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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 20, 2019 15:08:32 GMT -5
Hi! New guy here.
I have a quick question to start of. It's about wiring a humbucker "inside out", and how that works with another pickup.
Assuming normal Duncan colours:
North start = black
North finish = white
South finish = red
South start = green
Normally, black is hot, white & red is the series link and green is ground. I understand you can wire the humbucker "inside out", which if I'm correct means:
White = hot
Black & green = series link
Red = ground
First of all, is this correct? Second, my main question: Will wiring a humbucker "inside out", change it's phase relative to another pickup, or the hum-cancelling with another split humbucker?
Cheers!
Niklas
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 20, 2019 16:24:28 GMT -5
i don't see where it would change phase. as long as there's a separate wire to ground the baseplate you should be fine
i don't know the "why"b of wiring it that way, but yes it should work
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 20, 2019 18:52:07 GMT -5
Hello Niklas and  to Guitarnuts2 Hi! New guy here. I have a quick question to start of. It's about wiring a humbucker "inside out", and how that works with another pickup. Assuming normal Duncan colours: North start = black North finish = white South finish = red South start = green Normally, black is hot, white & red is the series link and green is ground. For conversation purposes, it's convenient to have a point of reference. Choosing Seymour Duncan colors and their standard (local) series wiring for a HB is a good starting point. I understand you can wire the humbucker "inside out", which if I'm correct means: White = hot Black & green = series link Red = ground First of all, is this correct? The term 'inside out' is poorly defined when it comes to HB wiring. I've seen different variations on this for varying purposes. Which one is 'correct' is a matter of opinion. That said, the more common variant I've see is: Red = Hot Green & Black = Series Link White = Ground We can circle back to that later if you like. For now, lets focus on the variation you defined. Second, my main question: Will wiring a humbucker "inside out", change it's phase relative to another pickup, or the hum-cancelling with another split humbucker? Cheers! Niklas If you have two HBs, one is wired 'normally', and one is wired in the variation you described: The pickups will be out of phase with each other. (regardless if either or both are split or full) Whether or not the split pickups will hum-cancel, depend on which coil is in-play when split. If both HBs are split to the North coil, they will hum-cancel. If both HBs are split to the South coil, they will hum-cancel. If one is split to the North coil and the other split to the South coil, they will not hum-cancel. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 20, 2019 22:27:57 GMT -5
Yeah, the way the OP described is actually both inside out and upside down and therefor out of phase from where it originally was.
When we have two HBs which when wired normally are in phase, and we want to be able to cut a coil from each and have them combine to be humcancelling, we generally have to cut each to a different coil. We can accomplish that by shorting the series link down to ground on one and up to hot on the other, but that “up to hot” thing freaks people out and actually may end up a little noisier. So instead, you can restack the coils on one of them so that you can short downward on both but get opposite coils.
I’ve never really like calling that “inside out” wiring because it leads to exactly this kind of confusion. The important part isn’t really the moving the inside wires to the outside, it’s about swapping the two coils without flipping either of them.
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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 21, 2019 5:16:55 GMT -5
reTrEaD and ashcatlt , thanks for the warm welcome  The reason I'm using Duncan colours, and asking these questions, is that I'm putting new Suhr pickups in both my Suhrs, and will rewire them both in a semi-advanced fashion. I actually have drawn schematics over both, but I'm still trying to find easier ways to achieve what I want. I will post them in new review threads when I have tidied them up. I thought using white for hot and red for ground seemed wrong regarding the phase, thanks for clarifying! Anyway, again using Duncan colours on a 2 humbucker guitar: Neck: Screw coil is north, slug is south Bridge: Slug coil is north, screw is south. This is standard on Suhr guitars. One position on the 5-way is inside coils, which is hum-cancelling: Neck: Red to hot, green to ground. Bridge: Black to hot, white to ground. Noob question: Am I right to assume that if running the neck like this to split it to the inside coil, the only way to split the bridge to be in phase and hum-cancelling is the way described? Flipping black and white would reverse the phase as far as I can gather.
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 21, 2019 8:17:02 GMT -5
i missed the upside down part
if you're just looking to split tho the inside coil of the neck pickup, why not just rotate the pickup 180 degrees? no fonky nonstandard wiring to remember, everything in phase by default
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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 21, 2019 8:43:15 GMT -5
i missed the upside down part if you're just looking to split tho the inside coil of the neck pickup, why not just rotate the pickup 180 degrees? no fonky nonstandard wiring to remember, everything in phase by default That's not quite what I'm going to do. I'm trying to find other ways to a somewhat complicated wiring of a guitar with 2 humbuckers, superswitch, either a 3 or 4pdt mini toggle and the Suhr SSCII system. I'm mainly just trying to get some confirmation of how some functions actually work, rather than just going by my assumptions (I'm self taught when it comes to guitar wiring, which means I might have gaps in my knowledge). |
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 21, 2019 9:07:47 GMT -5
yikes lots of switching
what are your desired combinations?
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 21, 2019 9:23:17 GMT -5
reTrEaD and ashcatlt , thanks for the warm welcome The reason I'm using Duncan colours, and asking these questions, is that I'm putting new Suhr pickups in both my Suhrs, and will rewire them both in a semi-advanced fashion. I actually have drawn schematics over both, but I'm still trying to find easier ways to achieve what I want. I will post them in new review threads when I have tidied them up. I thought using white for hot and red for ground seemed wrong regarding the phase, thanks for clarifying! Anyway, again using Duncan colours on a 2 humbucker guitar: Neck: Screw coil is north, slug is south
Bridge: Slug coil is north, screw is south.This is standard on Suhr guitars. One position on the 5-way is inside coils, which is hum-cancelling: Neck: Red to hot, green to ground. Bridge: Black to hot, white to ground. Noob question: Am I right to assume that if running the neck like this to split it to the inside coil, the only way to split the bridge to be in phase and hum-cancelling is the way described? Flipping black and white would reverse the phase as far as I can gather. That changes everything. We need to know more about those pickups. It sounds like *maybe* they're using SD colors but the magnet in the Neck pickup is flipped. In that case, the polarity of the windings (for the coils in the neck pickup) will need to be exchanged. It seems the wiring you suggested: White = hot
Black & green = series link
Red = ground Might be correct for the Neck pickup. |
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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 21, 2019 12:12:40 GMT -5
reTrEaD and ashcatlt , thanks for the warm welcome The reason I'm using Duncan colours, and asking these questions, is that I'm putting new Suhr pickups in both my Suhrs, and will rewire them both in a semi-advanced fashion. I actually have drawn schematics over both, but I'm still trying to find easier ways to achieve what I want. I will post them in new review threads when I have tidied them up. I thought using white for hot and red for ground seemed wrong regarding the phase, thanks for clarifying! Anyway, again using Duncan colours on a 2 humbucker guitar: Neck: Screw coil is north, slug is south
Bridge: Slug coil is north, screw is south.This is standard on Suhr guitars. One position on the 5-way is inside coils, which is hum-cancelling: Neck: Red to hot, green to ground. Bridge: Black to hot, white to ground. Noob question: Am I right to assume that if running the neck like this to split it to the inside coil, the only way to split the bridge to be in phase and hum-cancelling is the way described? Flipping black and white would reverse the phase as far as I can gather. That changes everything. We need to know more about those pickups. It sounds like *maybe* they're using SD colors but the magnet in the Neck pickup is flipped. In that case, the polarity of the windings (for the coils in the neck pickup) will need to be exchanged. It seems the wiring you suggested: White = hot
Black & green = series link
Red = ground Might be correct for the Neck pickup. Ah, sorry for the confusion. Yes, the neck pickup is flipped magnetically. So polarity-wise: Bridge: North = slug coil, south = screw coil Neck: North = screw coil, south = slug coil So both coils closest to the neck from each pickup share the same polarity. Otherwise, the combination inside coils in parallell or outside coils in parallel wouldn't work. Also, the SSCII (silent single coil system) only works with north polarity coils. And as I wrote previously, this wiring is in phase and noise cancelling: Neck: Red to hot, green to ground. Bridge: Black to hot, white to ground. Cheers Niklas |
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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 21, 2019 12:15:02 GMT -5
yikes lots of switching what are your desired combinations? I'll tell later I'm going to create separate threads for both my Suhrs after I tidy up my own schematics. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 21, 2019 13:15:48 GMT -5
Noob question: Am I right to assume that if running the neck like this to split it to the inside coil, the only way to split the bridge to be in phase and hum-cancelling is the way described? Flipping black and white would reverse the phase as far as I can gather. Once you’ve chosen the wiring direction and magnetic polarity for one, there is only one option for the W and P of the other if you want to maintain hum cancelling. Yes flipping black and white would be OoP with regard to string signal and in phase for noise. Basically the noisiest (S/N-wise) combination you can find. So yeah if Red is hot on one then Black must be hot on the other. Like I said, though, there’s a few ways to actually wire a switch to do that, depending on what else is happening. |
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Post by guitarnerdswe on Dec 22, 2019 5:23:33 GMT -5
Noob question: Am I right to assume that if running the neck like this to split it to the inside coil, the only way to split the bridge to be in phase and hum-cancelling is the way described? Flipping black and white would reverse the phase as far as I can gather. Once you’ve chosen the wiring direction and magnetic polarity for one, there is only one option for the W and P of the other if you want to maintain hum cancelling. Yes flipping black and white would be OoP with regard to string signal and in phase for noise. Basically the noisiest (S/N-wise) combination you can find. So yeah if Red is hot on one then Black must be hot on the other. Like I said, though, there’s a few ways to actually wire a switch to do that, depending on what else is happening. Thanks for the reply! I think I know have enough to tidy up my schematic and post it |
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to Guitarnuts2
The reason I'm using Duncan colours, and asking these questions, is that I'm putting new Suhr pickups in both my Suhrs, and will rewire them both in a semi-advanced fashion. I actually have drawn schematics over both, but I'm still trying to find easier ways to achieve what I want. I will post them in new review threads when I have tidied them up.