HSH wiring with S-1

[rocrates]

Alright, I have an HSH Stratocaster that began life as an SSS American Deluxe. I want to rewire the HSH setup in a fashion similar to Dirk Wacker's "Strat-PRS Crossover Wiring", but with two changes. I want to retain the standard strat control layout with 2 tones and 1 volume. And I'd like the S1 switch to activate what I'll call 'single coil mode' when it's pressed in (effectively reversing the function from DW's schematic). I love the versatility of this setup, but especially love that it has a resistor in place that changes the whole setup to 250k for the single coil mode.

Since the guitar started out life with the S-1 switching installed, I do know that it will fit in the cavity. And since the body is off being refinished, there's no time like the present to fiddle with the electronics.

Anyway, below is a link to the schematic I refer to above. I'd really appreciate any guidance here as, despite playing for ~15 years, I've never learned how to design wiring schematics.


Strat-PRS Crossover

[reTrEaD]

Hello rocrates and to Guitarnuts2

Your first change will be possible but there will be some limitations on how you can manage it. The second one will be dead easy.

two changes. I want to retain the standard strat control layout with 2 tones and 1 volume.

Since there are no leftover poles on the superswitch, you won't be able to select which tone control is used by virtue of the position of the selector. However, you could easily assign each to specific pickup. But that leaves one of the pickups out in the cold (no tone control) if it's selected all by itself. And it also means whenever the two pickups which do have a tone control assigned, are selected together, there will be two controls in play.

We should continue discussing what you want the tone controls to do.

And I'd like the S1 switch to activate what I'll call 'single coil mode' when it's pressed in (effectively reversing the function from DW's schematic).

From your link, here's a drawing of the S1 with the local jumpers (but there are other connections to it which are not shown here). We'll use that to discuss the necessary changes. 


The S1 is a four-pole double throw switch (4PDT)
Each section has one pole and two throws
One throw is connected to the pole when the button is up
The other throw is connected to the pole when the button is down
pads 2, 5, 8, and 11 are poles
You won't change any of the connections to any of the poles.

Swap the connections to pads 1 and 3
Swap the connections to pads 4 and 6
Swap the connections to pads 7 and 9
Swap the connections to pads 10 and 12

Up is now down and vice-versa.  Easy-peasy, right?

[newey]

You won't change any of the connections to any of the poles.

Swap the connections to pads 1 and 2

RT-

Don't you mean 1 and 3?

[reTrEaD]

Yes. Yes I do. Fixed now. Thanks for the proofread.

[rocrates]

Oh man, awesome! I figured switching function would be pretty straightforward on the switch.


I'm not totally sure which one of the 3 to have no tone knob equipped. I mean, the bridge would definitely get one. But I'm not sure between the others. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[reTrEaD]

Jun 4, 2018 14:25:36 GMT -5 rocrates said:

Oh man, awesome! I figured switching function would be pretty straightforward on the switch.


I'm not totally sure which one of the 3 to have no tone knob equipped. I mean, the bridge would definitely get one. But I'm not sure between the others. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I agree the Bridge pickup (particularly in single-coil mode) would benefit most from a tone control. The absence of one on my SSS strat makes the Bridge-only position completely useless. Way too brittle.

Not sure what to assign the other treble-cut tone control to. Neck, Middle, flip a coin? idk. Maybe someone else will have a strong recommendation.

Another thought I had ... maybe use both tone controls in all positions. But use one to cut treble, the other to cut bass. Here's a thread about that, by JohnH : Bass cut and G&L ‘PTB’ wiring. Does that seem like something that might interest you?

[rocrates]

The Bass and Treble cuts look pretty cool, but maybe not for me, at least not yet.

I almost always run with the neck tone wide open, so I'm leaning towards doing the tone knobs on bridge and middle. Or maybe sticking to just the master tone. If I did that, then I'd be looking at replacing the pickguard or doing something with the extra hole in it.

[rocrates]

Ok slept on it - I think for what I do, two tones, one for the bridge and one for the middle, will be the way to go. So, how on earth do I integrate this with the wiring plan?

[newey]

So, how on earth do I integrate this with the wiring plan?

A typical Strat uses the second pole of the 5-way switch to control the tone control switching. As RT pointed out above, you can't do so since all the poles of the superswitch are being used to perform pickup switching.

So, what you do is to wire the two tones controls "across" their respective pickups before the wiring to the switch.

I can't get a diagram up at the moment, but we'll get something up for you soon.

[rocrates]

Jun 4, 2018 6:57:31 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Up is now down and vice-versa.  Easy-peasy, right?

Oh lord, I'm working on doing a schematic by hand and just now realized that I should be swapping ALL of the throw connections, not just the local jumpers. D'oh.

I'm gonna start over and work until I get stuck. Would you mind taking a look and helping with the tone knobs? I'm not sure how to tie each knob to their respective pickups.

[reTrEaD]

Hey rocrates
If you're using the diagram from your link, we'll use their stock version to explain the connection to separate tone controls.



Your tone controls could be configured just as the one is shown in the diagram but of course the red wire wouldn't connect to the volume control.  Note: Use a separate cap for each tone control.  Don't try to use a single cap shared by two tone controls like a standard strat.  That would cause a problem here.

In the case of the Bridge tone, that wire would connect to lugs 2 and 3 1 and 2 of the superswitch along with the black wire from the bridge pickup.

In the case of the Middle tone, that wire could connect to the same place as the yellow wire from the middle pickup. That's shown as pad 10 on this drawing but in your circuit it would be pad 12 because of the up/down swap, right?

[rocrates]

Hi reTrEaD The superswitch has my head spinning. Am I missing something? Doesn't the black from the bridge connect to lug #1 of the super switch while red connects to the common on the opposite side? But then the middle pickup goes directly to the volume/S1 switch?

I'm feeling in over my head at the moment. I believe the S1 pads are swapped as you described, the neck is connected without changes (except for the pads), but after that I'm lost. Here's what I've got so far:

link to diagram ...i tried embedding but got it wrong

[rocrates]

Am I correct that all the connections to the super switch will remain the same, the pads of the S1 are swapped. The mid tone connects to pad 12 of the S1, and the bridge tone connects to lug 1 of the superswitch along with the black that's currently connecting there?

[reTrEaD]

Jun 9, 2018 19:37:05 GMT -5 rocrates said:

Hi reTrEaD The superswitch has my head spinning. Am I missing something? Doesn't the black from the bridge connect to lug #1 of the super switch while red connects to the common on the opposite side? But then the middle pickup goes directly to the volume/S1 switch?

I'm feeling in over my head at the moment. I believe the S1 pads are swapped as you described, the neck is connected without changes (except for the pads), but after that I'm lost. Here's what I've got so far:

link to diagram ...i tried embedding but got it wrong

Yes, you're correct.  I gave the wrong numbers for the Bridge Black connection to the superswitch.  I edited that now, to correct it.

---

Let's try to display your image using the BBCode from Flickr as well as the one you linked from Premier Guitar.
This will be useful if someone wants to proofread.


Your latest:
HSH S1 Wiring Draft by rocrates85, on Flickr

From PG:

Jun 9, 2018 20:04:04 GMT -5 rocrates said:

Am I correct that all the connections to the super switch will remain the same, the pads of the S1 are swapped. The mid tone connects to pad 12 of the S1, and the bridge tone connects to lug 1 of the superswitch along with the black that's currently connecting there?

Yes to all of that. (pads 2, 5, 8, and 11 on the S1 remain the same of course)

[rocrates]

Awesome!  Well then I *think* I've got it. I'm going to have another cup of coffee and try to proofread this bad boy. If anyone wants to proofread it as well, I sure would appreciate a second set of eyes. I'm really excited about this coming together! Also, I gotta say, this forum is great. SO much knowledge and willingness to help. Y'all are amazing

Ok, here's what I've got:


Draft 2 by rocrates, on Flickr

And it should function like this:

HSH crossover function by rocrates, on Flickr

[reTrEaD]

Jun 10, 2018 9:35:09 GMT -5 rocrates said:

If anyone wants to proofread it as well, I sure would appreciate a second set of eyes.

Good work of sorting out the process of displaying images and the addition of the 'results' map is a nice touch. I'm a little short on time and attention span lately, Roc. I do hope others might step in and perform our usual vetting process.

[newey]

I do hope others might step in and perform our usual vetting process

Hint taken, although it may be a day or so before I can get a look.

[rocrates]

Cool, I appreciate your willingness to take a look at it. It looked ok to me, but I'm a total neophyte here.

[musogreg]

I've just read through this thread. Looks good to me. As a suggestion from left field... would consider a master bass cut and treble cut? The bass cut is especially effective in the series positions, and even more so if you overdrive your amp or use OD/Distortion pedals. Adding I bass cut (either as a pot or as a 1 or 2 or 3 position switch) has saved many a humbucker that I was ready to replace because it too muddy!

[rocrates]

Jun 15, 2018 6:33:07 GMT -5 musogreg said:

I've just read through this thread. Looks good to me. As a suggestion from left field... would consider a master bass cut and treble cut? The bass cut is especially effective in the series positions, and even more so if you overdrive your amp or use OD/Distortion pedals. Adding I bass cut (either as a pot or as a 1 or 2 or 3 position switch) has saved many a humbucker that I was ready to replace because it too muddy!

Thank you for taking a look! Someone else also suggested master treble & bass cuts, which I did think about, but I think I'm going to stick with the tone controls for this. I'm not changing the pickups, and I'm happy with their EQ. They are all Dimarzio (Steve's Special, Evo, Breed) and intended for high gain/drive use, so they don't get very muddy or shrill.

[rocrates]

Jun 11, 2018 11:54:32 GMT -5 newey said:

I do hope others might step in and perform our usual vetting process

Hint taken, although it may be a day or so before I can get a look.

Hey any chance you might be able to take a look at this? I really appreciate any help that I can get!

[reTrEaD]

Jun 22, 2018 18:09:22 GMT -5 rocrates said:

Hey any chance you might be able to take a look at this? I really appreciate any help that I can get!

Apparently Newey is rather busy and I've also been busy with other matters as well. I currently lack the focus to be able to sort through a moderately complex wiring diagram.

But you're a member in good standing and this deserves some attention. At the very least, I'll bump this on a daily basis until one of us has the time to give it a thorough vetting.

[rocrates]

Cool, I appreciate it! I got the body this will all go into back from being refinished and am excited. I shielded the cavity today and reassembled up to doing electronics.

[newey]

Yes, sorry Rocrates, I've been delinquent. Give me a day or so.

[rocrates]

Using no-load pots for the tone controls would be fine with this right? If I can, I'm thinking that'd be nice to do since the neck pup will be running wide open. 

[newey]

OK, I've had a chance to look at this. Rocrates, I believe you have accurately drawn what RT has suggested, insofar as the tone control wiring and the swapping of up/down on the S-1 are concerned.

As to whether the original diagram you are starting from does what it is claimed to do, I don't have an opinion, I haven't yet traced it all out. If it worked as originally drawn, then you have successfully redrawn it with your changes.

Specifically, on the original diagram, I note that the neck pickup is always split at position 4 of the superswitch (per the truth table). But I'm not seeing how that split gets accomplished at that position, since the neck pickup's "series junction" (green/black pair) connects to the other series junction from the bridge pickup at that position. So I'm not seeing how the neck HB gets split at position 4. Maybe I'm just dense and missing something.

[rocrates]

Awesome, thank you for looking it over. Y'all are great! From what I can tell, a fair number of folks have used the original schematic successfully, so I kind of assume that it functions as advertised. This may of course be a little naive

[rocrates]

Well I have an update! It's all wired up, restrung, etc, and I have my #1 guitar back after almost 5 months. The first thing I noticed is that the tone is brighter across the board (it had 250k pots previously, now has 500k with no load tone pots), which I like.

I got ahead of myself and didn't test any functionality before restringing, which turned out to be a mistake; I discovered that volume knob doesn't affect the volume, and none of the coil splits work in any switch position. Naturally I'm on my last set of strings at the moment, otherwise I'd open it back up right now. But like I said, I'm really excited to have this guitar in playing condition again, and so once the strings wear out I'll get into it.

The volume trouble I diagnosed almost immediately looking at my diagram...I didn't connect the 3rd lug to ground. D'oh, I guess I'm playing at 10 all the time for now. I added a treble bleed at the last second, which seems to be having an odd effect as a result, kind of blending out the bass frequencies as the knob is turned.

The coil splits I'm not sure about. All five positions function and yield a full sound, but in positions where only 1/2 of a humbucker is supposed to be live, both coils are. Here are my guesses as to the culprit(s):
1 - Unintended grounding of the leads from the pickups. For it to affect both HBs, this would have to happen to both of them, which seems unlikely. Possible though?
2 - S1 switch fried while wiring it up? Because the middle single coil does deactivate when the S1 is up, and activates when it is down (exactly as intended), I think this is probably pretty remote.
3 - Error(s) in the schematic. Totally possible, or even likely, because I'm learning as I go with this, and already know I made a mistake elsewhere. We made changes to the connections on the S1, but left the superswitch alone. Maybe this was a mistake.
4 - Mistake actually wiring everything up. I took everything to a local shop and let them have at it. I didn't feel confident enough in my soldering skills to give it a go. This is the first time I've used them, but they are a full service luthier and specialize in custom instruments, so I feel pretty confident that it was all hooked up as directed.

Incidentally, when the S1 is down, the guitar switch functions exactly like it did before rewiring. So for now I'm going troubleshoot what I can on the diagram, practice my soldering on some old parts, and enjoy the guitar. If you have any troubleshooting ideas let me know!