Measured Electrical Values of Popular Telecaster Pickups

[antigua]

I've performed electrical measurements on nearly all of my Telecaster pickups, only omitting the more obscure pickups, such as ceramic cheapos and those whose origins I'm unsure of. There's so much info here that I should be putting it in a blog, but after looking into my options, I've decided I want to make this info available ASAP and worry about a more permanent place to put it later.

Here's a list of the pickups tested below:

Fender Original Vintage Telecaster Set
Fender Nocaster Telecaster Pickup Set 
Fender Blackguard Telecaster Set
Fender Pure Vintage '58 Telecaster Pickup Set
Fender Pure Vintage '64 Telecaster Pickup Set
Fender Texas Specials for Tele Set
Fender Twisted Tele Set
Bill Lawrence Keystones Telecaster Set
DiMarzio Twang King Pickup Set
Joe Barden Gatton T-Style Pickup Set
Seymour Duncan Antiquity Telecaster Pickup Set
Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound for Tele Set



Some observations about Telecaster pickups...


The cover material on the Tele neck has a huge effect on its high end response

The bode plot below shows a drop in Q factor associated with a) no cover, b) Nickel Silver covers, and c) brass covers. The lower the curve, the lower the treble response. The worst is obviously brass. Of the tested pickups, it only appears that Seymour Duncan uses the cruddy brass covers, for if you look at the resonant peaks of the Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound for Tele and Antiquity Tele pickups down in the measurement section, where you expect to see a nice resonant bump, you instead see an abrupt drop off at the resonant frequency. All of Fenders pickups use Nickel Silver and have a characeristic hump at the resonance, as apparently does the DiMarzio Twang King. All of the Fender "Made in Japan" Tele pickups I've tested also feature the lossy brass covers. I'm still waiting to get my hands on a Fender Mexico example. The Bardens and Lawrence Keystones have no cover, so their Q losses are caused solely by their core metals. 



Speaking of Q factor, I've found that AlNiCo 3 reduces the Q factor somewhat more than AlNiCo 5, perhaps contributing to a slightly softer high end with the AlNiCo 3, on top of the lower flux density, and less resultant lower output voltage. 



The base plate on the Tele bridge doesn't

Here's a NoCaster Tele bridge out of a MIM Triple Tele. The measured inductance with the base plate is 3.592 Henries, and when the base plate is removed, the inductance drop to only 3.391H, a difference of only 201 millihenries. The graph below shows the resonant peak only dropping about 300Hz, with a slight drop in Q due to eddy current losses caused be the base plate. I wouldn't say the base plate is critical to this pickup's tone, based on these figures. 



The base plate is also permeable, so it increases the magnetism of the pole pieces slightly. I measured the low E pole piece increase from 600 Gauss to 620 Gauss with the base plate added, with comes out to a 3% increase, which means nothing to the tone. It takes a substantially larger increase in flux density in order to get an audible effect. For example, the difference between AlNiCo 3 and AlNiCo 5 is 600G versus 1100G at the pole tops. That's a difference that matters. 

It's true that this NoCaster bridge from the Triple Tele differs a from the one in the measureents below by 300mH, which is a rather large deviation for a given pickup model. That's Fender for you.





There's a remarkably high capacitance on the neck pickups.

Up to this point, I've only tested Strat pickups and a few PAF clones. I've typically calculated parasitic capacitance to be between 70pF and 140pF, but with these Tele neck pickups I'm seeing capacitance from 200pF to 300pF. The result is that these pickups have a much lower resonant peak than Strat pickups of similar inductance (because the resonant peak is lower when any combination of the inductance or the capacitance is higher).

My best guess as to the cause is that these coils seems to be wound MUCH tighter than Strat pickups.

Here is a Texas Special neck compared to a NoCaster neck pickup with the cover removed. The Texas Special's overall coil width is 0.4890", and the pole pieces are 0.1875", so the coil accounts for 0.3015" of the overall coil width. The NoCaster's overall width is only 0.3737" with pole pieces that are 0.1885", so the coil's contribution is "0.1852, so the Texas Special's coil is nearly 40% thicker at the waist. The NoCaster's coil is 14% taller, and is making use of 43 AWG to the Texas Specials' 42AWG. 43 AWG is 12%, but combining the taller coil and the finer wire still suggests that the NoCaster's 43 AWG is wound more tightly in order to result in a coil that is only 60% as thick. When a coil is wound more tightly, the conductive wire will be closer together, resulting in higher parasitic winding capacitance, and so this is where I choose to place the blame. The 43 AWG wire should actually result in less capacitance, all other things being equal, since 43 AWG has about 13% less surface area than 42 AWG. 



The cover also represents added capacitance, but because there is a healthy amount of space between the coil and the cover, I calculated that the Fender Nickel Silver covers add no more than 7pF capacitance, which is a drop in the bucket. I calculated the capacitance with and without the cover, and it clearly had nothing to do with the high capacitance, and when you remove the cover of a Tele neck pickup, the only thing setting it apart from a Strat pickup is wire gauge and coil geometry. 

This high capacitance appears to put the loaded resonant peak in the area of 3.5 to 3.8kHz, which is "hot" by Strat standards, which, with their lower capacitance, have loaded peaks closer to 4kHz. This, along with the lack of a lossy metalic pickup cover, make a case as to why Stratocaster neck pickups are generally preferred over Tele neck pickups.




Pickup Measurements

The bode plots show "loaded" and "unloaded" voltage responses by frequency. 

The unloaded plots is purely the pickups with the small capacitance and loaded imparted by the integrator circuit. These are the most true, unbiased values of the pickup. In order to ever hear a pickup in the context of it's unloaded values, you'd have to wire the pickup straight to the amplifier, with a guitar cable that is no more than 4 inches in length, which is impractical. 

The "loaded" plot adds parallel resistance and capacitance that are typical in an actual guitar setup in order to show how the pickups perform in situ. The values are 200k ohms resistance, to approximate potentiometers, and 470pF capacitance to approximate a guitar cable, as well as the parasitic capactiances of various electrical components and conductors along a typical signal chain. Those values were also chosen because they're standard values that are easy to come by. 

If the "hill" at the resonant peak is taller and sharper, meaning a high Q factor, the pickup will have a brighter tone, but more important than the Q factor is the specific frequency of that peak, because it is beyond that peak where the pickup's frequency response drops off very sharply. A pickup with a resonant peak of 4kHz and a Q factor of 1 (virtually flat) is still going to sound a lot brighter than a pickup with a resonant peak of 3kHz and a Q factor of 5 (very tall), because you're losing 1kHz worth of content between 3kHz and 4kHz, regardless of the high Q factor. Therefore, I'd look at the value of the loaded peak frequency first, and then the "hill", or Q factor second, if I'm trying to guess how these pickups compare by looking at the frequency plots. The Q factor does matter though, as it's the sole reason you get a brighter tone when you switch from 250k pots to 500k pots. 

All of the covered neck pickups appear to use Nickel Silver, except the Seymour Duncans. All the pickups are using either AlNiCo 3 or AlNICo 5, which you can deduce form the Gauss readings, the AlNiCo 3 will ready around 600 while the AlNiCo 5 will read closer to 1000 - 1100. The Bardens have a ceramic bar on the underside. 

These are all stats I've gathered, none of this is sourced from the internet or product information. Ken Willmott provided the integrator circuit used to filter the +20dB/decade slope that otherwise appears in an induced voltage by frequency bode plot. 



Fender Original Vintage Telecaster Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 6.78K ohms
- Measured L: 3.566H
- Calculated C: 170pF (180 - 10)
- Gauss: 650G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.37K ohms
- Measured L: 2.324H
- Calculated C: 353pF (363 - 10)
- Gauss: 575G
- Coil width: 0.3737"
- Coil height: 0.527"
- Pole piece diameter: 0.1885"
- Wire diameter: 0.00220" (43 AWG)

Bridge unloaded: V: 2.6dBV f: 6.29kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-3.3dBV f: 3.10kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-3.1dBV f: 5.48kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-6.3dBV f: 3.40kHz (gray)



This pickup has "52" written on the bottom of the neck bobbin, leading me to wonder if the Original Vintage and the Pure Vintage '52 are one and the same. Both use AlNiCo 3 and have similar DC resistance specs as well. 






Fender Nocaster Telecaster Pickup Set 
Bridge
- DC Resistance: 6.84K ohms
- Measured L: 3.821H
- Calculated C: 133pF (143 - 10)
- Gauss: 560G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.33K ohms
- Measured L: 2.168H
- Calculated C: 321pF (331 - 10)
- Gauss: 500G

Bridge unloaded: V: 5.9dBV f: 6.81kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-1.3dBV f: 3.13kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-4.4dBV f: 5.94kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-7.4dBV f: 3.59kHz (gray)



The NoCaster set doesn't appear to be much difference from the Original Vintage set. Both sets also use enamel wire. The inductance differ slightly, but it's hard to tell if that's intentional or not. 




Fender Blackguard Telecaster Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 7.50K ohms
- Measured L: 4.103H
- Calculated C: 114pF (124 - 10)
- Gauss: 1000G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.35K ohms
- Measured L: 2.245H
- Calculated C: 233pF (243 - 10)
- Gauss: 550G

Bridge unloaded: V: 2.3dBV f: 7.05kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.5dBV f: 2.99kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-7.7dBV f: 6.81kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-1.7dBV f: 3.76kHz (gray)



You can see from the Gauss readings that they indeed used AlNiCo 5 in the bridge and AlNiCo 3 in the neck. The 4 Henries on the bridge pickup put it among the hotter Tele bridge pickups. I found less parasitic capacitance in this neck pickup compared to the others, though it's still high compared to a Strat pickup.

The neck pickup also has "52" written on the bottom, leading me to wonder if the Original Vintage, Blackguard and Pure Vintage '52 sets all include the same neck pickup.






Fender Pure Vintage '58 Telecaster Pickup Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 6.72K ohms
- Measured L: 3.169H
- Calculated C: 124pF (134 - 10)
- Gauss: 1100G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.48K ohms
- Measured L: 2.074H
- Calculated C: 253pF (263 - 10)
- Gauss: 1000G

Bridge unloaded: V: 3.2dBV f: 7.72kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-3.9dBV f: 3.47kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-3.1dBV f: 6.81kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-7.0dBV f: 3.72kHz (gray)



This pickup is more modern, with white string around the bridge coil, and staggered pole pieces. AlNiCo 5 all around. 






Fender Pure Vintage '64 Telecaster Pickup Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 6.58K ohms
- Measured L: 2.684H
- Calculated C: 148pF (158 - 10)
- Gauss: 1000G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.63K ohms
- Measured L: 2.099H
- Calculated C: 256pF (266 - 10)
- Gauss: 1050G

Bridge unloaded: V: 1.1dBV f: 7.72kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.0dBV f: 3.68kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-3.3dBV f: 6.73kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-6.8dBV f: 3.72kHz (gray)



This set is a lot like the Pure Vintage 58, but features gray flatwork, and the bridge pickup is surprisingly low output at only 2.6 Henries. If you're aiming for bright, low output set, this might be an ideal purchase. 



Fender Texas Specials for Tele Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 10.26K ohms
- Measured L: 3.668H
- Calculated C: 149pF (159 - 10)
- Gauss: 1100G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 9.35K ohms
- Measured L: 2.917H
- Calculated C: 191pF (201 - 10)
- Gauss: 1100G

Bridge unloaded: V: 4.0dBV f: 6.58kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.1dBV f: 3.24kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-3.3dBV f: 6.66kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-7.3dBV f: 3.43kHz (gray)



It looks like the bridge pickup is wound with 43 AWG, with a high resistance for a modest inductance. The neck pickup appears to be very overwound for a Tele neck. This is a very dark set, I'm not a fan.




Fender Twisted Tele Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 10.71K ohms
- Measured L: 4.120H
- Calculated C: 106pF (116 - 10)
- Gauss: 1000G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 6.18K ohms
- Measured L: 2.078H
- Calculated C: 219pF (229 - 10)
- Gauss: 1100G

Bridge unloaded: V: 4.5dBV f: 7.29kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-4.4dBV f: 3.03kHz(red)
Neck unloaded: V:-6.0dBV f: 7.29kHz(green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-9.0dBV f: 3.89kHz (gray)



This set appears to use 42 AWG for the neck pickup, which is also much taller than a typical Tele pickup, but despite the side, the inductance is low at 2 Henries. The bridge appears with be over wound with 43 AWG, is shorter in height than usual, and has a very high inductance at 4.1 Henries. The bridge is very dark, the neck is rather bright, comparable to a medium output Strat neck, such as a Fat 50 or Texas Special neck.






Bill Lawrence Keystones Telecaster Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 7.71K ohms
- Measured L: 3.221H
- Calculated C: 78pF (88 - 10)
- Gauss: 1050G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.00K ohms
- Measured L: 1.955H
- Calculated C: 97pF (107 - 10)
- Gauss: 930G

Bridge unloaded: V: 1.6dBV f: 9.48kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-7.9dBV f: 3.72kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-2.3dBV f: 11.0kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-9.0dBV f: 4.62kHz (gray)



This set has no cover of course, there are exposed pole pieces, so the Q factor is very high, like a Strat neck. The inductance and capacitance are also very low, and so this pickup achieves very high resonant peaks. These pickups are very bright. The choice of base plate on the Bill Lawrence Keystone bridge appears to cause higher eddy losses than the base plates used by Fender. 








DiMarzio Twang King Pickup Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 8.07K ohms
- Measured L: 3.397H
- Calculated C: 170pF (180 - 10)
- Gauss: 1050G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 6.46K ohms
- Measured L: 2.202H
- Calculated C: 197pF (207 - 10)
- Gauss: 1000G

Bridge unloaded: V: 3.5dBV f: 6.43kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-3.3dBV f: 3.21kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-6.5dBV f: 7.46kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-7.8dBV f: 3.72kHz (gray)



These are very middle of the road pickups, comparable to Fender's pickups, as sort of an average of all of them. AlNiCo 5 with medium output coils, and a quality Nickel Silver cover. 

Also, it appears that the neck pickup might be wound with 42AWG. 6.5k resistance and 2.2H inductance looks like a combination of values more commonly seen from coils wound with 42 AWG.



Joe Barden Gatton T-Style Pickup Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 4.42K ohms
- Measured L: 2.359H
- Calculated C: 324pF (334 - 10)
- Gauss: 460G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 4.11K ohms
- Measured L: 2.503H
- Calculated C: 334pF (344 - 10)
- Gauss: 470G

Bridge unloaded: V:-0.7dBV f: 5.67kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.2bBV f: 3.47kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-1.3dBV f: 5.42kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.9dBV f: 3.40kHz (gray)



These were supposedly the first rail pickups on the market, which were subsequently copied hardcore by both DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan. 

The resonant peaks are rather low even though these pickups sound very bright to my ears. Maybe this is a case where the form factor of the pickup is more substantial than the electrical distinctions. It seems to be the case that side by side humbucking coils make for brighter pickups even when the resonance is lower. The technical cause for the low resonance appears to be capacitance coupling between the coils and the grounded blades that are in the core of the coils. If that ground connection was broken, these pickups would probably become even brighter. 

The measured Gauss is only 460G, despite the ceramic bar, since the steel blades are only able to generate so much magnetic flux in response to the ceramic bars. It's no different than a PAF or P90 in that respect. 






Seymour Duncan Antiquity Telecaster Pickup Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 6.75K ohms
- Measured L: 2.567H
- Calculated C: 156pF (166 - 10)
- Gauss: 1050G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 8.03K ohms
- Measured L: 2.223H
- Calculated C: 195pF (205 - 10)
- Gauss: 950G

Bridge unloaded: V:-0.9dBV f: 7.72kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-6.1dBV f: 3.68kHz (red)
Neck unloaded: V:-12.6dBV f: 7.46kHz (green)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-11.5dBV f: 3.21kHz (gray)



The bridge is a little weak and the neck is rather dark, with a loaded peak of only 3.2kHz, and most noteworthy of all is the clear lack of any Q factor on the neck pickup due to that brass cover. That is clearly seen in the bode plot (gray line). But they do have nice cosmetic aging.




Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound for Tele Set

Bridge
- DC Resistance: 17.80K ohms
- Measured L: 9.966H
- Calculated C: 129pF (139 - 10)

Bridge tapped
- DC Resistance: 9.22K ohms
- Measured L: 2.907H
- Calculated C: 448pF (458 - 10)

- Gauss: 770G

Neck
- DC Resistance: 12.23K ohms
- Measured L: 4.475H
- Calculated C: 227pF (237 - 10)
- Gauss: G

Neck tapped
- DC Resistance: 6.91K ohms
- Measured L: 1.525H
- Calculated C: 543pF (553 - 10)

- Gauss: 950G


Bridge full unloaded: V: 6.7dBV f: 4.27kHz (black)
Bridge full loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-4.6dBV f: 1.90kHz (red)
Bridge tapped unloaded: V: 2.8dBV f: 4.36kHz (green)
Bridge tapped loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-5.7dBV f: 3.03kHz (gray)



Neck full unloaded: V:-7.7dBV f: 4.89kHz (black)
Neck full loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-8.4dBV f: 2.38kHz (red)
Neck tapped unloaded: V:-12.5dBV f: 5.48kHz (green)
Neck tapped loaded (200k & 470pF): V:-12.9dBV f: 3.55kHz (gray)



This is an outrageously hot set, with a loaded bridge peak of 1.9kHz and a neck at 2.38kHz, a neck which also exhibits a non existent Q factor due to the brass covers. 

Since this set can be tapped, I did two bode plots, one per pickup, with the tapped and full plots both on a single graph.

An interesting thing about these tapped pickups is that there is an absurdly high parasitic capacitance in tapped mode, since the unused portion of coil is still in circuit, though not passing current directly. The unused portion of coil act as a massive plate, adding 200 to 300pF capacitance, which is equivalent to a 10 foot guitar cable. You can see this manifest in the bode plots, where the loaded and tapped resonant peaks are very close together, even though the inductances differ by 7 Henries and 3 Henries respectively. The "loaded" peaks show a greater difference, since the added capacitance combines with the coil's capacitance, while the inductance remains unchanged. 

It also appears that the larger 1/4" pole pieces of the bridge pickup causes slightly higher eddy current losses compared to typical pole pieces. 

Seymour Duncan says these quarter inch pole pieces are AlNiCo 5, but strangely enough the Gauss readings come out to ~770G, which is more similar to AlNiCo 2, and with the larger size of the magnet, I would have expected an even stronger flux density. I've found this to be the case with my Strat Quarter Pounds as well.



Setup details:

Bode plots are made with a Velleman PCSGU250 and the supplied probes in 10x mode, with the function generator feeding a driver coil of 0.48mH, placed on top of the pickup and driven with 2Vpp. The pickup is connected to an integrator circuit (V4), designed by Ken Willmott kenwillmott.com/blog/, and fed back into the Velleman PCSGU250. I measured the integrator's capacitance to be 10pF, so that amount is subtracted from the capacitance calculation.

The inductance and Q measurements are made with an Extech 380193 in "SER" series mode, and the mean value between the 1kHz and 120Hz modes is recorded. The capacitance value is derived from the inductance and measured resonant peak.

Magnets are tested with a Spin Doctor ER gravitastech.weebly.com/spin-doctor-er.html

[antigua]

Here are the results of measuring a NoCaster bridge pickup in these three bridge mounts. From left to right they are

- generic no name vintage style bridge made of thick steel
- Fender genuine parts vintage style bridge
- Fender genuine parts modern bridge




Here are the results with no load. Much to my surprise, both Fender bridges cause the same amount of Q loss, despite the fact that the newer bridge's metal is roughly twice as thick as the vintage style bridge. I'm guessing the side walls on the vintage style bridge might close the gap, because the modern bridge has no tray edges.

The Lowest peak is the generic bridge, which has the worst qualities of both, it's both thick and has side walls, and so it shows the highest losses.

Both Fender cause a 2dB drop, the generic causes a 3dB drop.






Here is the same test with a dummy load. The difference between the generic bridge and Fender Q losses become smaller, and they cause a drop in Q between 1.2 and 1.5dBV.





Therefore, knock down 1dB from the loaded plots and 2dB from the unloaded resonant peaks of the:


Fender Original Vintage bridge
Fender Pure Vintage 58 bridge
FenderPure Vintage 64 bridge
DiMarzio Twang King bridge
Seymour Duncan antiquity bridge

[antigua]

Here are measurements from some stock Fender Mexico and Japan pickups, two AlNiCo sets and one ceramic:



Fender Mexico Telecaster AlNiCo Bridge
Resistance: 6.25k ohms
Inductance: 2.470H
Calculated C: 158pF (168-10)
Gauss: 1050G

Unloaded:              dV: 10.9dB f: 7.81kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 4.6dB f: 3.94kHz (red)

Fender Mexico Telecaster AlNiCo Neck
Resistance: 7.20k ohms
Inductance: 1.941H
Calculated C: 241pF (251-10)
Gauss: 570G through cover

Unloaded:              dV:-0.6dB f: 7.21kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.7dB f: 3.40kHz (gray)





At 2.47H, the MIJ bridge has a lower inductance (output) than any of the domestic made pickups in the OP. The next closes is the Fender Pure Vintage '64 bridge with an inductance of 2.7H. Ironically, the bridge pickup is actually brighter than the neck, due to the much higher capacitance of the neck pickup.

The neck inductance, at 1.941H, is rather low, and almost identical output-wise to the Bill Lawrence Keystone, though because it has well over twice the capacitance of the Keystone, it's much darker, with a loaded peak of 3.4kHz to the Keystone's 4.6kHz.

While Fender USA uses nickel silver covers, it can be seen based on the eddy current damping that the MIM Tele neck pickup has a brass cover. 





Fender Japan Telecaster AlNiCo Bridge
Resistance: 6.05k ohms
Inductance: 2.475H
Calculated C: 170pF (180-10)
Gauss: 1300G

Unloaded:              dV: 11.5dB f: 7.54kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 5.7dB f: 3.85kHz (red)

Fender Japan Telecaster AlNiCo Neck
Resistance: 6.71k ohms
Inductance: 1.943H
Calculated C: 172pF (182-10)
Gauss: 1000G direct, 400 through cover

Unloaded:              dV:-2.0dB f: 8.46kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 0.6dB f: 3.64kHz (gray)






The MIJ bridge inductance is almost identical to the tested MIM, both are low output compared to most Fender USA and aftermarket Tele neck pickups. This bridge pickup is also brighter than the neck pickup, though to not as large of an extent as the MIM Tele set.

The neck pickup is also very low output, again being the most comparable to the Bill Lawrence Keystones, though again, a 75% increased capacitance gives it a loaded peak of 3.64kHz, compared to the Keystone's 4.6kHz.

This neck pickup also has a brass cover. 






Fender Japan Telecaster Ceramic Bridge
Resistance: 5.24k ohms
Inductance: 3.603H
Calculated C: 156pF (166-10)
Gauss: 420G
Unloaded:              dV: 7.4dB f: 6.51kHz (black)
Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 3.1dB f: 3.17kHz (red)

Fender Japan Telecaster Ceramic Neck
Resistance: 6.65k ohms
Inductance: 2.588H
Calculated C: 127pF (137-10) (without cover)
Gauss: 370G direct, 230G through cover

Unloaded:                             dV:-8.7dB f: 8.46kHz (green)
Loaded (200k & 470pF):                dV:-4.6dB f: 3.81kHz (gray)
Cover removed, Unloaded:              dV: 6.9dB f: 8.46kHz (pink)
Cover removed, Loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 3.0dB f: 3.81kHz (black)




The inductance are higher with this set, despite the low DC resistance, due to the higher permeability of the steel cores. The flux density is also quite a bit lower, so they're not necessarily louder. 

The steel pole pieces of the ceramic Tele pickups clearly cause a lower Q factor due to greater eddy current losses, and all three sets have brass neck pickups covers which also cause high eddy current losses in the neck position.

While brass is vintage correct, it causes much more resonance damping than the nickel silver covers used in American Fender and DiMarzio pickups. It's effectively similar to having the tone control turned down about "6".

The MIJ ceramic neck's eddy losses are shocking. In fact, there is no resonance at all with the MIJ ceramic neck pickup with the cover in place, due to the combined eddy currents of the cover and the steel pole pieces. I had to remove the cover just to determine what the resonant peaks of the coils is. Not only is there no resonance, but the soft roll off begins at 700Hz. This is effectively similar to having the tone control turned down about .




In conclusion, I think all three of these sets are worth replacing with something else. It doesn't appear that much effort is made to make the bridge and pickup compliment each other. The AlNiCo bridge pickups are rather weak, and much more uniform impedance plots can be seen with nearly all the Fender USA and aftermarket pickups that were tested in the OP.

[pablogilberto]

Hello antigua!

I'd like to know your thoughts.

Based on this measured values, we can see that Telecaster pickups generally have higher inductance and capacitance compared to strat pickups.
This mean that Tele pickups will also have lower resonant frequency than Strat pickups.

I'm just expecting that Tele pickups will have higher resonant frequency because they sound more Trebly compared to strats.
Am I missing something here?

What do you think is the differentiating factor why Tele pickups sound differently from Strats?

Thanks!

[antigua]

Feb 20, 2020 8:35:10 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Hello antigua!

I'd like to know your thoughts.

Based on this measured values, we can see that Telecaster pickups generally have higher inductance and capacitance compared to strat pickups.
This mean that Tele pickups will also have lower resonant frequency than Strat pickups.

I'm just expecting that Tele pickups will have higher resonant frequency because they sound more Trebly compared to strats.
Am I missing something here?

What do you think is the differentiating factor why Tele pickups sound differently from Strats?

Thanks!

A lower resonant peak can result in more perceived treble when the frequency is more audible. For example, speakers made for guitars roll off around 4 to 5kHz, so a resonant peak that is beyond that frequency won't be perceived, the pickup will essentially have a flat response. In audio engineering, treble is generally everything from 2kHz on upwards, and all but the hottest pickups have a loaded resonant peak above 2kHz, so talking about treble with regard to pickups is especially vague. I think that as the resonant peak increases, the response become more "clear", you hear more of the sounds of the pick brushing against the string. A pickup with a very high resonant peak (so as to seem "flat") almost sounds like an acoustic guitar. Another way of looking at the resonant peak is to see it as emphasis on particular frequency, rather than just being more or less treble. 

[pablogilberto]

Sept 25, 2016 17:52:03 GMT -5 antigua said:

This pickup has "52" written on the bottom of the neck bobbin, leading me to wonder if the Original Vintage and the Pure Vintage '52 are one and the same. Both use AlNiCo 3 and have similar DC resistance specs as well.

I noticed that the neck pickup polepiece is not installed flush in the bottom flatwork. 
Any idea why?

[pablogilberto]

Sept 25, 2016 17:52:03 GMT -5 antigua said:

An interesting thing about these tapped pickups is that there is an absurdly high parasitic capacitance in tapped mode, since the unused portion of coil is still in circuit, though not passing current directly. The unused portion of coil act as a massive plate, adding 200 to 300pF capacitance, which is equivalent to a 10 foot guitar cable. You can see this manifest in the bode plots, where the loaded and tapped resonant peaks are very close together, even though the inductances differ by 7 Henries and 3 Henries respectively. The "loaded" peaks show a greater difference, since the added capacitance combines with the coil's capacitance, while the inductance remains unchanged. 

Regardin the coil tapping...
Do you think that it will be better if the unused portion of the coil is totally removed from the circuit?
I'm thinking of using 4 wires for a coil tap.
1 for start
1 for first finish
1 for next start
1 for finish

During normal operation, the first finish and next start are connected.
During tapping, the next start and finish will be totally connected.

I'm thinking that we will get 2 pickup voicing using this method.

What do you think?

[aquin43]

Jun 17, 2021 8:37:45 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Sept 25, 2016 17:52:03 GMT -5 antigua said:

An interesting thing about these tapped pickups is that there is an absurdly high parasitic capacitance in tapped mode, since the unused portion of coil is still in circuit, though not passing current directly. The unused portion of coil act as a massive plate, adding 200 to 300pF capacitance, which is equivalent to a 10 foot guitar cable. You can see this manifest in the bode plots, where the loaded and tapped resonant peaks are very close together, even though the inductances differ by 7 Henries and 3 Henries respectively. The "loaded" peaks show a greater difference, since the added capacitance combines with the coil's capacitance, while the inductance remains unchanged. 

Regardin the coil tapping...
Do you think that it will be better if the unused portion of the coil is totally removed from the circuit?
I'm thinking of using 4 wires for a coil tap.
1 for start
1 for first finish
1 for next start
1 for finish

During normal operation, the first finish and next start are connected.
During tapping, the next start and finish will be totally connected.

I'm thinking that we will get 2 pickup voicing using this method.

What do you think?

There is no very large capacitance. What you have with the tapped coil can be simplified to this (but with added losses):

The two coil windings are naturally tightly coupled so the full coil is active all the time. Splitting the coil as you suggest instead of tapping it may well be a better approach. Easily simulated, rather like the split humbucker in another thread but with much tighter coupling between the coils.

[antigua]

Jun 17, 2021 8:37:45 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Sept 25, 2016 17:52:03 GMT -5 antigua said:

An interesting thing about these tapped pickups is that there is an absurdly high parasitic capacitance in tapped mode, since the unused portion of coil is still in circuit, though not passing current directly. The unused portion of coil act as a massive plate, adding 200 to 300pF capacitance, which is equivalent to a 10 foot guitar cable. You can see this manifest in the bode plots, where the loaded and tapped resonant peaks are very close together, even though the inductances differ by 7 Henries and 3 Henries respectively. The "loaded" peaks show a greater difference, since the added capacitance combines with the coil's capacitance, while the inductance remains unchanged. 

Regardin the coil tapping...
Do you think that it will be better if the unused portion of the coil is totally removed from the circuit?
I'm thinking of using 4 wires for a coil tap.
1 for start
1 for first finish
1 for next start
1 for finish

During normal operation, the first finish and next start are connected.
During tapping, the next start and finish will be totally connected.

I'm thinking that we will get 2 pickup voicing using this method.

What do you think?

Testing shows that unless you remove the unused coil, it loads the primary significantly. The degree of capacitive and inductive coupling is extremely high, and the signal is alternating current, so it interacts with the unused portion of coil quite a lot, even if the coil isnt connected at either end. Full disconnection is the best, but still far from not being there at all. 


I think the best way to approach this is with a high Q inductor, like the Bill Lawrence Q Filter. When put in parallel with a pickup, it will decrease the overall inductance and increase the resonant peak of the pickups without diminishing the Q factor. In fact it yields a very high Q factor, so you can put a resistor in parallel with it to trim the Q factor to taste.  

[antigua]

Jun 17, 2021 8:30:48 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Sept 25, 2016 17:52:03 GMT -5 antigua said:

This pickup has "52" written on the bottom of the neck bobbin, leading me to wonder if the Original Vintage and the Pure Vintage '52 are one and the same. Both use AlNiCo 3 and have similar DC resistance specs as well.

I noticed that the neck pickup polepiece is not installed flush in the bottom flatwork. 
Any idea why?

Probably a manufacturing mistake. 

[pablogilberto]

Hi antigua

Regarding the baseplate in Tele Bridge pickups, I understand that most use a copper plated steel.

I tried measuring the magnetic strength of a Tele Bridge pickup at the top polepiece with and without the baseplate.

Based on the readings, the Steel baseplate actually lowers/weakens the magnet strength at the top.

I think this will make the pickup output level weaker, correct?


I'm wondering why not use a Nickel Silver or Brass (non-magnetic) baseplates like in a P-90 or Humbucker?
I tried measuring a P-90 with and without a Nickel Silver baseplate and I can confirm that it slightly increase the magnetic strength at the top.


Let me know your thoughts if I miss something or what.


Thank you

[antigua]

Feb 1, 2024 7:16:09 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Hi antigua

Regarding the baseplate in Tele Bridge pickups, I understand that most use a copper plated steel.

I tried measuring the magnetic strength of a Tele Bridge pickup at the top polepiece with and without the baseplate.

Based on the readings, the Steel baseplate actually lowers/weakens the magnet strength at the top.

I think this will make the pickup output level weaker, correct?


I'm wondering why not use a Nickel Silver or Brass (non-magnetic) baseplates like in a P-90 or Humbucker?
I tried measuring a P-90 with and without a Nickel Silver baseplate and I can confirm that it slightly increase the magnetic strength at the top.


Let me know your thoughts if I miss something or what.


Thank you

I'm surprised the base plate makes the magnetic field weaker, but I probably realized that when I was testing a few years ago, but I had since forgotten about it. The base plate increases the inductance, some associate the lower resonant peak with power, because hotter wound pickups have a both more power and a lower resonant peak, but there's no merit to the idea that a baseplate adds power. 

A magnetic base plate might have acted as a magnetic keeper, to stabilize the AlNiCo pole pieces and help prevent them from losing magnetization. It was probably considered good practice prior to AlNiCo 5 being available, but AlNiCo 5 is a stable grade of AlNiCo and doesn't require a keeper in a guitar pickup. PAF humbuckers also have what seems to be a keeper bar, which the screws feed through. Some Chinese pickup makers also figured out that they're not needed and many cheap PAF style humbuckers don't have them either. 

I think in the case of a Tele or Strat, cavity shielding makes a lot more sense than any shielding attached to the pickup itself.