GMT -5
Here, here!
|
|
farren
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
|
Cyprus
Mar 30, 2013 19:45:14 GMT -5
Post by farren on Mar 30, 2013 19:45:14 GMT -5
Ahh... After reading this thread, being completely apathetic to any possible connections between my blood and others who may have shared it countless generations before my parents were born feels even better than ever
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 3:05:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 3:05:05 GMT -5
this thread is the best example of what 10s of years of constant western brainwashing can achieve : severe brain malfunction. Maybe that is why eastern europe is so marginalized and isolated : to prevent the western world from being infected with the virus of thought.
Now i am not sad only for cyprus, i am sad for the whole world.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 3:19:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 3:19:38 GMT -5
Ahh... After reading this thread, being completely apathetic to any possible connections between my blood and others who may have shared it countless generations before my parents were born feels even better than ever in addition, if your country gets bankrupt, isolated, or even bombed, and half the population starts to starve or go abroad to find a job, then i will fully support you to cut off any ties with your family or even your language. That is a certain way that you will live your dream to the maximum. Seriously, i dont know if some people are hypocrites or idiots or a pathetic combination of the two.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 3:23:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 3:23:55 GMT -5
It only becomes so, when you hold one 'culture' or 'race' above another...that is by definition...but you'd know that surely... People and cultures do change over time, that is the nature of all things...however... How is this any different from Germany's previously held romantic ayrian fantasies and plans? Was their dream not erily similarly expressed? And true, I may well be naive...but such things does not make for your argument to be more persuasive, now does it? It's not an attitude that would be tolerated well in this country, so you are kind of boxing your children ina bit, the Greek community here is one if not the larget in the world outside of Greece itself. The culture to is alive and well. However, we don't tolerate intolerance too well, claims of superiority, 'cleansing' of race fantasies or all that other baggage that is wearing you down... You've made many claims. What is the basis for your assertion that the Cypriot Greeks are 'superior' to other greeks, or to others such as the Turkish population or the many nations that have had control over that tiny island. Can you really justify the tragic sectarian violence and cost over the centuries? The claim that cypriots are more 'pure' and 'real' greeks, when there have been so many different rulers and influences over it, how is this so? Sure, I may be naive, but your assertions require more support than jumping up and down protesting and shouting racial superiority...or how 'easy' it is for 'western nations', etc, etc. I can assure you the native peoples of my country would disagree with you on how 'easy' it is for them here, that their cultures span back far greater than that of the europeans such as the greeks, or that it has remained 'pure' being absolutely isolated for 60,000 years, up until a mere 200 odd years ago. ... Cypress has an economy based largely on sevices and a vulnerable one, they put themselves in a position of tax haven to attract and protect Russian money and like the rest of Europe is collapsing. It does not have 'collateral' or resources to 'trade' out of it's situation. It's woes are bringing down the economies of other nations. It's hardly a trade that would lend itself to being 'morally or ethically superior' nor particularly good in terms of financial management, now is it? Now, what would you have the rest of the world do? C1 was right in this regard... "This is more a reflection on Western capitalistic greed than any deficiency in Hellenism" ...however, Cypress set out to do this, succeeded at it and built themselves a house of cards that, without anything else by an ethically dubious trade, put themselves at enormous risk. How can you blame and slander every other nation, no one said...here, create a haven for the ultra rich and criminals in russia and elsewhere who wish to avoid paying taxes and such in their own country or spirit away ill gotten gains...? It is...is this 'the best' of the astonishing heritage of the greeks, I hardly think so! This is about Hubris and Greed and the end result of such endeavours...i am sure there are many fabulous stories from the rich history of the dangers of such endeavours, but alas it seems they did not heed the truths they imparted. Another racial slur...anglo-saxon. Now, a reasonable assumption I suppose to suggest we all are, I'll give you that. However, we are far from all the same. Now, in my country, we celebrate diversity and the cultures that make up what australia is and might become. We do not attempt to make the greeks here become 'australian', australian changes to include the greek culture. Coincidently a greek reseraunt will be opening just down the road, I can't wait. It sits two doors from a japanese one, two chinese ones around the corner, italian, thai, indian, fish and chips....every kind of variation. All the proprietors of these places have heritages and languages and such that make for the diversity and ever changing nature of Australian culture. It is far from being just 'anglo-saxon' and is seen by all to be enriching and ever expanding. Why would you wish for a 'mono-culture' where ethinci minorites bicker between themselves over ancient rivalries of fantasies of superiorities. It is not something that Australian's look well upon as a rule and certainly as official policy and in most respects funcionally as a society. But then, we don't set ourselves up to be a corrupt tax haven for foriegn tax evaders and think that this is a sustainable situation. ... "In the anglo-saxon world you guys have the luxury of not needing to really be nationalists" Really...really. I showed that greek and cypriot and cultures from all over make up and thrive here. Yet, that diversity and harmony is a big part of what makes for Australia's national pride, at it's essence. It is you that are indulging in the 'luxury' of pitting some races against another. Of biting those that may seek to help cypress out of a mess it built for itself with dubious ethics and in so doing, threaten the economies of europe itself. But then, I may be naive, but there is nothing in anything you have presented that suggests otherwise. As for sweeping racial slurs and generalisations and assumptions, on your part there are a plenty. ... You have leaped to a grand consipirocy, a habit of yours it seems. What is the motive, you say 'good question' but fail to address it. There have been systemic failures, disorganisation, denial and corruption in many european nations. They have not the resources to keep afloat and road an investment bubble that popped 5 year ago. Presently, germany is lending to bad debtors to keep things afloat and so their own economy...but you know, you are asking a small power in germany to support practically every disfunctional and badly run economy, while simultaneously attacking the very countries who could concievably bail you out! But, I ask you, who is going to bail out Germany? I know people in many countries, some in portugal for isntance that are suffering enormously and honestly, their situation is little different and hard to find hope. They don't have a lot of natural resources, but an equally rich heritage I am sure, certainly national pride. As do all these countries. The purpose of teh EU was to bring all these small nations together, but all these national infighting and coruption and such was never going to make that easy. So, you know....yes, I may well be naive, I am sure I am. But, are you sure you are not just 'ranting' and harbouring the very racial views that are behind all the violence and problems in Cypress now or over Kosovo as you have eluded to and discussed before? If so, calm down and present a cohesive argument, don't attack me or the entire 'anglo-saxon world' and accuse them of having a 'luxury' or a 'conspirocy'...you know, it's a fair enough request to do. And, hey, there is a direct parallel to what you were saying, it is quite blatant in your words. I can not retract from that, but you might think to perhaps modify your point of view to be more inclusive and less abusive if you want sympathy or solutions... i cannot really respond to pile of unsubstantiated BS. Man, if you lived back in nazi-Germany, you would certainly hold the position of the ministry of propaganda (if you could spell correctly or write without syntax-errors, that is).
|
|
|
Post by b4nj0 on Mar 31, 2013 4:58:26 GMT -5
Please delete period after closing parenthesis.
|
|
farren
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 11:35:09 GMT -5
Post by farren on Mar 31, 2013 11:35:09 GMT -5
Please delete period after closing parenthesis. Well said, parteigenosse!
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 12:22:42 GMT -5
Post by lunaalta on Mar 31, 2013 12:22:42 GMT -5
I feel sad that a member of this forum is upset that his country is in difficulty.
I feel even sadder that other members feel the need to make offensive posts about this situation, although not altogether surprised.
It is about time this thread was closed and members asked to show a little more respect!
Would an administrator please close this thread!
|
|
farren
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 12:26:03 GMT -5
Post by farren on Mar 31, 2013 12:26:03 GMT -5
I am not sure it's that clear-cut.
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 12:29:16 GMT -5
Post by sumgai on Mar 31, 2013 12:29:16 GMT -5
Ahem.... While I don't see that this thread has gotten too personal, it is threatening to do so. Let's remain civil, as it has been so far, shall we? Now, my 2 cents worth. I'll not defend greeddude, he's more than capable of doing that himself. But some of you newcomers need to remember, he is from a different culture, and he does make one mistake here on this forum - he tends to forget that newcomers don't have the back-story that's been given to us in bits and pieces over the last year. In short, gd is not some young idealist, focused too narrowly on what some of you might perceive as one issue, that of nationalism. (BTW, saying "nazi-ism" with a small n! is indicative of very unfavorable, and thankfully small, segment of humanity, that which believes first and foremost in "Might Makes Right".) No, gd is not all about nationalism for the sake of promotion of a dream, nor restoration of same, but I'm gonna leave you all to figure out just what he is trying to say, what he really wants, and if you're of a mind, then how to ask him to make himself more clear. But just remember, different cultures have different perceptions, so some "translating" will need to be applied in order to derive the full import of the discussion, from all sides. In my opinion,by and large, it's language that defines nationality, not misguided superiority complexes. For a better understanding of this sentiment, let me recommend to one and all that the definitive authorities on this topic are Jack Vance (The Languages of Pao) and Philip Jose Farmer (Time's Last Gift). I should feel a little more sympathetic with the stated plight if focus could be directed upon solutions instead of implied inverted racism towards millions of suffering individuals. Well, that's always a no-brainer, but consider - if you don't even recognize the need for a solution in the first place, how can you derive such? Discussion of same is not whining, if kept in check, it's a way of defining the problem to be solved. Now i am not sad only for cyprus, i am sad for the whole world. 'dude, now you've just fallen into b4nj0's trap. It's OK to weep for someone, or several someones (I know, bad English, but sometimes....), but it's not OK to weep for an ideal that includes everyone in the whole world - that is exactly what the others here are accusing you of, promoting an ideal that should be applied to everyone, regardless of their desires. No matter how "good" an ideal is, chances are excelent that some portion of the world's population will not feel the same way as you do. 'Nuff said. i cannot really respond to pile of unsubstantiated BS. Man, if you lived back in nazi-Germany, you would certainly hold the position of the ministry of propaganda (if you could spell correctly or write without syntax-errors, that is). OK, that's it, now the kid gloves are coming off. gd, that was not called for. An opinion is nothing more than a belief in the best way to perceive something that impinges on one's reality. It follows that everyone here is entitled to express their opinion on equal footing. The fact that you and 4real don't always see eye-to-eye (hell, who am I kidding.... you guys seldom see things eye-to-eye) doesn't mean that you get to start in on his writing skills - neither of you have anything to be ashamed of, at least not in that department. Please delete period after closing parenthesis. It would seem that I'm becoming a referee, and that's absolutely not what I want! Steve, understand that English is not greekdude's Mother Tongue. He does more than well enough, all of us can easily understand him, and most of us have no problem making allowance for the very occasional mistake. Let me gently suggest that you do the same, please. And take it from an old-school Chicago Manual Of Style adherent, it is correct to close one's sentence with a period, even it directly follows a closing parenthesis. Only when ending a sentence with a web address that appears on a web page (meaning not in a dead-tree edition) does one get to delete that period.... leaving it in fouls up the link recognition engine, and the link doesn't work as intended (if at all). Or perhaps we could just return to discussing guitar wiring...... Absolutely not! This sub-Forum was set up exactly for this kind of topic. If you/we/all of us want to talk about wiring, there's a sub-Forum expressly for that. Call it "don't take your work home with you" if you wish, but newey and I feel very strongly (and we're backed up by the continued membership of many contributors) that non-guitar related topics should have a place where they can be given some daylight, and without fear of being trashed for "off-topicness". The fact that anyone feels strongly enough about a burr under their saddle that he/she wants to let others know about it, that's downright necessary for a healthy and productive society as a whole, not just for the individual. A call for discussion is even more healthy, IMO, and if nothing else, greekdude deserves accolades for making most of us think about something that is quite "laundered" in the American journalistic media. Summary:I don't expect anyone to kiss and make up, but I do expect civility here in The NutzHouse. Let's keep up the chatter, but let's not resort to sniping at the little stuff that doesn't really contribute to the main topic, OK? (Well, gumbo will still go ahead and derail the thing, there's no teaching him to act like an adult! ) Thanks. sumgai
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 12:35:39 GMT -5
Post by sumgai on Mar 31, 2013 12:35:39 GMT -5
lunaalta, Sorry, but no, we won't close this thread. It is exactly on target, and until it reaches a point where the Ban Hammer needs some exercise, then I see no reason to close it. Unless my dissertation above failed to garner your approval in some respect? farren's correct, no part or aspect of this whole thing is clear-cut. sumgai
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 13:56:46 GMT -5
Post by lunaalta on Mar 31, 2013 13:56:46 GMT -5
More than happy with a little gavel bashing, sumgai.
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 15:32:07 GMT -5
Post by 4real on Mar 31, 2013 15:32:07 GMT -5
i cannot really respond to pile of unsubstantiated BS. Man, if you lived back in nazi-Germany, you would certainly hold the position of the ministry of propaganda (if you could spell correctly or write without syntax-errors, that is). Thanks for reprinting every single word I typed, again. As someone for whom english and english expression is not their first language, It's a bit of a cheap shot to pick on my idiocyncratic speed typos. Unlike you however, much of this was directly in response to what you wrote yourself, where as nothing in this response addresses anything. I did take the time to read a few articles while writing the above, it is not just 'opinion'...same as my previous post, largely taken from census data straight out of wiki, not just my 'impression' of it... You have made radical and racists claims, I have not. You are suggesting that one race sect is superior to others and even that they 'overthrow' others and effectively 'clense' the less 'pure blood' of people you regard as 'not greek enough'. All of these have direct parallels to the 'purification' of nazi groups all over the world... Similarly, you are suggesting a world wide conspirocy, of which apparently I am a part...as well as all the rest of 'us' "anglo-saxons" who live in the 'luxury' of...etc, etc... These are extrodinary claims, yet you offer no 'evidence' or justification for these assults or points of view. When asked, you scream 'nazi'... ... Let's take this statement for instance... I really don't think that your response even attempted to 'start' or explain yourself... You see these 'big aryans' (specifically germany) attacking cypress. Did I miss something. How so? Cypress willingly engageded in a dubious, ethically bankrupt tax haven scheme to make a quick buck by protecting the wealth of the ultra rich and criminals wishing not to pay taxes or have their fincances transactions scrutinised. They based their economy on this. They don't 'make things' in cypress, 3/4 of the economy is in the service industry, banking, real estate and tourist type stuff. Really, this is the "great culture" that you are upset about losing! Oh yeah...back that claim up. If ever that was a claim of a superior race, what is!!! And so, as the only european country with any capacity to keep afloat the economy of any of the other failed small nations in the EU...you are accusing them of attacking cypress and making thems suffer and destroying the culture. Excuse me, did I miss something. Exactly 'how' is this being done...but lending a bunch of lazy morally bankrupt business people and a nation that was profiting off the ill gotten gains of organisations like the russian mafia...without any means of resources or trade to support this economy! And these, these are the people you are promoting as the 'creme de la creme' of civilisation...really, that's what you think...is it? Right, hmmm. So what are you saying? What is the demise of the 'empire' and culture then? Lets face it, grece is not alone in the way it has been operating or the effects of the economic climate. They gambled and grew fat on the fantasy world of 'investments' and in cypress, the even more ethically dubious 'tax haven' status. All the time bickering and fighting and killing and ahting (as you continue to do) while the civilisation consumes itself. Why should we be pouring millions into greece in Australia. Lets see, we ahve a strong connection with it and it's heritage. But, we are not ourselves in the EU so we gain nothing. We helped liberate greece from the Nazi's if you recall...and yet, the 4th largest 'party' in the present day is the greek nazi party, golden dawn...you wouldn't be a member would you, you certainly got the retoric down... www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/magazine/108848/the-terrifying-rise-greeces-nazi-party#So don't scream at me or accuse me and 'everyone' a nazi or cry about the 'purity of the greek culture' or that of cypress. Look at your culture and see it's own destruction from teh very attitudes you are propergating. And be aware, that you are promoting yourself as exactly the kind of 'citizen' that we would not want down here from any culture. Personally, I'd not invest a dime into a culture that had no resources and promoted and propergated crimes against other peoples, cut them off, let the economy fall and turn it into a museum for what it once was, not what it has become or as a monument for the kinds of attitudes you are promoting. Now, if the best you can offer in resonse to these things is a critique of my lack of a spell checker or 'poor typing skills'...fine, but it holds no water. Now, if you would like to offer some solutions, admit where it all went wrong and explain how, with growing violence and lack of tangible resources, lack of any kind of unity and killings on the ground you'd see how greece could 'save itself' without the help of other nations. Cool. To me, the whole things looks like a bad investment that should be written off, I'd not felt that way before, but you have opened my eyes to the blind hate and lack of creativity and action and solutions to these problems. Greece, like many nations, have been living for a very long time off of speculation and without collateral or resources like many nations. Can one expect anything less than for it to fall, if it is going to engage in such activities? And your 'solution' is straight out of the 'final solution' playbook is it not? Now, come up with a better solution than complaing, hate and violence...because I can assure you, the rest of the world will be looking to screen out such terrorists should they ever try and leave!
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 16:04:38 GMT -5
Post by JohnH on Mar 31, 2013 16:04:38 GMT -5
If you guys can calm down for 5 minutes, I’ll tell you my own small Cyprus story.... It relates to a piece of artwork, actually two frescos. I'm hesitant to post it but I thinks it's relevant because its a case of how sometimes good people working together can make things better. The fresccos came from a small 13th century Byzantine chapel, at Lysi in Northern Cyprus and were removed illegally following Turkish occupation (1974?) The works were cut into pieces, and offered for sale to Dominique de Menil, founder of the Menil museum in Houston. On finding that they were illegal, she arranged to acquire them on behalf of their rightful owners, the Church of Cyprus, and restore them in return for a 20 - year licence to display them in her museum. They ended up in London, to be worked on by a small team of art restorers based at a warehouse in Greenwich. My firm of engineers had been deeply involved in the design of Mrs de Menils museum, and so she asked us to give whatever technical support was needed to help the restorers. As a young structural engineer interested in geometry and design, I was privileged to be involved in this task. The two main issues for me were to help the restorers work with the 3d geometry of the original dome and half dome shapes and produce a mold and frame into which the pieces could be placed. The originals were irregular and about 3 to 4 m in diameter, but had been rudely sliced into smaller flatish sections. They were beautiful but extremely delicate. I recall spending several careful days measuring each piece, then assembling them in a computer to work out a geometry. This being 1986, it was not very easy. This work ended up with a shape in which the original pieces were placed, with support inside and outside. A scary moment was when they had all been placed into upside down dome shapes, and it was time to flip the whole thing over to work on the back! I moved onto other things, but the frescos were successfully restored, and displayed in a glass chapel at the museum. But more recently, they have been returned to Cyprus as agreed, which is where they belong: The Menil Collection to Return Byzantine Frescoes to Greek Orthodox ChurchJohn
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 16:35:26 GMT -5
Post by 4real on Mar 31, 2013 16:35:26 GMT -5
To clarify, I was not privy to the call for this thread to be closed or that I was percieved to be...
It is not 'respect' to stand by and nod one's head to racisim where it is experessed or to defend oneself with facts and asking for clarification and less outright abuse...
...
GD purposly and openly came to this forum because he felt 'persecuted' and spoke disparaging about his views on several subjects on a greek language guitar forum.
His intolderance towards me has been enough to make myself 'scarce' at his request. Much of his advice and suggestions have very dubious worth and in any other context would be warned against or at least be discussed in a rational and civilised way.
And, occassionally, he will post these 'rants' of nationalisim, in this case regarding cypress, in a previously similarly outrageous thread, his wifes home country.
So, I've withdrawn from this till it all settles down, but I can't just sit back and have this kind of hate and irrational unspported 'propaganda' perpetrated and, one assumes that if one is going to put such contentious views in an open discussion forumj, some are going to take exception, or at least disagree with these radical thoughts and anger.
No, it is not the first time that I've been critisized for things like using the 'same old gproject guitars' as examples, etc. Or having a different perspective on 'sustain' or any thread that he posts. I suspect that most people will see that the quality and types of 'repairs' attempted and failed would normally, in this forum, be corrrected. As I ahve beenasked not to contribute to this...censorship without even the authority of moderation'...I've shown respect (to the forum) to just bow out for fear of having my head cut off or in fact, accused of being 'insulting' or showing a lack of 'respect'...
Exactly what do I get out of this but some distress, a waste of my interlect and effort and time...I'll not be wasting it trying to correct, or prevent the ludicrous suggestions that now pepper this forum...weather that be the 'fixing' of a guitars with "mixing soda powder with this greek wood glue", or the racist rantings such as these.
No, I don't see 'eye to eye' with this kind of advice or attitudes and I do have sorrow if I am percieved to be 'disrespectful'...but that's just too bad. I'll not be 'nodding my head' or seeing this forum which an enormously valuable resource, be continually brought down by bad advice, biased or baseless opinion or outright racisim here.
I will respect enough to leave you guys to it, but not legitimise these things by silence...
I have enormous sympathy and empathy for most things, but you know what, that does not equate to condoning this kind of thing, I'm not about to start now. If you don't like it, don't read it or don't print it!
Perhaps when this forum does 'settle down' to it's more normal programming...I might be more enthused about doing some more projects or seeking advice publically myself. But make no mistake, these are outright racist points of view and I like anyone else, has a right to call him on these issues or at least have these claims properly explored and explained. Till then, I'll 'respectfully' take more of a back seat till the likes of GD settle down and there is something of value that I can safely contribute to that is helpful or can publically ask for advice and make mistakes and explore ideas without a hail of personal abuse from a certified incompetent racist, or at least one who present himself as such and makes no effort to explain or back up his claims, but to counter accuse me as being a member of a grand conspirocy and it's "minister of propaganda"!
|
|
farren
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 20:20:03 GMT -5
Post by farren on Mar 31, 2013 20:20:03 GMT -5
I'm an outsider here (though perhaps not to this thread as it's been indirectly implied that I am a "hypocrite, idiot, or pathetic combination of the two," something I laughed off and was not offended by in the least), but I must add an observation in the interest of this thread not appearing as if some argument between morally equivalent actors on opposite sides of a contentious issue: I can see no way that any amount of respect for the concept of cultural relativism could possibly be enough to allow an objective onlooker to interpret many of the views expressed in this thread by greekdude as anything but inherently racist views.
It's off-putting stuff to say the least, but I'm glad he's been taken to task for it. No amount of sympathy for whatever tough situation--which I do not diminish in the least--that he may be going through is sufficient grounds to give him a free pass on what is in essence hate speech.
|
|
|
Cyprus
Mar 31, 2013 20:28:26 GMT -5
Post by gumbo on Mar 31, 2013 20:28:26 GMT -5
....now, about the Gall Bladder operation that I had last week.....
|
|