agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 9, 2019 11:24:39 GMT -5
I have a set of pickups, switches and pots from a mid sixties Italian -- probably a Galanti or Eko. There are four pickups, and they are all on a board with a circuit built in, two pickups above the circuit, two below it, so, PUs 1&@ above, 3&4 below. The switching is awesome, six positions -- all four pickups, no pickups,one, 1 by itself, 4 by itself, 1+4, or 2+3. link.shutterfly.com/ePOtUkVYlXAs the picks show, it looks like someone divided the leads from the pickups, wired the top two and bottom two so they could then pass through the circuit board, and then the individual pickup signals go out to the switch mechanism. Because I don't know what the original wiring looked like, and because I have heard that lots of people thought the circuit was not very good, and because I have read that the Galanti Grand Prix 4V was meant to be played with pups out of phase . . . I am considering rewiring all this, so that I can have 1+4 in or out of phase, and 2+3 in or out of phase, and put a cap/resistor pair for treble bleed at the tone pot. I want just single tone and volume, so I can use the pickguard that I had copied from the original. My question is -- what does this wiring look like -- should I run from the pickups to a phase switch to the pickup switch? With a simple phase switch, I could run PU 1 and PU 3 to the phase switch, so that the polarity of the signal is reversed when it hits the pickup selector switch . . . and from there is goes to tone, vol and out. If this works, I could, in theory, run both phase controlled pickups to the same, single phase switch, right? And that way I could even have all four pickups selected with the pairs in phase or out of phase. Two phase switches would give me more options . . . I am not an expert in this area, so I am looking for help and advice. I a building a reproduction of a Galanti Grand Prix around these controls . . . Any help much appreciated. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 13:55:36 GMT -5
What dose the State "M" do .. Found out .. means ALL would GUESS that the Board is a Filter of sorts, that all wires from the Pickups go there and 5 Come out to the Switching the Hot Wires and Ground, before Two Wires go to the Volume/Tone Pots. I cant change the Switching system, as its a kind of Latching system.. Could Replace with Rocker/Latch Switching but wouldnt look the same  you only have TWO holes for Tone/Volume, could use Push Pull switches that give you a 2P2T (take a phase switching for two pickups ONLY) or you could have Tone/Volume in Dual Pot and keep the other hole free for a 4P5T switch that can do the same and just give you two Pickups Phase Switching. |
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 9, 2019 16:45:06 GMT -5
I am willing to modify the pickguard to accommodate a phase switch or two. But my main question is -- if my switch only has a single output - that is ,when 1&$ OR 2&3 are selected, the switch puts them together and then sends the signal to the volume/tone controls, don't I need to wire the phase switch ahead of the selector switch? Or if I use a push pull pot, do I wire the pickup output to the switch on the pot, and then to the selector? That would be ideal!
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 9, 2019 16:51:39 GMT -5
In fact, I could wire two pickups, 1 & 3, to the push pull switch, and then have two output wires, one to the pickup 1 input on the selector, and one to the pickup 3 input on the selector, since 1 and 3 are never played together.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5
yep the Out of Phase needs to be done before going in to that MEGA SWITCHING system.
Sounds like you got it to me..
are you bypassing the "Board" looks some type of Filter system with Caps/Resisters
1) Pickups ---- Phase Switch -- Board -- Mega Switching -- Tone -- Volume
2) Pickups -------------------------- Board -- Mega Switching
3) Pickups ---- Phase Switch -- Board -- Mega Switching
4) Pickups -------------------------- Board -- Mega Switching
If i was wiring it electric wise, (but i like the look of these switch) I'd use 6xLatching switches.
4 for each of the Pickups, and 2 to Phase two of them, (would be tempted to add another to phase a 3rd pickup)
Then you could still use Push/Pull switches for a Bleed or to change the Cap value on the Tone 10,15,22,33,47nF etc
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 9, 2019 20:29:18 GMT -5
if I can't figure out what the board does or how to wire it, I'm bypassing it. It's a filter for sure, but the rap on these guitars was that they sounded thin. I would rather put a good treble bleed circuit in at the tone control.
Many thanks for your help.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 3:15:43 GMT -5
Well while the board is cut, do ohms test to find what is hooked to what.
I would guess from board layout myself, that is a Capacitor and Resister parallel.
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 10, 2019 3:39:44 GMT -5
That's what it looks like, what I can't figure out is all the splitting and rejoining of of the pickup wires that was done, and what is supposed to connect where on the board. If I can figure it out, I'll keep the board . . . just for the originality of it!
Out comes the multimeter.
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Post by newey on Jun 10, 2019 5:45:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I was going to suggest some testing may be in order before you dive in too deeply. First, check all the components to be sure that they work, particularly the pickups. No point to building a guitar around these 4 pickups if only three of them work . . . Also test the switch. You have more questions than answers at this point. Both you and Angelbunny are suggesting a single phase switch for two pickups- that will work assuming that the pickups are all connected in parallel, but we don't know that the original wiring may have been in series. Maybe because there was some phase switching in the original? Oh, and . . . Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2! |
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 10, 2019 7:45:12 GMT -5
I read somewhere that these guitars were meant to played out of phase, but I don't see anything that looks like a phase switch -- but it may be that all that interwiring of the pups before they get to the circuit board is just a way of putting them out of phase . . .
I'll be doing a lot of testing.
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 10, 2019 15:47:22 GMT -5
The six way switch works, there is a selector button for "0" -- no sound, But this selection actually creates a contact with a lead coming from the circuit board. This leads me to conclude that the circuit board has a muting function built in? There are six possible selections from the switch, and four leads coming from the circuit to the switch, only one lead coming out of the switch. The available selections are:
All
1 (switch creates a contact between the output lug and one input lug)
4 (switch creates a contact between the output lug and a different input lug)
1+4 (Switch creates contact between output lug and the 1 input and the 4 input lugs)
2+3 (switch creates contact between output lug and yet another input lug)
Mute (Switch creates contact between output lug and the fourth input lug)
The four leads coming out of the circuit and connecting to the input lugs in the switch, therefore, must be
1
4
2+3
Mute
There is a bunch of wire splicing from the pickups -- essentially wiring 1+2 together and wiring 3+4 together. It is NOT factory original. This leads me to conclude that someone tried to pair the pickups to make a sort of "humbucker by proxy" set up. All I really need to do to get back to original is figure out how to wire the inputs from the pickups. It should actually be pretty easy because there are matching colored wires on the switch input lugs and the circuit outputs . . .
link.shutterfly.com/wQTX8l1NpX
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 16:06:15 GMT -5
hmm strange, i think you need a New BIOS Battery .. says you uploaded them Jan 1970!
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 12, 2019 6:15:23 GMT -5
Multimeter very helpful today --
First, I think all the caps are dead.
Second, I think the circuit board has three circuits in it
two fairly straightforward cap/resistor in parallel filters, one for 1 & 2 and one for 3& 4 -- both with cap marked "1600 pf" cap and a resistor whose value is . . . yet to be determined.
One cap/resistor pair with a different value -- 2200m pf cap and a different resistor --
This latter cap/resistor pair leads to the "0" switch -- which, I believe, is a mute, but not a silencer, but just a more muffled tone . . .
So now I think I have to remove the circuit board from the metal plate (it's riveted) and replace the caps.
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Post by newey on Jun 12, 2019 9:21:01 GMT -5
You might consider posting a request for more info on this guitar's wiring at the VintAxe forum, one of the members there may have some more info for you. www.vintaxe.com/phpBB3/ |
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 12, 2019 9:27:25 GMT -5
Thanks!
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agabinet
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Post by agabinet on Jun 12, 2019 10:50:13 GMT -5
here are pics of the circuit board link.shutterfly.com/Wv25r0IKsXPretty clear that there are three cap/resistor circuits . . . one of which rolls off more than the other two |
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Post by sumgai on Jun 12, 2019 11:04:33 GMT -5
Art, Hi, and  to The NutzHouse!  Your capacitors appear to be dead because they don't pass current in DC mode! That's what your multimeter uses for taking resistance readings, a simple battery, which means DC. Capacitors are meant to pass AC, so if you want to test them, you'll need a meter that has a Cap testing function. Fortunately, non-expensive meters can be found in various outlets which have this capability, should you wish to go further along this path. (These use the battery to generate a low-level AC signal.) HTH sumgai |
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