How would you wire up this HSH combination?

[bagginz]

Greetings!

I've just bought a new guitar.  A Harley Benton Fusion Pro 's a surprisingly lively and playable guitar btw!)

After a lot of playing using the different pickup combinations, I now wish to tweak the pickup configuration more to my liking. 

I am familiar with basic guitar wiring, but this new project has me stumped. I just don't have the knowledge to figure it out. Or even know if it's possible!

Hopefully some of you more knowledgable and experienced wiring guys will be able to give me some pointers...


The guitar is HSH with a 5 way and a coil split switch. The stock wiring is thus:


Coil split OFF
1.Bridge HB
2.Bridge HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
3.Middle s/c
4.Neck HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
5.Neck HB

Coil split ON
1 .Bridge Split (outside coil)
2. Bridge Split + Middle s/c (hum cancelled)
3. Middle s/c
4. Neck Split + Middle s/c (hum cancelled)
5. Neck Split (outside coil)

As is often the case, the middle pickup sounds excellent in combination but isn't very useful by itself ( narrow Q) and it sounds tonally unbalanced when switching from the other sounds.

Oddly enough, because the guitar is generally very bright (SS frets and light, resonant neck and body woods) the middle p/u sounds particularly good when combined with the humbuckers. The slight added midrange from the HB is actually useful because the result still contains the upper harmonic chimes on neck/middle and actually has more quack than my Strat on the bridge/middle.  The splits + middle sound thin by comparison.  Plus there's less volume drop switching between pos. 2+4 and the main HB sounds - (at the expense of some hum)

So, what I want to do is consolidate the best sounds into the 5 way and use the coil switch to access 2 other useful combinations.    7 sounds total

This is what I'd like to accomplish: (split switch OFF)

1.Bridge HB
2.Bridge HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
3.Bridge HB + Neck HB
4.Neck HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
4.Neck HB

Then I'd like to be able to switch the coil split ON to access:

Neck single coil (outside coil)
Split bridge HB + split neck HB (outside coils)

___________________


I've figured out that I'll need some kind of 5 way super switch.

I have checked all possible versions of the Schaller Megaswitch and unfortunately there is no combination that allows the HB + S/C in position 2 and 4 which also allows the 2 outside pickups when in the middle position (3)

So presumably I'll need an Oak Grigsby Super Switch?https://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Components_and_Parts/Switches/Oak_Grigsby_Super_Switch.html

First of all, Is this wiring setup actually possible??

Second, (the $64,000 question) how would I wire it up?        

Thanks for your time! 

[thetragichero]

hey to the nutz house!

any idea of what kind of five way switch you have in there already? gutshot(s) could be helpful
depending on your current switch and how exactly you'd like the finish product to be, you *may* not even need a super switch

am i correct in assuming that you only want the coil split switch to operate in positions 3 and 5 (and maybe 4) but not positions 1 and 2?

i think super/mega switch wiring for that would be super doable (instead of sending bridge series link to ground when coil split switch is on you'd send it to one of the two new poles and only have that go to ground in position 3)
currently a passenger in a car so i can't draw it up in paint

[bagginz]

Jul 28, 2018 15:59:42 GMT -5 thetragichero said:

hey to the nutz house!

 
Thanks

And thank you for your response!

>any idea of what kind of five way switch you have in there already? <

Yes. It’s a pretty standard non-Fender type 5 way. (See photo)

>depending on your current switch and how exactly you'd like the finish product to be, you *may* not even need a super switch<

Okay!   Interesting…

>am i correct in assuming that you only want the coil split switch to operate in positions 3 and 5 (and maybe 4) but not positions 1 and 2?<

Yes correct!   Ideally the split should only affect positions 3 & 5.

>i think super/mega switch wiring for that would be super doable <

Cool!

I have no problem buying extra components if they are needed.

(instead of sending bridge series link to ground when coil split switch is on you'd send it to one of the two new poles and only have that go to ground in position 3)

I kinda follow conceptually.…... ish    

> draw it up in paint<

Some kind of diagram would be most useful!

Thanks for your time so far, I appreciate it!

[thetragichero]

got the start of a diagram up on the pc in paint. I'll try to get it done and up tonight. i don't know the specific humbucker wire color codes but since you're not concerned about hum canceling, we can just ground the series connection for the coil splits and if it happens to be the inner coil, you can just rotate the pickup 180 degrees close enough for punk rock as my dad used to say

[newey]

Tragic-

Recall that bagginz wanted:

This is what I'd like to accomplish: (split switch OFF)

1.Bridge HB
2.Bridge HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
3.Bridge HB + Neck HB
4.Neck HB + Middle s/c (no hum cancel)
4.Neck HB

The minute you want N + B in the center position, you're looking at a superswitch. Can't be done on a regular 5-way, at least not without screwing up all the other positions listed.

[thetragichero]

yeah i thought I'd get tricky but no dice. I've downloaded the layout of the stew Mac super switch

[thetragichero]

probably not the cleanest or most efficient, but i think that should work
coil cut switch down
1 bridge hb
2 bridge hb + middle
3 bridge hb + neck hb
4 neck hb + middle
5 neck hb

coil cut switch up
1 bridge hb
2 bridge hb + middle
3 bridge single + neck single
4 neck hb + middle
5 neck single

wait until somebody checks it before you bust out the iron

[thetragichero]

edit # 1: previous diagram had neck split in positions 3 4 and 5. this should do the trick:





coil cut switch down
1 bridge hb
2 bridge hb + middle
3 bridge hb + neck hb
4 neck hb + middle
5 neck hb

coil cut switch up
1 bridge hb
2 bridge hb + middle
3 bridge single + neck single
4 neck hb + middle
5 neck single

wait until somebody checks it before you bust out the iron

[newey]

Tragic-

Your diagram looks OK except I can't see the detail on the neck pickup wiring, the light green color gets lost in there.

[thetragichero]

5 4 and 3 on poles 2 and 4 are connected in light green. i should've done it in a program with layers like gimp so that i could make it more legible

[bagginz]

Jul 29, 2018 16:19:53 GMT -5 thetragichero said:

g i don't know the specific humbucker wire color codes but since you're not concerned about hum canceling

They're Roswell pickups. (moderate output PAF style humbuckers)  Does this help?

WRT the single coil; with the stock wiring in single coil mode, it hum cancels in positions  2 & 4.  Which suggests a RWRP single coil (?)  

[bagginz]

Jul 29, 2018 19:56:32 GMT -5 thetragichero said:

edit # 1: previous diagram had neck split in positions 3 4 and 5. this should do the trick:

tragic,

Great! Thank you for doing that!

Just to confirm, can I use this Schaller Megaswitch rather than the Oak Grigsby 4 pole/5 way? www.thomannmusic.com/eyb_megaswitch_version_m.htm

It looks a lot tidier...   

And if so, does  A(BCDEF)  (GHIJK)L  M(NOPQR)  (STUVW)X  correspond to: 0(12345)  (12345)0  0(12345)  (12345)0  on your diagram/the Oak Grigsby switch ?

Or would you recommend another switch type?



>wait until somebody checks it before you bust out the iron<

Shall I consider it checked now that newey has cast his baleful eye across it?



I'll need order the switch, so there's time yet.    I will report back once I've got stuck in and wired things up.

Thanks again for your help!

[thetragichero]

i used oak grigsby switch from the stew mac site because that's what you'd mentioned, but i can check that they may possibly connect the same. let's call that a tbd since it's getting late and i won't get a chance to look until at least tomorrow evening

[newey]

now that newey has cast his baleful eye across it?

Gawd, we're waxing poetic around this joint . . .

With Trag's explanation, it looks OK. We haven't discussed tone controls and how they may be wired (if there's two of them, that is)

There are several different flavors of Schaller MegaSwitches. There is only one version that is the equivalent of a superswitch. I think it's the "M" model, but double check before purchasing.

Apparently, the Roswell pickups require a technique called "sordering", with which I am unfamiliar . . .

But on a more serious note, their instructions are wrong. The text says to "sorder" the black and white wires together, while the diagram (correctly) makes clear that it's the red and white that go together. I'd worry about the pickups if they can't proofread their website any better than that.

[bagginz]

Jul 30, 2018 6:10:37 GMT -5 newey said:

"now that newey has cast his baleful eye across it?"      Gawd, we're waxing poetic around this joint . . .

Alright then, discerning eye.      Better?

>With Trag's explanation, it looks OK.<

Ok cool

>We haven't discussed tone controls and how they may be wired <

Good point 

There’s just a single master tone.  How would I wire than in?



>There are several different flavors of Schaller MegaSwitches. There is only one version that is the equivalent of a superswitch. I think it's the "M" model.<

Yes, correct, it’s the M version. I’ve ordered it, it’s winging its way…



>Apparently, the Roswell pickups require a technique called "sordering", with which I am unfamiliar<



Phonetic Chinese -> English translation via listening to U.S. Youtube videos?




>The text says to "sorder" the black and white wires together, while the diagram (correctly) makes clear that it's the red and white that go together. <

Good catch!      I can double confirm - the red and white wires are "sordered" together in the actual guitar.




>I'd worry about the pickups if they can't proofread their website any better than that.<

Indeed, their proofreading sucks, but their pickups sound surprisingly good.

My plan was to drop a Seymour Duncan JB I have hanging around into the bridge, but I changed my mind after playing the guitar for few days. I prefer the treble bite of the lower output PAF clone that’s in there.  And it combines particularly nicely with the middle ( without being split )

The neck humbucker sounds superb also (fat, round, warm, not boomy on the wound strings) It's a current favourite, and sounds great when split - still round and full but with extra clank...

Thank you for your help so far newey.  I appreciate it!   

[bagginz]

Others may find this useful as a reference:


I've figured out the terminal conversion between the (4 pole/5 way) Oak Grigsby switch and the (4 pole/5 way) Schaller M Megaswitch.

It is as follows:


 Schaller M Megaswitch: (ABCDE) F  (GHIJK) L  (MNOPQ) R  (STUVW) X       corresponds to:
 Oak Grigsby switch      :(54321) 0  (54321) 0   (54321) 0   (54321) 0

[newey]

Rather than calling all the poles "0" on the Superswitch, it's easier for discussions if you letter the poles A, B C, D, with "A" upper left, "B" lower left, "C" upper right and "D", lower right.

I've figured out the terminal conversion between the (4 pole/5 way) Oak Grigsby switch and the (4 pole/5 way) Schaller M Megaswitch.

I disremember if someone had already posted that, but so's we have the reference, please re-post that in the Reference section. I believe there is a Megaswitch thread therein, started by ChrisK, that you could add to.

There’s just a single master tone. How would I wire than in?

No issue if there's only a master tone control. If there were two, a la standard Strat architecture, then one of the poles of the Megaswitch would need to be used to switch tone controls in/out of the circuit.

But with only one, It gets wired exactly the same as any V & T control guitar.

1) Pickup switch output to V pot CW lug.

2) V pot wiper to output jack + ; V pot CCW lug grounded.

3) V pot CW lug to T pot wiper.

4) T pot CCW lug to capacitor, then from cap to ground.

Alright then, discerning eye. Better?

Baleful eye, discerning eye. . . A better adjective would be "sleepy"

[reTrEaD]

Jul 30, 2018 22:32:00 GMT -5 newey said:

Rather than calling all the poles "0" on the Superswitch, it's easier for discussions if you letter the poles A, B C, D, with "A" upper left, "B" lower left, "C" upper right and "D", lower right.

In a general sense, it makes more sense to do it the way bagginz has it, with all poles being indicated with a zero. Defining them should only be done when referencing a conversion from a specific diagram which was originally drawn for a superswitch which has the A, B, C, D labels on the diagram.


I use the same general notation for poles and throws on the superswitch to megaswitch conversion drawing that I was working on.

[bagginz]

newey,

>so's we have the reference, please re-post that in the Reference section. I believe there is a Megaswitch thread therein, started by ChrisK, that you could add to.<

Done!

Though I think retread’s diagram & photo is much clearer... 

But with only one, It gets wired exactly the same as any V & T control guitar.

1) Pickup switch output to V pot CW lug.
2) V pot wiper to output jack + ; V pot CCW lug grounded.
3) V pot CW lug to T pot wiper.
4) T pot CCW lug to capacitor, then from cap to ground.

Great, thanks!

[newey]

RT-

As bagginz suggested, please add your graphic to the thread he started in References. The popularity of these switches seems to be growing.